Jan 2010 babies and mummies here.....can't think of funny thread title!

[crumpette]

... sorry couldn't think of a title that didn't mention how to get orange poo out of a white vest, or how to get jiggy post partum!!!

Morning all. Quick post because lots to fit in with Olivia and Percy. Percy doing good. Training hard work and needs lots of patience but do feel we are making progress each day. Biggest problem, if you can call it that, is nipping and mounting. He particularly mounts my 7 yr old DD. Apparently its a dominance thing at this age rather than sexual, so we have to sternly tell him off and crate him every time he does it so that he realises he is not the boss!

No, I haven't braved baby rice yet. Whilst I started weaning other 2 at 4 months, I did read that you shouldn't attempt to wean until 17 weeks past their DUE DATE because digestive system won't cope. As Olivia was 9 days early by c/s, I'm going to wait until then, probably 5 months actually just to be sure. But I have it in the cupboard all ready and waiting. Tick tock tick tock...

DS was fab at the Albert Hall last night as were all of the other children from the Borough of Barnet making up a full orchestra, professionally conducted by some leading names. Truly spectacular talent. Made me very very proud.

OK - enough MN'ing for the morning. Babies and puppies to take care of.
x

WMDO try's to remember at least one post...

ali ah ha, yes I was very thirsty!! Great, I can relax now.

crumpette Sounds like her has got over it though. It's just scary isn't it.

I only gave DS his first lot of vacs recently (nrly 3) and DD her first 5-1 at 4 months. I don't intend in returning for another 3 months for any more. Im not even sure if Ive done the right thing . It's been a real stress for me since DS was born.

I hope you don't mind me asking and just ignore me if you do. What's your fear? Did you think it had anything to do with your DD?

new interesting that suddenly these super safe vaccines can be a problem when it suits! Whooping cough is something I had as a kid (I had a seizure apparently after measles jag so wasn't allowed whooping cough jag)and it was becoming a mild illness before the vac came out . I then caught it at around 4-5 years old. It was, well, an annoying cough that lasted a while.
Funny thing too. I don't EVER get chest infections. Even when everyone I live with has one, and my mum is prone to loads of them, I never ever catch them. Very clever thing the natural immune system.

They really are playing with god (not that im religious)with the amount of vaccines now. It doesn't make sense to muck around so much with the very clever human immune system. Alright if the child has problems that these illnesses may effect them badly but every healthy child?

Im just so scared of them. Mainly all the alluminium in them now.
Im still swithering about giving DS men C. Now that he hasn't had any, he only needs one. The boosters only work until they are one or something. God knows what my HV was talking about.

I feel scared at the thought of them catching something like that then I think, wait a minute, we didn't have all of them, neither did our mums generation or our grans and we all survived. What to do though, I don't know.

I have not been dieting for a few weeks now and seem to be getting away with it (so far). Im infact a greedy greedy mare.
My biggest problem just now is I have on average 3 days with folk round for lunch.
I always feel I have to have 'nice' stuff for them coming and they in turn bring munchies too.

This is because with Olivia's feeds I don't want to go out. It looks like Im trying to force feed her with the back arching thing and have already had a few strange stares and comments about her 'maybe not being hungry' !

On that front, grrrrr. Twice again last night. Fecking twice. Has been feeding once for oooh, 2 months now. Im positive she is more unsettled rather than hungry TBH. BUT, it's just easier isn't it, to give in and feed her. .

I have started making the effort to express and get DH to give her a bottle and the bottle is fine, will take no bother.
I added 40mls of formula last night and will do 50mls tonight. I wondered if the formula was the reason for her being unsettled. I still think she may have a dairy intollerence but can't do that diet again while Im so run down (excuses excuses)!

CTFN did you give DD any baby rice? If so how did it go? Hope you are getting a bit peace from Percy?

Can I wait another 2 weeks to give her baby rice, hmmm. It's so tempting but she'd be 5 months by then and thats what age DS was. I don't know why the hell that matters but it seemed a good age, no fussiness just num num num!

oops, that was mega long and a right rant!

sock My HV hasn't been near either and the last time I seen her I scored 17 out of 20 for the depression score which is bad. Im much much better now as Olivia is but she wouldn't know that!

Crumpette I never gave DS any vaccs and they never bothered me at all. Infact again, I never heard from them. It was me who had a little wobble and decided to start some.

