November 09 - rolling, laughing and cutting teeth ... but us mama's are still not getting sleep!!

[scarlotti]

New thread for us

Laugs - Address?

hobnob that is a lovely image. It is how DS would be if he is on his front. that gorgeous happy content baby look, fingers in mouth, relaxed. Right now he sleeps, but it is more because he has no choice. He does not look relaxed, never has, and has spent much of his life on my chest as that is his happiest spot, arms hanging down my side. Great for him, not so great for me who has spent a lot of time sleeping in an upright position .

Right, off to bed, night night all, hope you all sleep well xx

i mean never has looked relaxed on his back, not generally, he is a chilled out happy boy!

Scarlotti there is a cheap baby swimming class in Peacehaven I heard about at the seventh circle of hell baby group I went to last week.

snort at you having to wear a swim cap, oh poor, glam misssese

@ raggie - meow!!

Pavlov poor little lamb I hope the GP is of some use, he deserves to be comfortable, and he doesn't sound it. Must be so horrible for you to see

I'm just jealous of how gorge misssese looked at our meet up. And in FB pics.

I've been on holiday and eaten too much cake ok?

raggie so was I (jealous that was) but of both you and misssese!!!
Far too young and glamorous mummies the pair of you!

Totally agree with Scarlotti

Though saying that you're all stunning - and have the most beautiful babies

Phew I'm glad I can't make the meet ups!

raggie I loved Brooklyn. What did you think? But I finished it so quickly, I wish there had been more to it. I suppose the best books leave you wanting more though.

Ninja totally forgot, sorry, will send it now!

Scarlotti sorry I didn't reply yesterday. I see what you mean about feeling hypocritical going to relate but I think it might be asking a bit much of DH to remain amicable until June if you tell him now (assuming he doesn't feel the same).

SirBoob Dh and I used to live in a council flat and the forms were no trouble at all. The only bit I remember being a pain was having to write all your previous addresses for the last 5 years and get ex-landlords to approve you - but obviously you won't have that problem.

Missesse It does sound like she's ready. It'll be interesting to see how many of us 'make it' to 6 months before weaning. Last time around I didn't know anyone who did. I know the guidelines are written with the best intentions, but I also think that people are desperate to do the best by their child and get really stressed at feeling like they're breaking the rules. But if the rule seems to go against instinct...?

So, all you co-sleepers... James slept in with me for the last bit of the night for the first time. He started feeding at 4.40 and was still latched on and sucking when I woke up at 6.40. Is this what normally happens? Now he seems to be hungry again, so is it more likely he wasn't actually getting any milk, just having a suck?

Laugs Ioan can be latched on for a long time sometimes, or can de-latch and re-latch whilst I'm sleeping! It does sound like James was comfort sucking - maybe because of the novely of being able to? We co-sleep from the first night time feed which is normally around 3:30am. I find I'm much more rested this way as I drop off again while he's feeding and he then doesn't wake up again until the morning time.
Re dh, that's what I was thinking so I'll keep shtum for a while. Am going to get some legal advice so I know where I stand with everything, and will make sure I keep saying in relate that things are not good between us so there's no mixed messages. I think he's got his head in the sand - I made some comment at the weekend about us having issues, and he said in a surprised tone 'do you think we have issues?'

Morning all,

sirboob agree with others, your mum is well out of order and not meaning to sound ott but if she had driven off with Bryn in the car wouldn't that be kidnapping? Sorry you had to go through that.

scarlotti good luck with the legal advice, when are your dd's exams over?

Millie doesn't seem to want to nap much anymore, she has a 20 min nap in the morning, 20-40 mins after lunch if I am lucky and maybe 10 mins in late afternoon when she falls asleep on the boob. If I put her in her cot she wakes up. Does this sound right? She goes to bed at 7.30ish and wakes 2 or 3 times in the night to feed but then sleeps in until about 8am. She is so different to ds when he was a baby, I feel like a first time mother all over again!

She has also developed a fine set of lungs and will scream and scream when she is tired. On a positive note though she has started saying dada! She's not even 6 months yet! I get the feeling that she is going to be a chatterbox like her nanny!

laugs I really enjoyed Brooklyn too and I know what you mean about wanting more. I wanted to go back to NYC with Eilis and see what happened! I sped-read the last part because had to give it back and because it was so tense about what she was going to do. I thought it was a good end, except for wishing it carried on...if that makes sense!

