Discussion amongst Mums with babies born in December 2008

[Veggiemummy]

Hope you all can find it, Moms title was perfect I thought.

and here comes number two...

i feel like i'm losing touch with my friends. one of them has recently conceived through first time ivf - she had a couple of hellish years of no work, no baby, no house and all of a sudden all those things have started to happen for her. i've tried to be there for her, calling to ask how she is, letting her talk, listening etc. at times i've thought she was right proper crackers, but she just needed someone to listen to her. and suddenly i'm realising she's not there for me in the same way. we were talking about bfing with a group of friends. knowing that i still feed madam, and that madam is walking, she told everyone "i think i'm going to feed until 6 months. i mean, personally, for me, i just don't really think it's, you know, ugh, to feed when they're, like already walking". i mean, ok, ok, so you're not really into the idea of breastfeeding beyond proper babydom, fine. but i felt so slighted by her comment, even though it was framed by saying "personally, for me". like when i told her that when madam wakes any time from 3.30am - 6.30am, we bring her into our bed, i feed her with the aim of her going back to sleep, even for a bit, her comment was "well, i couldn't be dealing with that". i just feel judged. i probably shouldn't, but i do.

and a couple of other friends have lives which we could never live - they have money to consider private schools, take amazing holidays, moving houses to areas we couldn't afford etc etc. suddenly this really matters to me and i can see friendships ending because we simply can't keep up. i mean, it's not like we are on the breadline - far from it, but i am doing what betty draper talked about in mad men (my latest obsession), "counting other people's money". i don't like myself for it, but i am.

i know aubi and turnip were talking a bit about their relationships with their dhs. i am feeling similar. i met dh 3 months before my mum died. i fell in love with him, just as i was losing my mum, so it was a strangely happy and dreadful time. he was so strong and took care of me and my dad - when madam arrived i suddenly saw the paranoia he has about her (inherited from his mother), the fear, the paralysis, and i did wonder where that strong man went. i love him, lots and lots, but there are times when i just want to say "oh, grow up and be a man, make a decision and stick with it". i know that is awful, but i think the heads down approach and wait for things to change is right. i am really very lucky, but i am aware i am not always that nice to him. it's tough, this marriage/partnership lark, isn't it?

oh, and ttc. i am suddenly full of despair that we won't ever have another baby. i don't think i'm ovulating (no cm to speak of) at the moment, and as i said, my cycles are loooooong and irregular, so it is super hard to pinpoint ovulation. and as sex is not as frequent as it might be, we need to pinpoint the time. i was temperature charting last time (and using acupuncture) so i could roughly tell when i was ovulating. i can't temperature chart because madam wakes at such random times, so i can't compare temperatures. i am also convinced that my weight is a bar to conceiving, but feeling very despondent about ever getting it off (thanks, SL about the running - didn't go back last week as my back was out - and haven't run now for 10 days - due back at the club tomorrow but am terrified about doing my back again). i suppose i should also completely stop bfing to restore my hormones, but then how would we get madam to go back to sleep in the mornings???

sorry for the me me me post.

must remember to post more regularly to avoid this deluge.

Oh, WG, I'm so sorry. I will post a proper reply to you tomorrow as have to go to bed now but wanted you to know I really feel for you and can identify with a lot of what you say. Hope you get a good night will assemble thoughts properly in the morning.

veggie we must have both posted it as I missed yours but I read it in my magazine here and then posted on one of the last couple of threads - it was ages ago though, but it just goes to show, great minds think alike didn't think I was going that wacko with this pregnancy!