Hey! I'm feeling better today CTFN well done to your DS!!!!

lottie great news that they will lower their fee, a lot of agents are quite desperate for custom at the moment and anyway the fees they charge are quite ridiculous! Sorry about Juliet being grouchy, I will go with Jardins and agree with the 2 day rule [hopeful]

Good to hear it's not only me that's being HV-stalked, I was being a bit paranoid I guess (just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean...etc) but yeah I have heard that HVs only really visit the once after the birth and then do an 8month check at the clinic and that's it, so was feeling slightly under the spotlight! (for what!? argh??)

WMDO I will happily share my concerns about vaccines, but I do not wish to make anyone upset or angry at all. The last time I mentioned vaccines I was as close to shouted at as you can get online and I asked for my posts to be deleted. Re my DD, no it didn't have anything to do with her illness. She didn't have any jabs (I know I know alarm bells) BUT she was perfectly healthy for so long, and then when I was discussing it all with a top paed consultant, lecturer and author and general leading dr in her london hospital- he said to me 'you've got a very comprehensive list of questions, but I'm surprised you don't mention vaccines in here' and I said 'no, I didn't consider that relevant, nothing the jabs may have prevented could have ever caused this' and he said 'youre absolutely right, vaccines are not remotely relevant to her illness and you did the right thing anyway I haven't had my children vaccinated' so that rather speaks for itself, but it is firmly off-the-record.
I'm happy to post my views but I don't want to upset anyone as everyone's babies have already had their jabs and they are fine and I'm sure will be fine, but er yes I won't be consenting to the standard immunisation plan, ever. I could post some links later on perhaps? It's so hard for parents because there is such a strong agenda to push them and you are of course only trying to keep your child healthy and do what is right for your baby so the natural choice is to believe what you are told as you never ever want your baby to be ill but my personal opinion is that vaccines are the snake oil of modern medicine. I do however think there aare times when I would consider jabs appropriate- taking baby backpacking across darfur, perhaps, may warrant something, but not here and not so young.

Crumpette - I am certain that noone on this thread will shout at you for your views on vaccinations. Everyone has to consider their options very carefully and it seems that you have done just that. It's a matter of personal choice.

WMDO - rant allowed .

Right, puppy fed, played with, bit more training done. Olivia fed, played with. Have dinner to prepare but seriously thinking about watching the end of a movie I started about a week ago ....

so i managed to write a post yesterday, only for windows to decide that it was a great point in time to restart the 'puter...bloody thing! now i only have time to writea quickie.

crumpette, it's entirely your choice whether to vacc your child. there are risks with them and risks without. i wouldn't have bothered with them, but dh is a worrier and wanted them done. as far as i'm concerned having a paranoid father is more detrimental than the vacc, so he had them.

no hv here since 4wk intro.

gotta go squirming lo.

FANFARE! da da da da da da DAHHHHH! I just gave Olivia 3 teaspoons of baby rice. Looks like she wants more but will quit while I'm ahead. Think that's enough for the first time. Will see how she is later and then perhaps try some more tomorrow. Clearly I couldn't wait one more week .

Currently thinking I can take on the world as DH has offered to do the next 3 night feeds for me so I can get some much needed sleep .

ctofn Oooooohhhhhhhhh let me know how she is tonight I might give it a try for Jacob's breakfast

ctfn oh im jealous. Olivia was 3 weeks and 1 day early soooo I could give her rice on wednesday then!!

She grabbed my sandwich out my hand and got quite annoyed when I removed it from her vice like grip today. I didn't think a ham and coleslaw sandwich was then best thing to start with!

crumpette I gave DS & DD 5-1 jabs and im worried I did the wrong thing now. So hard. I think I will finish DS's as that will be all 3 but what is the point in doing DD's? It's not like she is going to be digging in dirt anytime soon! As for the rest, The only ones that now niggle are Mumps for DS and Rubella for DD. I know a guy who cant have children because he caught mumps as a teenager . In our parents day that was unheard of as it was all obtained naturally and you had life long immunity by catching it as a child.

No chance our DS's are going to catch it as a child so what do we do? What are you thinking crumpette? Do you think you will get any singular ones privately of just go for MMR or neither.
(If anyone shouts us down we will just shut up )

Lottie - for me it's really a case of I did it with the other 2 and life got better because of it. They slept better (at night) and developed well. That being said, I don't know what would have happened if I hadn't weaned them when I did .