One Day looks good, think I'll get it from the library next time I visit!

helips, we get lots of wawa and dada too. So cute. Well actually she rather shouts it, doesn't know how to turn the volume down
I read that at this age they sleep 14,5 hours as an average, some sleep much more some much less. And if the baby is otherwise developping fine, it's ok. Paula is under the average too (and unfortunately it seems enough for her ) At the moment we get 11 hours at night (I do not count the wakings at night) and during the day it varies between 3 to 5 naps, normally only 35 min long. The last week she had usually one longer one but only if we are out in the pram. So that doesn't really help me to get things done.
So I'd say she gets about 13 hours in total.

raggie exactly that, I wanted to go with her! For about the last quarter I was yelling 'No!' at every decision Eilis made (or didn't make). I think that character will stay with me for a long time. I can't believe she's not real actually

One Day was really good, but I think if I was a bit older (early 40s say) I'd love it. It really captures the times of the late 80s- today.

helips dd's exams are over at the end of June, so not a million miles away.
We average around 14.5 hours sleep here too. 11ish at night and then the other 3.5 in naps on a good day. I've started to actively try and increase his lunchtime nap and it seems to be working. It also seems to help him sleep better at night and be much cheerier in the afternoon.
Like ursi, I wasn't getting anything done in the 30 min catnaps.

It's so sunny here today - just done a walk to the local shop to get the longer nap going and it's just glorious!!

gales and heavy showers here, verging on wintry.

I am at a loss with naps. Reuben just wont nap. Please talk to me about your nap routines please, especially those who are not yet weaning and are still bf'ing. He is just not sleeping for more than 20 mins, unless he is on the boob. He used to have a good pattern, sleep at about 10am or so, for an hour or so, then about 1pm, then maybe another short nap at about 4pm, now. He power naps when he feeds at about 10am, then won't settle. Today I managed to get him to sleep after milk, instead of while feeding, by swaddling him and shh'ing him and he slept for the grand sum of 15 mins. DH has just taken him out in the car for a drive. As soon as he brought him into the front room Reuben was grinning at DD . It is the same at night too. He is sleeping for 2 hours most at a time. I managed to get him back to sleep by shh'ing and bouncing him up and down gently at god knows what time last night, after a million wake ups. He is refusing to do an sleep unless attached to me.

I have the no-cry sleep book but no time to read it as I am constantly dealing with DD and DS atm, when on earth am i going to get past the 'make a diary' bit?!

We have just got a 1 hour 45 min nap! Don't ask me how this happened. Well, ok, it was on me and I didn't dare putting her down.
pavlov, she is usually sleeping in her basket for 35 min but we have tried this many times.
I'm now wondering if I should atm just do everything I can to increase the lunch time nap which seems to go rather well if it starts around 1. Once she is used to have a longer nap I could possibly start again to get her sleeping on her own, either in the much too small basket or in the cot.
I'm also quite sure that I have to continue the basket sleeping for the short naps to make sure she can sleep on her own at night too.
Usually, I try not to bf her to make her sleeping but holding and rocking (which goes along with crying unfortunately.) Oh, I just realise this long nap was after a feed. I hope there is no connection as I really don't want her going back to needing the breast to fall asleep.
In the evening I still bf as a last thing and she falls asleep on the breast. I read in many books that this is bad for sleeping through as they can not go back to sleep on their own if they wake up at night.
So, as soon as we have the latest problem more or less sorted (refusing the cot), I'm going to work on that. I'm already trying sometimes to latch her off just before she falls asleep and sometimes she can do that last bit just on my shoulder.
I'm thinking of starting to feed her at the beginning of the evening routine and gradually shorten the last feed until eventually she won't need it anymore. I hope this will be working.

Sorry for the long and not very structured post but we are sitting on the terrasse with Paula trying to eat all sorts of plants and soil instead of the washed toys

Pav here's our typical day pre my trying to extend the lunchtime nap.
Wake anywhere between 6 and 7, feed, happy then until about 2.5 hours after waking. Nap for about 30 mins tops. Feed, happy then for another 2 hours or so. Nap for about 30 mins. Wake hungry and then a bit grumpy. Grumble on for about an hour or two before finally napping again for 30 mins, Wake and grump some more.
I am only doing tea at the moment although will be introducing lunch and breakfast over the next few days. Still bf except for dream feed at 10:30 is a bottle.
I found that he stopped being settled in his nap routine around the 4 month mark, and just got progressively worse.
Now I have the same nap routine during the day for all naps. Into the buggy, dummy in, rub his head a little. He then cuddles into the fleece cover and goes off, sometimes without a peep, sometimes with some resistance.
I also now put him down as soon as he yawns as if I waited until he grumped he was overtired and then wouldn't settle.
Now for the midday nap I put him down, note when he goes off and then 25 mins later go for a walk with him. Got that from the ncss book - it blends the sleep cycles apparently. It works is all I know - has turned 30 mins into a good hour and a half. Night time has been better too on the good nap days.
Our aim for the day is:
Wake at 7 and feed. Nap around 9:30 - 10. Feed around 10:15. Will be introducing lunch now around 11:30 then hopefully it will be nap time at 12:30 - 2. Feed at 2 ish. Feed at 4 (although I guess with lunch he might not want milk at 2 and 4) then nap around 4:30 - 5. Tea at 5. Bedtime change and feed around 6:30 for sleep by 7.
He then has a dream feed around 10:30 then wakes for a night feed around 3:30am.