Oh WG you don't need to keep up with friends for them to be friends, otherwise they aren't worth having as friends if you see what I mean. And that BF commenting friend sounds like she's just very insecure. I have had friends like that - they seem like your best friend when they need things from you then all of a sudden that's it. You don't need that - just take a step back from people like that for a bit and see what happens
You will get pregnant again. It feels like forever if you are actively trying, but you've done it once so chin up there! You could always have a chat to the GP about regulating your cycle etc. Can't they prescribe something for that so you don't have horrendously long cycles?
Don't continue the BF just for a few mins of extra sleep. If that's the only reason I promise - you will sort that out soon enough
Hope you feel better soon

Right, am about to head to bed and have some cheerfulness on board but have to reply to you in a vaguely incoherent manner WG re your friend. Please don't feel judged lovely. This friend has not yet had her baby, she has no idea about the reality of life with a baby. Look at how many of us your real friends are still bfing our babies in order to get either them or us to sleep. And think of all the crazy things we said before we had babies - dd was never going to watch any tv, for example. Ahem. She's been through some difficult times and is probably on that 'I've got a baby on the way and everything is perfect' cloud. I'm certain that once the baby arrives she'll be asking for your help/advice as a wise woman who know's what's what. And if she doesn't, more fool her.

You're doing what's right for you and madam, and that's all that really matters. Will reply to the rest of your post when less boozed up

Yeah - what JJ said.....

very at your boozy state JJ. I'm off to bed incredibly sober

I too have had a few sherries but I didn't want to go to bed without responding to you WG.

I really do think that some friendships wax and wane - at times you are getting a lot, at times giving a lot and getting little etc. You just need to ensure that you are not getting little most of the time! Your friend has had a tough time and is now in the new preg bubble which we were all in with our first. We know that the reality is different and she will find out. With the feeding, I have some friends with whom I will whip out a boob for M if needs be and others where I would rather whip out a tooth. If it works for you, then ignore what everyone else says, thinks, or whatever. It's your family and your choice. I thought with DD1 that I would only BF for 6 months, but fed her for 18m in the end and have been BF on and off (3 kids) for 5 years! She may change, she may not. Her choice doesn't affect how you feed Madam.

Conceiving - I had the same thing with DD1 when she was about 14 months as we were at it like rabbits but nada. I went to the lovely wholemeal GP (who BF for 3.5 years) and she sent me for bloods to see for definite if I was ovulating. I was sure I wasn't (and I was right) and she said that I should check again and if not then stop the BF as it suppresses ovulation, but that month I conceived my lovely DD2. Would you be up for a few blood tests? If you knew for definite that you weren't ov, then you could make an informed decision about BF rather than giving up without knowing for sure if you need to.

Money etc - it's hard when you see people who live a totally different lifestyle but if there is really something there you will stay in touch on mutually good terms. I have 2 great gay friends who I have known for 20 years and who are MINTED. House in SJ Wood, place in France, first class flights, mini breaks, you name it. No child care or whatever to impinge on time and cash. We just meet in places Andrew and I can afford in the evening , or they come here so the kids can run amok and confirm their status as bachelors. It can be done and you won't drift apart if it's worth being friends.

I can't do husbands as I;m not sure mine is overly impressed by me just now. Hang on in there my lovely. Things will get better. This too shall pass, as Turnip's dear mum said. We had that as a thread title a few months back when many of us were in difficulties of one sort and another. And Nanny Anne was right

Much love to you my darling.

WG I know it's hard to not feel judged because well she is judging you. It's sad that so many people believe that what we instinctively feel is right for our own babies is a open forum for them to judge. But they do and always will. I know that 2 things that I find just the best things in the world, BF & sleeping next to my boy many people find bizarre but I think when people actually speak up about it they kind of have their stuff to sprout about. I think they don't actually intend to belittle they're just having their own little soapbox moment. IYSWIM. As others have said she will (hopefully) be a bit more flexible when her baby arrives. For the record I was really quite urgh about the idea of BFing and only planned to feed until 6 months. I also never intended to have them in bed with us. Thankfully I saw sense and gave up trying to fulfill my pre concieved ideas and just went with it. Madam is lucky she has a flexible mum like you. I had to have a little 'oh just you wait' giggle to myself at her, I can't be doing that comment. I hope for her sake that her comments don't come back and bite her in the butt.