Olivia is grabbing hold of things now and putting teething rings in her mouth and looking very pleased with herself, so I thought I'd give it a go, really in the hope of a full night's sleep. Also, thicker consistency foods are supposed to help with reflux, so I'm thinking it will keep the sickness at bay .

I guess I'm just a little bit old school and 7 years ago it was said to wean at 4 months. I can't see why it's so bad now to wean them before 6 months - particularly when they are on formula and not exclusively BF. Still, we'll see how it goes. I don't intend to rush it. If she's not ready and doesn't react well, we'll just wait a bit.

Lottie - for me it's really a case of I did it with the other 2 and life got better because of it. They slept better (at night) and developed well. That being said, I don't know what would have happened if I hadn't weaned them when I did .

Olivia is grabbing hold of things now and putting teething rings in her mouth and looking very pleased with herself, so I thought I'd give it a go, really in the hope of a full night's sleep. Also, thicker consistency foods are supposed to help with reflux, so I'm thinking it will keep the sickness at bay .

I guess I'm just a little bit old school and 7 years ago it was said to wean at 4 months. I can't see why it's so bad now to wean them before 6 months - particularly when they are on formula and not exclusively BF. Still, we'll see how it goes. I don't intend to rush it. If she's not ready and doesn't react well, we'll just wait a bit.

lottie same reason for me really when Ds1 was a baby 4 months was the norm. I was hoping weaning Jacob would help with the reflux as the thicker the food its got more chance of staying down (I hope)

I've been reading alot of weaning threads and there are studies being done that are saying that weaning should be done at 4-6 months and I'm sure it mentions that since weaning was put back to 6 months there has been an increase of allergies.

I don't know how much of it is true as I haven't done any research myself.

Will speak to Jacob's consultant on Wednesday and see what he recomends.

well done Olivia!!! I think I was weaned at 3 months and I'm alright (bit chubby)

Like I said I accidentally started weaning DD at 5 months with organic mango sorbet and then rice and solids from 6. It's OK when you think they are ready, in my book. I won't be weaning DS until 6 months due to the infinite mess and patience required
I'm cerainly no CTFN supermummy

lottie- I would recommend a certain brand of organic banana baby porridge that DD adored, once the rice stage is achieved, I will try to remember which brand it was as it was soo lovely. Will try to engage brain!

MMR- no, definitely not. Wakefield was not ever discredited in terms of science but in terms of how he obtained his samples. The science still stands, very very firmly under scrutiny. You can get individual mumps vaccines and rubella and measles in many clinics now across the country, as opposed to having them all together, but I personally doubt that measles would be necessary or even rubella.

readare we poisoning our kids?

and before you get bored with the rest, please take a very quick look here

here is some info and more and here is one mum's tale from the US

myths of the industry and maybe peruse this and here's a guy who worked making vaccines. Oh there's so much I could say but I would get into serious trouble- All I want is for people to be able to make an informed choice for their children, and sadly that is virtually impossible at the moment and so everyone gets their kids vaccinated believing it to be the best thing for their health. Anything that is made from formaldehyde, mercury, aborted human foetal tissue, aluminium, monkey cells, sheep blood, pig blood, chick embryos, calf cells, countless chemicals, live viruses and shocking accidental contaminants and can cause: SIDS, autism, brain damage, numerous neuro disorders, irreversible central nervous system damage, seizures, cancer, bowel disorders, multi organ failure, liver disorder, kidney disease, respiratory infections, anaphylaxis, guillain barre syndrome, ear problems and death..is not worth taking a risk on in my book.

Read this for why I said it's today's 'snake oil'

NB readership limited to WMDO- I do not post this intended to offend anyone or cause any sort of reaction, I am merely expressing an opinion. If you've had your babies vaccinated that's fine and you're good parents doing the best thing you think you can do for your children, as after all nobody will want their children to get sick. Sadly it's all too easy to be misled as profit, large companies and government cost cutting and agenda take over from real health care

WMDO fwiw I think you've done the right thing leaving it until Evan was older. I personally intend to give DS some (very few) jabs, believe it or not, but not until he is bigger (roughly 4 maybe before he goes to school, and from a private clinic) and you do not need to conform to the schedule for Olivia from now on if you choose not to- but it has to be choice, not because you are guilted into doing the right thing by people who think doctors know best all the time. It's natural to worry as a parent and I hope I haven't added to anyone's concerns, as we all want to protect our babies, but I fear that we have already seen on the thread that even New's doctors told her not to give Jack the next jabs for fear of the side effects.

