Nov 2008 - because there was no thread space to think of a clever title!

[Yorky]

Had to be done soon, hope it works!

Vbab I think Obs has summed it up perfectly with 'pre-schools are for SAHM's, private nurseries are for working mum's' The very nature of pre-schools does not fit into the pattern of your average working mum. It may well be the 'done' thing where you are because a lot of mums are SAHM's or have other forms of childcare (grandparents etc) who can do the drop-off and pick-ups.

I think Obs idea of speaking to the school first before you resign - see just what would his chances be if he didn't attend the pre-school and then make your final decision.

Although I am loving being at home, I am starting to feel ready to go back to work - when walking to nursery, I am starting to look enviously at the women in cars going to work with suits and make-up on (how sad is that?) and looking forward to wearing high heels and smart trousers instead of jeans and flip flops . I would actually be very if I couldn't go back.

Chocorange lovely to hear from you. Totally agree as to wondering where on earth the last 9 months have gone - definitely the fastest 9 months of my life!!

tegan sorry you have had some crap nights - these babies love to lull you into a false sense of security don't they?

Well the poo saga continues here - the Hamster is still pooing all the time (including at 3.30 this morning (grrr! Having just got DS1 out of nappies, I was looking forward to not needing so many nappies but Hamster clearly has other ideas about that

vbab very wise words from obs and ceebee, and I really do think there comes a stage when you are "ready" to go back, I loved it yesterday was good being ellie the nurse rather than mummy just for a few hours, I am lucky as I am only back 1 day a week so maybe cant comment as such but I did go back at 30 hours after DD1 which included working lates earlies and nights (which Chocgal) is doing and I found that very hard as I wouldnt see DD1 from lunchtime one day till tea time the next day (used to watch her sleeping at times) and I think that is why I suffered PND as I went back too early. FWIW and please just ignore me if I am way off I think you should wait till your AD's have kicked in as if your not feeling at your best then its not the best time to make big decisions, is there anyway you can extend your maty leave and possibly explain to your boss that you would just like an extra month or so, or your GP could sign you off as IMVHO you dont sound "ready" to go back and maybe the extra time could help you sort out what you want to do, just dont make a hasty decision
choco nice to see you back, M looks great on your FB pics.
ceebee millie poos alot too lol.
obs when are you back at work?

totally agree wit ellie, vbab. Now is not the time to be making monumental decisions that affect your work, thus your life, right now. Once the ad's kick in, you might feel so differently about this.
Talk to your work. tell them you need some more time to think.
Plus, they want you back at work immed, right ? so you would have to put the children in private nursery, until the pre-school opens up again in sept , right ?
Plus, you could TRY it. go back to work. see how you feel.
3 days on, 4 days off, (3 days work, 4 days with your beloved children) is possibly an ideal that most parents would relish.
what does dh and your best friend think ?
Dropping off at school gets monotonous very quickly as others have said. Plus in our school, we kiss goodbye to the reception(aged 4-5) children. But next year, year 1(aged 5-6), the ask the parents not to hang around/wait !!!!
Please appreciate what a huge decision this is for you. Hope I am helping not hindering you.

LOads of mums here who work have their DCs in preschool. There is an after school club and a breakfast club and a holiday club. Our preschool offers a full time place from day 1, too. DS went full time because he wanted to.
I know quite a few of the other schools around here only offer 2.5 days.

Some mums around here have nannies, some use private nursery, or childminders either for whole day or after preschool pickup.

Lots of mother husbands around here actually work fewer hours than their wives, and at least two of my friends are the main wage earners and their husbands now work part time.

I don't actually think it is that simpplistic, TBH. I think it depends upon the length of your working day, the hours you work, what other support you have- everyone seems to be different as far as I can tell.

But if he is happy at his nursery and the hours fit, I really think you could afford to rethink, vbab. I also agree with ellie, that if you are feeling down I would try to put off making such very big decisions if you can. I had had enough of my joob but it still made me feel a bit sad whne I left, maiinly becuase it was a decision that was forced upon me ratheer than one I made entirely on my own judgement.

I am suprised by the fact that where he goes to preschool may affect his school place. Preschool placement is not linked at all to places in the actual school here. preschool/nusery is decided by the school, school is decided by the LEA in Manchester. I know in Stockport, for example, preschools are not attached to primary schools at all. Quite a few working people I know sent their dc to DS's preschool because it offered a full time place but their DC will be going to a different school come sept.