With comparisons it is a natural thing we do but it will only make you unhappy. Best to think about what you have, and from the outside looking in I think you have quite a lot. Gorgeous baby girl, talented hubby, a house in London and a lovely proper womenly body. Which brings me to another thing, from your photos on FB I can't see that you are anywhere near being too heavy to concieve. I'm not a fertility expert but my limited knowledge of this area tells me that you need to be seriously obese for that to even begin to be a problem. I don't think you are large at all, I think your quite beautiful actually.

well said Sybs.

And agree with Veggie - erm WG I've met you on more than one occasion and you are not too heavy to conceive!
How are you feeling this morning. new day, and so far no rain. Oh and come and hang with me - It'll be easy to keep up, infact you'll overtake - we just got a summons for not paying council tax

Wah! The phone ate my post! In summary:

wg: I doubt your friend is on nodding terms with reality at the moment. How any friendships last through first pgs I have no idea. Re the relationships issue, this is one area where I think there's no benefit in talking about it. Conversations that begin 'the problem with you is...' are never going to end well,". I know, I've had a few of them.

Hello from the train again,

ZJ - lovely to hear from you and to hear little ZJ is being so utterly gorgeous and clever. Sorry about your horrible cold, those lingering, draining viruses are the worst.

Veggie - glad Bruges was fun. Urgh on the multiple teeth eruptions.

JJ - on your school/house dilemma have you considered how much 2 times 13 years of private school fees will compare to the extra cost of a nice house in the right catchment area? If the school fees are less or similar, and you love your house and area, I would probably stay put and go private.

Beans - did you know Beryl before the nanny share? I mean were you friends who decided to share the nanny? Despite your phone conversation she still sound pushy and paranoid.

WG - so sorry you are feeling low. The others have given lots of great advice on your "friend". I would be tempted to have a quiet word with her about how judged you felt. That may or may not be a good idea but with my oldest friend I believe our relationship has survived because we have been very honest with each other when the other's behaviour has been out of order. It has built a real sense of trust. It wouldn't work with every friendship though, I do appreciate that.

On TTC I second Syb's suggestion of going to your GP for blood tests. I have polycystic ovaries and used not to ovulate and I remember my endocrinologist saying that there were drugs that could stimulate ovulation and regulate cycles. If you want to track your cycles at home and can't temp chart what about getting a Persona fertility monitor? They are about £100 but you could use it as a contraceptive guide for years after DC2 arrives.

Not much news here. Work is very quiet as we wait for the election. Not having much to do during the day makes me miss the girls a lot more. The situation with you-know-who at my work has continued to be v stressful and undermining. YesterdayI went to our Head of Dept to ask him whether he thought I had really done anything wrong. He was so sweet and basically told me I am 100% in the right. I felt a lot better after that!

Right, train arriving at work, xxx.

WG - try not to worry re your friend. Before I had DD I thought BFing was disgusting and had a real issue with it, even though I knew I ought to give it a go. Even all the way through pregnancy, I found it repugnant. BUT as soon as DD arrived I loved it (despite the bleeding nipples and swearing when she first latched on for the first 4 weeks!) and did it for 7 months, which was much longer than I expected to. I would say your friend is just unaware of what's coming along and I think she's going to have to alter her views completely!!! Strangely, I've slightly gone back to my phobic ways about BFing, but this time, I know it'll be resolved with newbie! It's really weird, as part of me is aware that I'll definitely be doing it and the other part is horrified. Does that make any sense??!

Re keeping up with friends with more cash, that's tough. We've got friends who are minted and they have offered to pay for us to go on holiday because "we don't have as much as them", which DH and I both find excruciatingly patronising and embarrassing. But the thing is, they mean it with all the kindness they have, which we have to remember or I don't think we'd be mates with them!! But they are lovely and we just know we'll never be able to match them, so look forward to going to stay in their new enormous mansion when they buy it!!!