oh and by the way I had all the jabs going and was in the trial area for MMR and I'm clearly OK, so I'm not trying to spread doom and gloom (but others are not OK)

lottie I started with sorbet!! I think starting with some EBM mixed with a small amount of baby rice is good because it tastes of your milk, so baby will definitely like the taste and will experiment with the texture and swallowing it. Then move on to anything really, mushed up bananas were a fav of DD's before she refused spoons

wow everyone - its nuts to hear the talk of weaning already but time has gone very quickly!
ahhhh Percy - mounting lol xxxxx
watching "Dog whisperer"
reflux is so hard to deal with DD15 had that and constantly had to tell people dont pick her up ohhh boy watch out this time they was covered in baby milk straight back up after a fed!tus time not so bad but constantly have a bib on him and then struggle to take it off when he falls asleep with it on!
DD9 has had a bad cough for now 3 weeks stoped her swimming twice, got sent home for bad cough and shes been complaining off feeling hot and headache, when took her gp last week was told its a viral infection and to give her calpol at first then take antibotics if no change, ermmm no change infact worse so called gp to be given and appt for this wed????????? now DS5 has got cough and so have i so i discoverd today coughing my dear throat out! ts so sore right now! so feeling paranoid for DS5 brought home the BCG form home and now worried about whooping cough!!!!!!!! im scared and dont know wot to do, didnt want to give them the BCG so young and to know they are rolling it out for babies now, wanted to avoid it for as long as possible.
HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just got up at 4am to seek night nurse and hopefully feel better,whole house fast asleep.

Morning lovely ladies. Well, after the baby rice experiment, Olivia wasn't too interested in the rest of her bottle at 4.30pm, didn't take much at 7.00pm and went straight off to sleep. Fed her at 9.15pm and then gave a dream feed at 11.15pm. She woke at 3.15, I gave her some cooled boiled water and reinserted dummy. Had a lot of to-ing and fro-ing with the dummy but no more milk until just now at 7.00am feed. Result. I think a few nights of this and we may crack it. She CAN do it.

However, Percy heard me up at 3ish and continued to bark and whine until I finally came down to him at 5.45 this morning. Went outside, did his business, then plonked on his comfy bed in his playpen, now sound asleep. Grrrrrr.

ctfn that sounds a hellish night >hugs.

crumpette >WMDO wearing a rose and reading the Scotsman, side steps in, lifts briefcase and scurries off into the darkness of an alleyway....lol

have read the first few. (no time this morning)Shitting pants now! Nothing I haven't seen before so far but reminds me why I worried.

Out of interest, what ones ARE you getting?

I just kept worrying about DS. He has taken up an obsession with mud as all boys probably do (and girls no doubt). He has been attacked by the cat twice, cut his hand, said nothing and carried on playing in mud and of course, eaten it !

I kept worrying about tetanus so decided just to get the (head over a barrell) 5-1.

I got it for DD too as the Paed's at the hospital talked me round to vaccinating them telling me the incidence of meningitis and other preventable illness had went up because of stupid mothers like me (not quite what they said but what they meant).
Feeling very anxious as all new mums do I just thought for god sake, stop the constant worry and get it done.

Now im more worried!

Im now resorted to this jibbering wreck not knowing what im doing. (not because of you, ive been like this since I done it).

I have started them now, therefore mucked about with natural immunity. Should I now complete the 5-1's now that ive started?

crumpette tell me what to do i give in!

Morning everyone! I started a post one morning last week and then got side tracked for a whole day and just went to bed!

Glad to see that Nico is not the only one unsettled. For the past week, the 1am/ 4am feeds are well and truely back. Although I do plan to hold out on weaning until at least 20 weeks (was when I started DS). Nico is not that ravenous yet, after 7pm feed, is still going 6 hours, so am going to hold out a while longer.

Re. the vaccinations, it is like everything else parenthood related, a personal decision. And everyone has to to do what they think is right for their DC's. Crumpette - I very much doubt that anyone is going to shout you down for your thoughts on the matter.
Personally - DS1 has had all the vaccinations, and DS2 will also get them. I looked at the single vaccine and didnt go for them because one of them was out of stock for the forseeable future. When I read up on the possible risks of catching one of the diseases they vaccinate against, was a non brainer for me.