It is a very difficult jugglign act, parenthood and working, adn it does not get any easier once they start school.

Thanks for eveyone's well wishes for DS he is much better though ahs a horrible cough.

Nice weather here, we are off to the park.

Glad DS is feeling better Pinky

DD was horrible last night, she even woke DS who, bless him!, lay with his head under his covers!

Vbab, you say you want to go back to work, the fact that it isn't actually costing you to go back is good, it will on improve financially as they cost less as they get older. Would getting out of the house for part of the week make you feel less like you're banging your head against a brick wall?

I haven't worked since DS was born (partly cos we've moved so much) and I seriously considered 15hrs a week admin where DH works - but even at that I would be paying childcare for 2DC just to have adult time, not ME time, so I don't think its worth it, no matter how frustrated I get some days. Agree with everyone who says don't make a decision in writing yet

Off to look at map and find somewhere between Telford, Uttoxeter and Leicestershire - anyone else want to join in?

Pinky, those working mums that use the preschool, must have back up in the form of a nanny or parents or something.
What is your suggestion to vbab then ?
preschool for 2.5 hrs , 5 days a week. And they want her to work 3 full days.
Is is actaully pretty simplistic. 2.5 hrs doesn't fit with a 7.5 h hr working day. Not without totally reliable backup and highly organised.

No they don't all have nannies, Obs. Most of them use the before and after school clubs- as I say our preschool does full time - i.e. 9-3, with a breakfast club and after school club that takes the day until 5.
Two of my friends take turns in having each other's boys in the mornings until time for school. there are quite a few childminders who do pick-ups as well.
A few fathers who work part time alternate to their wives, and two of my other friends have help from GPs.

I'm guessing vbab will do whats best for her and her family. I was just making a general point that it does not appear to be that simplistic.

I have a couple of friends whose boys go to another preschool that does 2.5 days and they have a childminder who picks them up.

A childminder/gp combo would work just as well as full time nursery, if that's what Vbab wants to do.

Either way, Vbab, I agree with Yorky- plenty of people I know have effectively been paying to go to work- ie once full time chidcare has been deducted they come home with very little- but at the end of the day they love their jobs and have hung onto their careers, which is the best thing for them, and everyones needs have been met. 3 full days at a nursery for a year would be a very good solution, even if you came home with little pay for that year, so long as it kept you in a job you enjoy.

Those half day preschool places are awful for sahms too. If you have another child at home it is very restricting. A friend of mine has a 30 min. journey each way tothe preschool that doesn't even offer lunch- so it is very hard for her to go to anything with her son who is 2, and we don't see much of her these days.

I never said they did all have nannies, Pinky.
I never said anything of the sort.

I myself have similar ideas about my friend having ds1 and me having her boys, say for a day, when I go back to work in oct.
Many of my friends juggle and use all sorts of different resources to fit in working with school etc etc.
And you are lucky to have a preschool than does 9-3, with pre and post clubs.
But that was not what was on offer to Vbab.
Her particular scenario as I said before , is simplistic. 2.5 hrs don't fit with 7.5 hrs. Let alone the hassle of actually getting the children to the places they need to be, before you actually arrive at work for your paid hours.
Pre-school is great. 2.5 hours of pre-school is a lifesaver for many mums. But realistically 2.5 can not work for 7.5 hr working mums.
That was my only point. And I still maintain that.

And anyway all this preschool stuff is by the wayside. What about Alyssa ? If the financial gain is so little vbab, it doesn't sound worth it. You would have to ........... drop alyssa at a nursery, cm ? then ds1 at pre-school, and then you go off to work, how long is the commute ?
and then someone has to pick him up ? and you have to collect your 2 children from d2 different places, at the end of a long , tyring, working day ?
for what , how much would you be left with.
Don't do it. It sounds like a logistical nightmare. and not financially or emotionally worth it.

Pinky I think your pre-school is fairly unique to offer both full-time places/before and after clubs for pre-schoolers - I have certainly not heard of anything like that round here. It tends to be either 2.5 hours each morning or 2.5 hours each afternoon. You are right though that it is a nightmare if you have another child at the same school - my sister had that and her MIL (who did her childcare for her) was walking to the school and back 4 times a day!!