Hope that helps!

For feeding to sleep problems ... carry on and feed, then rouse baby before you put them down. Not so much as to completely wake them, but enough to disassociate the feed and sleep connection. A friend of mine did this and it works after a few nights.

Bryn has put on a whole two pounds in a month. I love the fact I have a chubby little baby

Pav have problems napping here too. A few times I have cuddled him to sleep as it is the only way So I feel your pain... Hope it resolves soon. x

nap routine? Pah.

I've no idea when Isla wakes in the mornings. If she has been up and is in bed with us, she wakes when we do. She was up for an hour last night but I managed to get her back into the cot and she was awake at 8 I think. We couldn't hear her because the radio alarm (new ploy to instil some routine) I'd been ignoring for 30 mins was drowning out the monitor . She sometimes naps during the morning if the wind is blowing in the right direction, she is in the pram at the correct time of her choosing and the gods are smiling. That being the case, it can be 10 mins to two hours long, usually inversely proportionally related to how much you need her to sleep. We are finding that she can do a long nap in the afternoon more often than not this week. It's all got better since the tummy sleeping. I had a breakthrough last week when I managed to get her to drop of whilst rubbing her back and making womb noises (the things you do ) rather than feeding her to sleep. She might be getting wise to it though. No particular time, just when she looks tired and when interruptions have stopped. Today she fed to sleep after lunch. MIL came round to take DD1 swimming and as they left I heard her awake and hiccuping. Just as she was getting drowsy again a neighbour called past for 40 mins so she smiled at him engagingly. Then she was full of beans. But 10 mins of back rubbing did the trick again. She did stir for a bit, but seems to have gone back to sleep so that's nearly 1.5 hours now which seems like a lifetime so I'm away to check on her. I doubt she'll nap again before bedtime. She gets tired and cranky at tea time but DD1 usually manages to entertain her enough so that she lasts until 6:30/7.

Flip, MIL just woke her up at 5:20. She clearly had some catching up to do...

So, i am probably going wrong in these places:

1. Letting him nap when he choses, where he choses. Ie, on me in the front room while DD plays.
2. Putting him to bed after DD. He goes to bed at 9pm or so out of convenience, sometimes it is as early as 8pm, but i think his 'window' is 7pm, but DD goes to bed by 7:30pm so it crosses over and he gets settled once she is in bed. I will need to do this earlier now.
3. Attempting to just stop the boob.

He slept for an hour after DH drove him around for a bit, and while he read I scan read the ncss book.

I am going to concentrate on

1. lengthening his naps, any way I can - as you suggested ursi.
2. Giving him a proper routine to his naps, ie change nappy, cuddles then feed.
3. Attempting to remove the boob from him gently at night, but not refusing to give it to him.
4. instilling a proper routine at bedtime.

Sound ok? A good start? DH is a bit about it, but i told him i just cannot continue as I am. I feel so so so old, skin is crap, eyes are hollow, muscles are saggy, hair is falling out, i feel weary and look like my mum (nothing wrong with that, but don't want to look 60!) I know if I can just get a couple more straight hours a night, and some time in the day to go for a swim once a week, then I will get myself back. Not expecting 10 hours straight. Two blocks of 4 or 5 would be fine (for DS, not me!). He has done it, and like you scarlotti it has just all gone to shit. hobnob i like the randomness of how you describe it. It is just like here, its all based so much on variables that I cannot figure out!

The bedtime routine wont be tonight though. DD is poorly with fever and sore throat and a funny rash thing (docs tomorrow) so she napped late this afternoon, and is now in our bed being spooked by toy story, and not at all sleepy. So, got knows when I can do any kind of routine for DS. Great idea of DHs, before he went out [grr].

I don't remember it being this hard with DD (memories are funny eh?)