CTFN - you are so brave throwing a puppy into the mix. I think I would go hide somewhere for a very long time if a puppy joined in the melee! DS1 is currently pushing a lot of boundaries, but we have managed to get him totally potty trained in the last month.

Lottie and Jardin - hope that you are both feeling a little less overwhelmed. I definitely agree with the others that a little each day may help. I am thinking that I have bitten off more than I can chew, having sorted the garden and done a spring clean indoors, am now planning to paint the downstairs! Am rethinking that in light of the last week of sleeplessness, but want to make the most of my maternity leave. DH thinks I am a loon.

Ali - how is Jacob doing?

New - how are you feeling? Are you ok? Please come back and post!

Right, gotta run, DS1 just told me his willy is broken. Will catch up on other posts later.

WMDO - re your post on eating mud. I apparently ate mud for years when young. . My mum took me to the GP who said not to worry. Then she watched me like a hawk and tried to stop me, but apparently I found a way to eat some mud on a daily basis. . The joke in my family now is that there must have been some miracle grow in the soil I ate, as I zoomed up to 5' 9'' in my teens.

So back to my point, I did it and am well and truely fine.

WMDO I'm wary of advising you on what to do, as it has to be your choice, and I am not in a position to advise you. But I can ask my 'sources' for their thoughts. What I have heard before is that incidence of sids, seizures etc peak at the age of each of the jabs, so personally I wouldn't complete the course for Olivia- I might for Evan though because he is so much bigger, but the rate of autism for example (and I think I left off asthma, diabetes, auto-immune diseases and other things from my rant above) is now a shocking 1 in 58. My own intention is to wait until DS is older- more like Evan's age, when he is more likely to be coming into contact with anything, and then properly assess what he needs, depending on where I live etc. here is a clinic website with some information you may find helpful, and they may be able to answer your question about continuing courses you have begun. They're expensive to go and visit but the site has info on it.

Also re the meningitis etc- I personally met a few families in just a couple of months at Kings whose babies had meningitis, but who had had the full course of vaccines. I asked because I was quite certain had they been vaccinated they would not have got it, but was shocked when they all said yes we had all the jabs. Go figure. You may be interested to know that in the Merck, Sharp and Dohme Ltd product information for HIB vaccine, it states ?Cases of Haemophilus B disease may occur in the weeks after vaccination?, and in Lederle Hibtiter information sheet, ?Cases of HIB disease, although rare, may occur after vaccination.? This is known as ?provocation disease?, i.e. disease caused by vaccine. Out of 443 Hib infections studied, 83% had received the vaccine.see here as well and mumps

It's just dangerous to meddle in this way with the natural immune system- vaccinations frequently don't work, and cause many other things that could be worse for health. Lowering rates of disease correlate completely with improved standard of living, not with vaccination programs- see here and infant mortality rates have fallen in areas with the lowest vaccination rate, scarily- like New Zealand and India. the 5-in1 jab frankly scares me, the manufacturers info is not pretty when you read the contraindications.

I'm sorry I did bite my tongue typing hand when I read your posts about deciding to immunise them because I do not want to upset anybody and you had considered your options.I was trying to keep very 'schtum'. I'm sure they will both be absolutely fine, but I will ask for you (a consultant with independent thought, incidentally) about continuing the course, as you sure won't get the truth from your GP x

mama2b5 I'm sure you're not asking me about BCG because there's no way in hell I'd ever get it for DS, though you are right they are trying to push it. Unless you live in a mumbai slum, is it necessary? and is it safe? I'm so sorry you are all unwell at the moment but the chance of it being tb or you getting tb unless you go around fondling badgers or bathing in other people's phlegm (ok not serious on those points) is next to zero in my opinion.

mistletoe! so good to see you! Hope DS1's willy's not too broken I was reading a post the other day and someone's DS (4) had shut their willy in a toilet seat and blood was pouring out of it- ok not relevant but seriously OUCH

I never ate mud as a child but frequently insisted on eating grass. From public parks and gardens and the school fields when I was really little. I loved it

CTFN you are indeed a brave lady taking on Percy as well, every time I read your posts I feel I have to go and sit down you exhaust me