May '09 Fine and DANDY vive la difference! 3 months on and our babies and lives are changing.

[Grumpyoldcaaaaaaaa]

Well Dandy!!!!!!! Just for you after an annoying night

thanks bg

sorry - I mean bc

not much sleep

Loobs Massive, massive hugs for you. Deffo with Belgian on the expressing. S has a dummy sometimes but it's more for when she's fussing and fretting and gnawing. It may help to take one on the plane just for take-off and landing as babies need to be sucking to avoid the ear-popping pressure build-up. If she'll take one of course . I really hope you enjoy your holiday.

Well the weather is crap here today, windy and rainy. But my garden urgently needs it so I don't mind too much.

The girls are happy today as it's the once a month chicken, chips and ice-cream school lunch. And I've agreed to pizza for tea as I could do with an easy option tonight.

flippin I was a vegetarian for a good 15 years from being about 11. The offal thing is just a squeamish reaction - it's daft, isn't it? I get the feeling DD1 will be a vegetarian.

Right shopping calls...

Hi All,
Thanks for the encouraging messages yesterday, really means a lot that you are all so supportive. The plot thickens... Got a call back from the GP who had spoken directly with the Paed at the hospital and emailed a copy of our charts to him. He thinks the growth pattern/suspected murmur aren't linked so the lack of weight is prob down to low supply from me so I have to introduce a 5oz bottle of formula at night (cue me back to feeling pants). The murmur will be investigated tho (and it turns out its not just DH's sis with one, both gp's had them too.

So... we tried it last night. Cue loads of screaming from A who eventually drank 1.5oz then promptly spewed what seemed like most of it up over me, her the bed, etc. Bang goes our lovely calm bedtime routine aaaargh! SHe eventually settled with a mammoth boob feed and then slept for 30 mins in cot before coming into bed with me and feeding 2hourly through the night. I am knackered

So am chucking fenugreek down my neck and will try another formula. To anyone mixed feeding, which do you use? I've been told aptamil is supposed to be closest to bf in terms of taste!

Sorry for the me post, hope all are ok and that loobs you have an easy day xx

sorry you're having a pants time running

I use cow and gate formula for top-ups

thanks for the fenugreek reminder - off to town to stock up and find a dummy

meant to say - shame your not going to vanfest we could have met up

my SIL who exclusively BF her lo tried aptimal and her lo threw it all up too

I only used cow and gate cos it was the first one DH picked up for me when HV told me to introduce top-up

running/looby, hope you both have good days.

I'll be back on later to properly catch up. trying to get out the of the house for 10 but still need to dress/makeup, etc.

Harper woke 2x in the night and i did my best to soothe her w/o feeding but didn't work. why is she not going through the night without feeding? she tends to cluster feed during the day: 7-8, 1030-12, 2.30-3.30, 5-7. i might introduce a dream feed at 10 or 11pm. think that may help?

anyway check back in later this pm after feeding my 3, a friend and her 2 toddlers (!).

have a good day momino

still haven't got dressed yet M fell asleep on me after a feed at 9

Looby what a nightmare night . Can I just reassure you about the plane. My experience is that the noise of the engines soothes DC off to sleep. I was really worried when I took DD1 to Orlando when she was 4 months (I think I must have been crazy, in hindsight!) but she slept all of the way because she liked the noise. As Grumps said, a dummy can help when you are taking off and landing, or BFing if you can because they swallow and clear their ears

Running I've had a bit of a time of it getting G to take formula. My tips are:

1. Persevere as they get it eventually
2. I use SMA. Don't really know why but have heard (no idea if it's true or not) that Aptamil can cause wind probs for BF babies. This might be an urban myth tho
3. Might be worth trying a couple of different bottles, as that can help too. DS uses the Breastflo bottles (from Mothercare) but MAM & Tommee Tippee are worth a try too
4. Warm up the milk to slightly warmer than body temp. I found this made a real difference to how G took the milk. And finally (!)
5. Have you tried feeding with A lying flat on your lap? G fed better like that, I suppose because he lies flat when I am BFing him.

Good luck !