I've got friends who are real takers too - emotionally. I fell out with one of my best mates because when I was heavily pregnant with DD, she was emailing me and ringing me constantly about her ex who she'd split up with over a year earlier. I felt like I had given her all I could and she never listened to a word of advice and it was so draining. In the end, I had to tell her that I had to deal with my own family and impending baby and that perhaps it would be wise for her to seek counselling as there was nothing further I could do/say to help her. She replied by saying she didn't think we had much in common these days anyway!!! We're back on full speaking terms now, but it did take about a year before either of us were willing to forgive!!

Aubs - I didn't know Beryl pre nannyshare, but she did seem very nice, if a little precious. But I thought that might fade as her daughter got older! How wrong could I be!! Hee hee. I think she's horrified I shop at Asda, not Waitrose!!! I collected DD the other day from their house early because I'd been on an antenatal appointment and Izz was being fed a petit filous, which she loves and Barbara (their DD, who is gorgeous - and name changed!) was being fed a Plum organic fromage frais. I asked the nanny why DD wasn't having one of them and apparently Beryl had said to use the petit filous on Izzy because they've got sugar in! Hahahah! I had to laugh really! I don't mind because I give Izzy petit filous myself, and when Barbara is at our house, she has to have them, or muller little stars or yeo valley - all of which have sugar in!!! Hee hee!

xx

Beans I'm a little horrified that Beryl did that. Maybe you should say you've been to the GP about 'all her illnesses' and they did some blood tests and found out she is having too much sugar, and act really baffled and say you don't know how because you use all non sugar baby stuff, he he.

Didn't you mention that friend who took a lot emotionally in the antenatal thread?

I did, Veggie - good memory skills! how have you retained them? I have none left at all! - I'm so impressed!!!

I love that idea about the sugar - hee hee! Would be fun.

I'm wearing a new shirt my mum bought me from Asda. It's not a maternity one, but it's nice and baggy. But it is made of quite nylony material, so am anticipating much body odour later today. I don't mind, but not sure my colleagues will be so ambivalent! ha!

Aubi is that the finance director? Should I come to your work and 'sort em out'? The girls and I can form a posse!

WG I was thinking about your friend you helped and who is now being a bit judgy. Sometimes people who help friends when they are at their low point get a bit shunned when things improve because that friend has seen their vulnerabilities and reminds them of those dark days. If the friendship is worth the effort maybe you should have chat when you alone about how difficult you've found the early baby days (along with the entire mother population) and she needs to be a little more thoughtful with her opinions. I can also arm you with all sorts of WHO and pro longterm BF info, but that's not really the point. Whatever you do and as hard as it can be not too, don't argue your corner too much just let her know it's not easy and comments like that hurt. In the end you KNOW what your doing is right for Madam, I know I think you are doing the right thing.

Also with DH it's hard to see a different side to the boys when the babies come along but having kids changes us all. I think the menfolk suddenly get this huge sense of protectiveness over the teeny ones which I imagine can be so overwelming. Also I think we all tend to react in the way we have been conditioned. This conditioning comes from our upbringing we don't even realise we are doing it sometimes. If his mum was like that then he will be too. I think it doesn't hurt to tell him your concerned about it. DH is often saying to me that something I say to the boys is just like my mother. I usually growl at him about it but it gets the point across.