Obs wise words again from you

Vbab the logistics of having Ds at pre-school and A at nursery seem incredibly complicated for the very small financial gain you will get from it. I realise it is probably too late now to revert DS back to a 3-day nursery place, even if you wanted to, so I guess you have to make your decision on the position you are in now - but agree with the others that it might be better to wait until your head is clearer and the AD's have kicked in. Assuming you haven't taken your full 12-month entitlement for mat leave, can you extend it even if it takes you into unpaid mat leave (which is effectively what you would be if you resigned anyway). Also, do you need to factor in paying any mat pay back if you do resign (this is usually the case if you have received anything over and above the statutory mat pay).

Thank god you are here ceebee. I thought I had killed the thread. Now, I do love a good to-do, and Pinky is my fave to have one with, but in a nice way, not a nasty way.
So I have been kinda busy aswell. Making a chicken curry for part of dh's birthday. With garama masala, tumeric, chilli, cardamons, peppercorns, cumin, cloves, saffron, coconut milk and tomatoes = my best ever.
I have made basmati rice, with mustard seeds and lemon peel aka jamie oliver AND I have made home made naans with garlic and coriander.
And I would like to offer pinky to come for curry, as a reconciliatory gesture
Will that do ?

Agree with ceebee. You get nothing like what pinky gets round here other than 2.5 hrs. How much do you have to pay, on top of the 15 hrs free childcare that you get, then Pinky? I bet its cheap. God, something like that round here would be oversubscribed within a day ! They fight for nursery places here. At £50-60 per day.
At ds's school , out of 60 mums, only 4 work. Part time. No one else can afford to.
I understand vbab's situation - I will be ending up with only a few hundred in my bank, which is what I used to earn for a couple of hours work !!

Vbab - I'm thinking back on when my older two were at pre-school. Our local primary didn't have one and the only facility in the area was a couple of times a week for three hours a time at the local community centre. I was working full time and so obviously was unable to drop off at 9.30 and pick up at 12.30! We had a childminder who looked after the children for us while I worked and she was more than happy to bring them and collect them from the pre-school group. In fact, a lot of childminders provide 'wrap-around' care for children at pre-school and school. You can request a list of registered childminders from your local council. Most councils have lists of childminders, nurseries etc showing info such as age ranges, fees, working hours and which schools they drop off/pick up from. Alternatively, have a look at this link. Or maybe even this one. FWIW, I agree with Pinky - it's not a case of SAHMs do this and working mums do that. All pre-school groups, nurseries, primary schools etc will have experience of delivering provision for a child with working parents and may be able to advise on 'wrap-around' care. So Vbab, do check those links out and do ask at pre-school, primary school if they know of any provision; obviously it won't be free and that'll be another factor for you to consider but at least it will help you to make an informed decision based on the facts relating to the actual provision that is available to you in your area. Hope this helps you out.

Creena those links look like the sort of thing I was talking about.

Obs I think you've been having a bit of a to do by yourself- I had no idea you were getting cross about it, I was just chatting!

I think most of the nannies are picking kids up from the liberal smattering of private prep schools we have around here lol.

I have no idea how much the clubs are as I don't use them, but not that expensive, I don't think.

Ceebee, by no means unique here. Most are either full time or 2.5 days, as i say and all offer breakfast and after school clubs. It does very from borough to borough I think, my friend in cheshire gets this rubbish afternoon thing with no lunch.

To throw a spanner in Vbab you would still have to find holiday cover if you do the pre-school route as all pre-school's I know close over the summer. Perhaps a childminder would be best. You could always take DS to pre-school on the days you do not work.

Part of me thinks you want to go back to work. Before you hand your notice in please look at all childcare scenario's. if you think you would be depressed staying home 24/7 then £100 a month for your sanity is worth it IMHO.

Not done much here. Feel a little low Put weight on, feel hungry constantly, could be because of the pill hoohaa

Becca getting faster and faster, nothing is safe lol

I wasn't getting cross. I meant hoo-ha in a funny kind of way. Like enjoying have a bit of debate. Thats all.

I'm going to pick a fight with Ob if it means I get invited for a curry!

Lol I bet when Vbab reads this, her head will explode with all the information Hadn't thought about childcare but may well be an option and would resolve all the problems as if you find one who could have A aswell and was prepared to drop and pick DS up from pre-school, it would be very simple!

Obs that curry sounds yum yum yum - your DH is a very lucky man

Coolkat sorry you are feeling I think the pill used to make me hungry as I have definitely noticed a difference in my appetite now I am not on it.