Well, Ladies, I have decided to take a self-imposed break from MN and FB and the laptop in general for a week or so. After this week, I can feel the clouds of depression floating towards me, and I am using the laptop as an excuse to do nothing, sit on my bum and not actually talk to anyone in RL about how I am feeling. I am also using it to avoid dealing with the kids, and switching on Cbeebies as a babysitter as I mess around on the internet. Hope you understand. Hope you all have good weeks / weekends and I will pop on again in a week or so's time.

tummum thanks

hope your break helps you

running I use the tommee tippee closer to nature bottles

running I'm a bit about the drs suggesting to introduce formula in your case. It always tends to be paeds answer to problems in my experience anyway. A clearly doesn't like it either, so would the trauma really be worth it. I think it might be worth to talk to a bf councillor or even to post on the bf section of mn, because there are some expert people on there. In the mean time stick with taking the fenugreek.

As for Aptimil It tends to be the recommended formula for bf babies, I'd never heard of the problems you mentioned Tummum and looby. Farley's is the next best in terms of similarity to bm, however both are obviously still far removed from the real thing.

tummum Hope you're feeling better soon. We'll miss you on here this week.

Right, I will now step away from the PC and do something useful, such as the dishes, ironing and groceries.

I feel kinda bad, yesterday I gave J a bit of baby rice to see if he'd eat it, and he gulped like 6 spoonfulls down, actually knew to open his mouth for it I just wanted to see if he'd eat it, I really don't want to wean him If I can help it, I wanted to hold off as long as I could. He's 18 weeks, but I'm just so confused, and my HV hasn't helped me at all. Last night I had a little read of the weaning thread and decided I'm definately not going to be posting there lol I think it's because they've changed all the guidelines, and with DD it was ok to wean at 4 months, she was a BIG baby, HV said she was ready, went through everything with me (which I've forgotton now so we weaned her at 4 months. This time with J, I didn't want to wean him early, they changed the guidelines for a reason etc, and I wanted to follow them, my heads just going round in circles. So last night I gave him this little bowl of baby rice to try, and he only woke once in the night, this could be a coincidence I don't know. THe waking isn't a problem. I just keep thinking does he really want two 7oz feeds between midnight and 7am? Because to me that's not right. I don't know what to do. I don't want to talk to my HV again. I'll keep giving him the feeds if that's what he wants, don't get me wrong, I just don't want to be giving him more and more milk if he's needing food. I really wasn't this confused with DD, I just got on with it. I feel like I'm failing this time.

Jael don't feel bad. A bowl of baby rice won't have done any harm. The advice has changed because of research that shows there's a link between weaning 'early' (before 6m) and an increased risk of food allergies/intolerances in later life. I was weaned at 4m, had sugar put in my formula and everything and my digestive system is fine!

The important thing to remember is that milk has much, much more in the way of calories and nutrients than baby rice, so if J is waking up hungry, it's because he needs more milk. 4-6m is a notorious period for growth spurts. several of the babies on here who were sleeping through are now waking for night feeds, so it's not uncommon, and it doesn't mean anything is wrong. You're absolutely not failing J, you are doing your best for him, which is exactly what he needs

running I had the same thoughts as Belgian but am not as knowledgeable. I think doctors tend to suggest formula because it's an easy solution - or so they think, not so easy when you have a baby that won't take a bottle!

Good morning ladies, I've been determined to do a proper post for weeks, so hopefully here it is! Apologies if I miss anyone, have been trying to keep reading the thread, but may have forgotten some people's news.

Grumpy well done on your move. It sounds amazing over there, and am not at all jealous of all your produce on your land, we have one apple tree (very small about 30 apples). I remembered the other day that it actually exists and went to check on the apples, they were all staring up at me from the ground with very sad expressions on their faces. Better luck next year I say.

Fi very very exciting news about the possibility of moving to NS. And everyone else who's thinking of moving away from where they are now. We love it so much in our little town that yet again we're thinking about moving to a bigger house, but staying in same town. The thought of moving scares us somewhat, probably because last time we tried it all went wrong. I think we'll put our house on the market and see what happens and try not to look at other houses until we have an offer on ours.

Jael very glad that J is ok. Does anyone else have visions of bad things happening to DC? E.g. dropping them, stopping breathing etc etc? Am I strange and warped or is this just general mumness? Also Jael, don't feel like you're failing re feeding/weaning. I'm finding it all confusing as advice differs so much. Am sure someone on here will be along soon with words of wisdom.

Rolling babies E isn't rolling yet, trying her best and watching all her friends perform perfect rolls, am sure she's going to get it soon. We've got a lovely thing going on here with 6 other new mums in the area. We meet up twice a week and one of our meetings is always at one of our houses. This is fine at the moment as babies have only just starting to be able to roll themselves around, am just trying to imagine these meetings in a few weeks time when rolling babies are out of control...