Our bikes got stole from outside our house overnight, so I have no bike to take the DS1 to school and get around, which is pain. I think we'll have to pop out this afternoon to look at a new bike.

veggie oh no, are your bikes insured?

wg hope you are feeling a bit more cheerful today. I agree with what people have said re your friend, she has no idea what is going to hit her! I would definitely have thought that re the having them in bed with you at 3:30-5:30 thing. I used to think, why do people ALLOW their kids into bed with them?? Why don't they just make them sleep in their own beds? Tee hee. I didn't realise that it's actually quite nice to have a snuggly little baby in bed, as well as sometimes also the easiest thing all round!! re the bfing that is a mean, tactless and thoughtless thing of her to say actually, but I doubt she really thought it through and meant to be mean. I do agree with whoever said that after you have supported someone through something maybe they feel vulnerable as you have seen them at their most down if you see what I mean? Maybe she is just trying to assert that she is alright now and knows what she is doing, and back on track with her life, which I am sure is a bit insulting and rude, especially when tactless like that into the bargain. I also had no idea what to expect of bfing before I did it - I wouldn't have known that 15 months was considered old to still be bfing actually, I had no idea!

Re people with more money, I don't think it should be a problem unless they are people who always want to eat out at expensive places and go away with you on too expensive holidays? Though I agree it is easy to get jealous of people with more cash. Most of my friends earn more than me but I try not to worry about it as I am happy (also they mostly live in London or more expensive places so it's not massively apparent in house differences, etc, but we did go on holiday with one friend that earns loads and it nearly bankrupted us)!!

Beans glad beryl is being reasonable. That is hilarious about the yoghurts though. My DS has little stars yoghurts too. He loves them (probably cos of the sugar!)

aubs sorry about the finance director row and that it is still ongoing. Hope she gets over it soon.

zj nice to hear from you. I am very impressed with the ball recognition skills and the sudden walking of your DD! So cute.

Oh and veggie I don't know whether to be pleased or insulted that I haven't managed to say anything dopey pregnant amusing yet. Darn it.

re DH, WG - mine's lovely, but he seems to think that life carries on as normal for him when he's there with DD. Doesn't seem to think it impacts on his life in any way - apart from when he wants it to, IYSWIM? And yet, I find my life has changed beyond compare - usually for the better - but not always!!!!

probably this is more down to me being a slave to routine and him being much more relaxed in his attitude to child-raising! But have found routine really works for me and as I'm primary childcarer, what I say really has to go! I like the routine for my own sanity!

DH would just let anything happen whenever, which is probably better for marriage/nerves!

Oh no Veggie, bastards. Hope they were insured. My sister gave me her bike when I lived in London and she moved to Brussels, I had it in the garden for less than 12 hours before some scrote made off with it!
I am a very proud Mummy, just been to Dougie's first school assembly and he spoke beautifully, and said quite alot.
Off to a very boring lunch with my parents and some of their 'smart' friends now, looking forward to seeing their reactions to DD's table manners!!!

beans I think i am relaxed about routine, but DH has DS on a Weds afternoon and I frequently come home at 5:30 to find DS asleep exhausted before his tea, as DH has been running around overexciting him like a mad thing all afternoon and the poor thing hasn't slept

thank you all so much for your replies - i was so overwhelmed i sobbed all over the laptop. then the postman rang at the doorbell with a delivery - i popped madam on the floor (had been sitting on my lap), went to the front door, wiped my eyes, tried not to look postman in the face, took the package, signed for it, the package was ginormous, turned round and didn't see madam behind the package (she had wandered into the hall to see what was up) and knocked her over. then, of course, we were both in tears. for ages.

but i am feeling better. i hear what you are saying about my friend - i think you are right: she doesn't know what is going to hit her, she is prejudging how she is going to feel/act with a baby and she isn't being mean, just thoughtless. this friendship is probably on a wane and will no doubt wax again, sometime. and as for the money thing - that is a side of me i don't like and which, thankfully, doesn't appear very often, only when i'm feeling down.

have just this morning bought myself some proper running gear - was out in my cotton tracky bottoms and realised they don't really cut the mustard, so have bought that special wicking away stuff. cost a fortune, but hey... am feeling much more positive.

and just had lovely long conversation with my friend who has just had a baby boy on sunday night - also by c-section and she sounds great, her dp sounded like he was a star and i'm going to see them on friday morning. can't wait.

thanks to all of you - so much!