All good here - Just 4 dirty nappies today but still no teeth

Hi everyone
have been reading all the childcare chat and feel lucky I don't need to worry about that.

Well that's my nightshifts over, off on hol now for 2 weeks. E slept through last night 8-8!!! I think it's because DH doesn't go in to him unless he's properly crying whereas I go in at the first whimper. I think I will be more tough tonight!

Sorry your feeling low coolkat, I also think the pill increases your appetite.

Creena - we were at Amerton farm this afternoon, do you know it?

choc i am pleased e is sleeping better, i just wish o would. he was up twice last night and then we have been up since 5:30am.
I too go in at every wimper othyerwise the other kids will be woken by him.

childcare preschool from 2.5yrs (here) is 2 x 3hrs per week rising to 15 hours a week spread over 1 x9 til 3 day and 3 x 3hrs days iyswim so 1 day 3 half days, but preschoolers can go to the before and after school clubs.

Personally (not in that situation) with dd2 for some sanity before she was 2.5yrs i put her in a nursery for 2 afternoons so she mixed withother kids and i had a break.

so ladies help me with the sleep thing before i die of exhaustion please ......

chocgal at E sleeping all night hope it lasts
tegan Whats O's bedtime routine?
OK whats wrong with me DH had his op yesterday all went well and I went up to see him last night and he was just back from theatre so was still groggy but sat up nd was fine when I left, but I keep crying today???

Hi all, haven't been on for a few days as had so much on, all that eating and stuff ( for those who remember my last post about DS1's birthday dinner and then going to Cadbury World!!)
Anyway, have had a great week. All went well with the birthday boy, he was pleased with his prezzies (mostly Lego he is a huuuge fan). Cadbury World was great, we all had a fab day.

vbab glad it went well at the docs. Sorry about your dilemma re work. I remember after having DS1 we were living in London and I was desperate to go back to work (theatre box office - best laughs of my life!!) but nursery fees were soo expensive. I basically ended up working just to pay the nursery fees but it saved my sanity. I only did a few evenings so DH had him then, and then 1 full day when he went to nursery. I think you just have to work out which will cause you the least stress....

creena welcome, I only joined after I had DS3 (9th Dec he was late)but it has been such a lifesaver here sometimes

ellielou sorry to hear of your upset - do you think it could be a tension build up that has just come out??
tegan huge sympathy on the crap nights. I know what you mean about getting in there before they wake the others. I go in to M far quicker than I did with the other two, just because now their rooms are so close, and I hate the thought of the others been woken by him. However, there have been a couple of times I was still downstairs and in the middle of something (like on the loo when he started crying and couldnt get there immediately. Anyway, it didn't actually wake the other two up, so maybe you could "train" them to get used to the sound of his crying so that maybe they don't get too disturbed???

Well, M hadn't been well today which is the second time only he has been like this(yes I know I'm damn lucky) He has been sick a couple of times during the day (once this morning and once this afternoon) and only been taking 2oz of milk each feed. He has rejected solids. (well, such as he has) anyway, this afternoon he did one of the stinkiest nappies I have ever come across!! It smelt really salty and offensive - ugh!!! He has had 3 bad trots episodes anyway, so clearly something in his tummy that is not right. He is quite cheery though, and no temperature. So let's hope it's very temporary. Although I have to say based on the experience of the other two, when they get diarrohea as babies, it does tend to last a good few days or even more than a week. Lucky me.

Oh Ellielou that does not sound like you. I hope you are feeling better. I hope DH is doing ok to!

Tegan, On the sleep front I have no real advice as Becca was up loads last night, I always seem to put it down to teeth and ended up giving calpol last night. I hope it improves soon. X

Ceebee we have plenty of drool but no teeth!

Yorky hope you have had a good day.

Choc enjoy your 2 weeks off, I hope your good sleep continues even if I am

Not done much been out in the garden for most of the day, Becca crawled through the pop up tunnels! her romper suit has all grass stains on it nice!

ellie I hope you feel better soon, it is probably the stress of having a baby, other kids and dh being in hospital. on the o front I tend to give o a bath at around 7pm then bring him down stairs to have his bottle, which he tends to fall asleep having and i put him to bed, by 8pm usually.

Thanks for the kinds words and it makes me feel so much better to know it isn't only me who is seeing most hours on the clock.

fudge hope m is feeling better soon, bugs are a real nightmare but at least in 48hrs he should be feeling better