Jennster not sure I could handle your frog invasion. (btw, I battered a big spider with a long cardboard tube the other night whilst home alone. It asked for it, sat on the ceiling waving it's front legs at me - should I feel guilty about this?).

mums and MILs I think am very lucky to have my Mum and MILs all within a ten minute drive of me. This may sound like a nightmare to some of you, but I can choose when to see them and when I do see them it can be from anything from 10 minutes to all day. So if they are behaving impecably (sp?) they get to see lots of us, if they start being insulting/annoying/daft then they get 10 minutes. Easy!

running sorry about your rubbish time you're having. Sending lots of calming and non-worrying vibes your way.

looby I unfortunately don't have any advice for you, just to say keep at it and do what feels best for you and LO.

tummum good for you for identifying how you're using the internet and laptop and extra good for you, for taking a break from it. Hope you're feeling better soon.

And finally, here at Gert Towers all is well. E still BF like a good 'un. She's still up during the night, have tried dream feeds and feeding her more often during the day, but she still likes to feed in the night one or two times. So I'm thinking this is just the way she is and am living with it. Although we're going on holiday in a caravan next week, and whilst not a tent am hoping that the fresh sea air will knock her out for the count at night and I'll get a few nights of full sleep! I'm trying to manage my sleep deprivation by once a week going to bed when E does at 8.30 and that way I get a good 6 or 7 hours before her feed.

We bought a highchair for E last week and she now sits at the table with us for dinner most days. We have some lovely family chats during this time .

Sorry if I've missed anyone, hope everyone has as much sun as we do today (I even got a bit of a tan yesterday).

xx

Sorry mammoth post... must learn to post more often.

Jael meant to add, babies store up vitamins etc whilst in the womb. Those stores don't start to deplete until after 6m, so babies don't actually need any food until then other than milk. Signs that they are ready include sitting up unaided, being able to pick up food and bring it to their mouths and losing the tongue thrust reflex. (you can tell I've been reading the book!).

As H had a bit of a go at my banana the other day I've given him some big chunks (say 2in) to play with while sat in his bumbo, but he hasn't got the dexterity to pick them up and put them in his mouth yet and is far more amused by dropping them on the floor

Morning all! Nice sunny day here, I;m supposed to be cleaning the house (people coming for coffee this pm) but instead I'm sat here. A is asleep, good night last night after the complete bowel evacuation! DD1 has just eaten a nectarine and asked for an apple. I on the other hand have just eaten two jam doughnuts . Lead by example? What's that then?!

jael - every parenting decision is hard, isn't it? There's no clear answers anywhere. I'm not sure I can offer you any advice though, my inclination it to wait.

tummum - we'll miss you but understand. Look after yourself.

running - does the top-up have to be evening if it's stressful, why not do it at another time of day? Although I agree with Belgian and wonder if it would be worth talking to a BFC or one of the helplines to get their take on it?

looby - hope you get a restful day today. I knwo what you mean about the build up to a poo, A is uncomfortable for about a day before the Big Event! Have you tried baby massage? Agree about surprising effects of flights too - we flew last year with DD1 (18 months old) who hardly slept during the day unless she was in the pushchair, on the plane, we took off, she was awake for about half an hour and then crashed out for the whole flight and an hour after we got off. Your flight isn't very long is it?

Spangle I had read about you planning to do BLW with H, if I'm completely honest I have little knowledge about it with DD we did puree's of each individual fruit/vegeatable before mixing them together. J will grab his toys and put them straight in his mouth, and when he's wearing a bib it's constanting always in his mouth, as is his t-shirts think I may have a strange baby. I don't think I'd be brave enough to try giving him a piece of banana lol

But like I said, I don't mind getting up to feed him in the night. I'd just like to know if those two 7oz feeds between midnight and 7am are normal. I don't want to wean him if I can help it, I only tried the baby rice last night just to see if he'd eat it, and whether it made a difference in him sleeping through, if you get me.

gert yes yes yes about visions of bad things happening - I worry about dropping him, about one of the dogs treading on him or worse, savaging him in front of me, that I might go to pick him out of his moses basket and he's all cold and not breathing, about having car accidents, etc etc etc. I worry that I'm warped too, but I think it's just because we love them so much we think of what would be the worst thing in the world.

looby and running sorry you're having a rubbish time. My boobs still don't feel full even in the morning but am just keeping going.