veggie - sorry to hear sbout the bikes - that's rubbish.

beans - you make me laugh! madam also has petits filous (and i've started shopping at morrisons as sainsburys was too expensive). we also have a friend who insists on plum baby fromage frais as it doesn't have sugar and my baby won't touch them now as they are only sweetened with fennel or cammomile or agave sodding juice - who knows? mind you, madam's favourite snack is a cheese triangle (my top tip for getting babies to put on weight - cheese triangle to finish the meal off), so i'm a right old proper chav, aren't i?

thanks to the basket. x

Oh my gosh, Katie - that was a quick steal. And I promise it wasn't my norks that were the thieves, despite them being scrotes.

Oh lovely of Dougie to speak so beautifully - well done him! Hurray!

Hee hee re exhausted DS SL - DHs forget they need sleep!

Veggie - I meant to sympathise about the bikes - how irritating!

There's this really irritating girl at work, who puts her hands on my tummy whenever I walk past her. I'm a really touchy-feely person with people I know and love. But I don't know her, nor like her, nor would seek her out for a chat. I hate her touching the belly. Do you think I can tell her that it makes me uncomfortable? It's really not her property!!!

Hello,
Beans that reminds me of the Friends episode where Chandler's boss keeps slapping him on the bum! If it were me I'd probably just avoid her since you haven't got long left. Depends how often you have to see her I spose!

Sorry me post coming-
Ok back from the consulatant appointment. Turns out the one I was booked with (who happens to be the best apparently) is on holidays for the exact 2 weeks period I'll need him! How dare he! Anyway, I went with his recommendation for next best obviously and then he booked me a date. Since the different consulatants only do electives on certain dayshe said it could be anytime after 38 weeks so this particular one would mean I will be booked at 38+2. He or dh didn't seem bothered at all. I had been extremely concerned originally about having the date too close to due date, however now I've got myself worked up that perhaps it's too early? I've googled of course and seems there are lots of sections planned at 38 weeks and I know I over think things. Anyway, could all the previous sectioners tell me when their lil ones were delivered? DS was at 39 weeks on the nose - no issues at all. Do you think 38+2 is fine? Or should I worry and either A- Change consultants again or B- ask for the following week which would be 39+2 then stress that the 2nd may be early and risk going into labour at which point I'd get whatever Registrar was on duty eek

I would flinch noticeably Beans, and if she's not aware enough to pick up then she needs to be told. Maybe saying something like it makes the baby overexcited, or it's physically uncomfortable for you? Oh, and I'm sure that the sooner you get out of beryl's weird reality zone you'll feel so much more relaxed. She would drive me bonkers.

What a bummer about the bikes, Veggie, you'd have assumed everyone over there had their own already but I guess you get thieving bastards in every country. .

WG, there has been so much good advice on here already and I don't think I can add much to it but glad you've got the new running gear (now you've got it you'll have to show it off plus the evenings are getting lighter which will make a much bigger difference when it comes to exercising. Did you enjoy the running club? Think you might go again?

Totally with you on the richer friends, it can be so dispiriting and I find it harder to connect with them emotionally when the material worlds are so far apart. I know that makes me sound shallow but I just find it very hard to get over. I guess I'm still reeling from us no longer being a double income household and having to question every single piece of expenditure. So sadly no advice here but I do sympathise.

T up at 5.30 this morning (knew it when he fell dead asleep at 6.30 last night, he never sleeps longer than 11 hours) so no idea what's going on with his sleeps. Went to a soft play type thing this morning and he's getting a little more adventurous but still is by far the most clingy and fearful child there. He is like that in all new situations and even some familiar ones, I see all the other kids launching themselves out there and can't help wishing T was more daring. Compared to every single child I know he's so timid (though very rascally at home) and it's not for want of group situations - we do something every day and he's at nursery Mon and Fri. I hope I don't show it with him and feel very bad about it but DP and are are just not like that and it seems weird we've produced such a shy child.