Jael try not to worry - Felix was sleeping through for a while and isn't any more. I assume it's because he's just hungry and bigger so as above am just gritting my teeth and getting on with the BFing.

Tummum hope you have a good week in RL.

am logging off now to finish packing for the lakes

From small and simple pleasures is happiness made. I just saw a red squirrel in the tree in my garden. I was delighted. A proper squirrel, not a grey rat with a bushy tail. It scampered up the tree and along a branch with, cheeks bulging with acorns. It's absolutely made my day

Looby My advice with regards to the flight is to try and time a feed for take off and you shouldn't have any problems because as tummum (i think) said the engine noise sends them off to sleep. We took DD to New Zealand when she was 3 months old which was more 30 hours door to door. She was fine and slept and feed lots. I was completely engorged when I arrived there though as I feed so much!! BF was really handy as I watched another mum mixing formula and giving purees to her 7 month old DD- she had to bring way more stuff on.
I'm not sure why you were told to do top-ups with M as it sounds like you have plenty of milk for her. Trust in your body to produce the correct amount for her. Sometimes I don't feel full but DS keeps feeding and he is growing. Remember its completely normal for them to have hungry days and grizzly days- just keep shoving in the boob and you will get there. That goes for Running too. It sounds like both of you are feeding really well.

Jael I don't think weaning early is going to do any harm but as Spangle said if they are hungry its milk they need. My DS is waking 3 or 4 times in the night for feeds still but I am trusting that he will sleep longer soon. DS is also a big boy but I'll wait a while longer yet to wean- I can't be bothered with all that extra washing, crazy poos and cooking little puree/finger foods till I have to .

Today is my last day with my friends toddler. My DD is so grumpy today so I'm glad we can have a quieter day tomorrow. Its great for them to play together but all that sharing is tiring for them both. DD has been screaming really high pitched and also does lots of moaning. She isn't talking yet so is really frustrated and I need the patience of a saint to deal with her.

S just rolled onto her side! She totally shocked herself doing it. Amandine, my guest was with me and she looked as proud as punch too!!!

Jael I weaned DD1 at just under 4 months , can't believe I did that! However that was 11 years ago. Looking back, she didn't need weaning at all but I was naive and did as the HV told me. With DD2 I waited a lot longer. I would continue with the FF if I were you, as irritating as it is .

Can you all believe we're here talking about weaning, it barely seems like any time since I found out I was pg!!!

Just a quick one as we're off swimming...G is sitting up! We were playing early on the mat and I sat him up and there he stayed. He's exhausted now and fast asleep, bless him.

Catch you all later, though I'm meeting a friend for coffee at the gym this evening so I'll actually leave the house after dark. Things are looking up!

Hey all, sorry had to dash earlier due to a giant poo incident, then made it out to a group where I had a lovely time and even swapped numbers with a few mums

Thanks for the feedback and advice re bottles, etc. To be honest we were thinking about adding one in the evening anyway as I'm always knackered and we thought it might help her to settle a bit and give me a break. Have bought some aptimil to try but am also going to up the fenugreek a bit too. Will also see if I can get to a LLL group next week for some more bf advice.

One thing I noticed at the group this morning was that A was incredibly distracted when feeding because it was noisy. I wonder if because I've been out and about a bit more she's not been feeding so well during the day? She had a good long feed when we got home tho (after a 2nd giant poo - she'd been storing it for a week!)

Loobs was chatting to a mum today who took her lo who is the same age as M to Majorca last week. Apparently she was good as gold on the flight, she fed her on take off and landing on the advice of a bf consultant and she hardly twitched apparently. Hopefully you'll get the same!

grump yay for the rolling! A always looks a bit perturbed when she rolls. Especially when she manages front to back as she obv finds that more difficult.

gert yes to visions of bad things. Especially the sleeping thing - as A is so bad at sleeping on her own, when she does I have to go and check on her all the time to check she is still breathing

llare yay on the sitting!

We also bought a highchair for A this week as she loves being at the table with us. I found one that reclines so she can sit in it now without lolling about and she seems to love it. Means DH and I don't have to take it in turns to eat one-handed as I never did get around to buying that spork!

Oh and spiders I have never seen so many (and so many big ones) as we seem to have in our garden and house. I trod on one yesterday morning on our kitchen floor.... ewwww.