Dec 08 mums - embuggerance to it all - sleep or no sleep we love our babes

[waitinggirl]

i hope people don't mind, i took the bull by the horns and did it. title a bit naff, but more important the thread exists rather than search for a better title. hope i haven't stolen anyone's thunder...

Mom you poor thing, and gross to the frog catch. But will it get smelly by Friday???? Can you do the jar and thin piece of cardboard thing to get rid of it. Sounds like really bad teething, I know you gave calpol but if it really bad might need gel or powders too or even some ibuprofen. Hope it settles soon will be thinking of you.

I have been very very bad. DS1 got 3 bags of maltesers during a treasure hunt or pinuata at a party on the weekend. He saved them didn't eat them all at once, but I couldn't help myself and ate them all last night. So I bought him a replacement this afternoon and he had one before he went to bed but now I've eaten the the rest of the new packet too!!! What sort of a chocolate stealing mother am I!

Hi everyone, how are you all? We?ve a nice couple of days, helped hugely by DD being a very happy little girl (probably due to her having better naps. I told her so ). Yesterday we went to see my Gran (she?s in a home and has photos of DD stuck ALL over her wardrobe door) and DD was the happiest, jolliest little soul, which I think made my Gran?s year. I?ve got the loveliest photo of the two of them laughing at each other. And tomorrow we?re going to see my other Gran, as my cousin is also going with her DS (9 months old) and the two babies (are they second cousins?) have never met before. It?s family central this week . I?m not great at visiting either of them very regularly, but have such a nice time when I do I really must go sooner next time

Daisy/Indith/Arti/Trace and others I really feel for you on the sleep (or lack of), especially as you have other children to entertain during the day as well as just your babies. You all have my sympathy (not that it will help, sorry). Arti on the CC, if it was me then I think I?d have to get someone else to do it, for the reasons you mentioned. Is there any way you could get the person to ?coach? a friend or family member, who you know will be strong enough but you?d be comfortable with doing it? Or could you ask to speak to other families who this person has helped, for a ?reference? and how it helped all of the family, to see if it is for you? I?m of the same opinion of CC as you (I think), in that I can see that if it works then it is a good thing for everyone, but it is so hard to do. I think that inadvertently we all do some form of CC (or is it just me who turns off the shower/hairdryer/hoover to discover DD has been crying and I didn?t hear her?), so its just a more controlled form of that

Indith I lurve reflexology/foot massages/anything to do with my feet so would choose something of that type everytime. However my sis has very ticklish feet and this would be her idea of hell, so I could be barking up the wrong tree for you?

WG on weight gain and solids, a few babies at my post natal group actually lost weight or stayed the same when they started to be weaned, as the solids were taking away their appetite for milk, which is still what babies need. So if you?re worried about your DD?s weight, then I?d stick to the milk for now

Thanks for the BW link Mom, and I hope your DS settles soon, poor little boy (and poor you). Has anyone tried PU-PD? I?ve tried it a few times with DD, when she?s struggling to nap but is overtired ? however I think I?m missing something as it doesn?t get us anywhere. As I understand it, I pick up the sad baby and as soon as she stops crying I put her down? DD quickly seems to realise that if she cries for longer she gets cuddled for longer. Has anyone had any better success than me with it, and can you sort me out?

Spot at triangular poos! DD has got quite an expert at them

Trace I?m pleased P?s night has started better tonight, I hope it lasts

The last couple of nights DD has worked out how to roll over in her sleeping bag (I think it must have been a bit restrictive as she?s not done it before), but she still can?t get back yet. So last night I was up 5 times just to turn her back over (not a patch on some of the bad nights, but not good for DD). Should I try to wedge her with a pillow or something, so she can?t roll over, or is this dangerous?

OK, going to get some sleep myself, night night everyone

ZJ I think Tilly has some success with PU-PD, where I'd Tilly by the way, is she away? I'm crap at remembering these things? Anyway after making a complete pig of myself tonight (following the maltesers I had a mini calipo that was in the freezer from when I was preggers and a packet of red sky clusters) so now I feel sick, I blame Auntie Flo. Right I'm off to bed night night.

Morning,

Well Ds slept great last night, bed at 7 and didn't wake till 4.20am. Problem being he then thought it was morning. So I have been awake ever since. His Lordship is now back in bed snoring on his tummy and has been since 6!! I would have gone back to sleep but my little miss then decided she was in need of her cheerio's. And DH think's I might reconsider wanting more children before he has his snip..... I wonder if DS will ever have two nights of doing the same thing.

arti,trace,indith and everyone else who has been having bad nights I hope last night was good for you all.

mom I do hope your lo settled eventually. Sounds like teething, we had it the other night. The night-drive is not recommended but DS did eventually fall asleep. Re: the frog I'd get it shifted if you can. If not have you got a friend/friends other half that could move it for you? Agree with Veggie it might get a bit whiffy!! PLus the cat will just keep malling it.

BTW Metanium has helped DS botty loads. It is still a bit red this morning, but nowhere near as bad so thanks for the advice

Hello
arti you did remember correctly! P has eczema and has tried E45, Diprobase and Doublebase with no success but now has Epaderm which is like magic for her. I think it's a trial and error thing till you find something which suits their skin. LOL at the chins! Not very constructive to LOL but it was funny how you described it! If I need to clean under p's chins I have to lie her down flat on her back and sit at her head end and be very entertaining so that she stretches back to look at me - if you get what I mean? But that's not that practical for prolonged airings!
Zoe - no idea about PU PD I'm afraid. When I've tried to dabble ignorantly in it I just make her crosser because she thinks she's getting comfort then I take it away again! Your family plans sound lovely
P slept quite well last night . She woke up for feeds at 10pm, 12.30am, 3am...then 7am! That's very good for us! The only thing that was any different from normal was that she was in a Huggies nappy instead of an Eco-baby one - I think it's more absorbent and it does seem to fit a bit better but I think I might be giving a Huggies nappy more credit than it deserves...suffice it to say she will be in Huggies tonight all the same!
I remembered another thing the HV suggested - she said I should try cutting out one of her naps so that she has 2 instead of 3. She suggested getting rid of the lunch time sleep, which to my mind sounds daft because that is the one which will carry on for a couple of years (hopefully!). TBH she is so ready for her naps that I'm sure she needs them so think I'll ignore that one!
Now - how much mince would one need to make a lasagne for 7? You remember when we had P our church started a rota for people to bring meals round? Well a friend from church has just been diagnosed with Breast Cancer 2 weeks ago and has just had surgery, so we've set up a rota and it's my turn on Friday - but there are 7 of them, ranging from 5 to 18! I'm actually going to have to but a bigger oven dish because I'm not used to cooking big things! I'm no culinary whizz it has to be said My other thought was to turn up at their house with several take-away pizzas!
Right P is waking up...back later

Spot, ZJ and others re: the BW link. We didn't really get on with the strict PU/PD approach but there is a link here where the BW describes it in more detail: BW Sleep Interview. There is also an entire support board specifically for the PU/PD technique PU/PD forum.

What worked much better for us is comforting in the cot. Shushing, patting, etc. And actually what I realised is that he shouts before dropping off to sleep sometimes and I was actually interfering by patting/picking up, etc. If I watch him, his eyes are pretty much closed, he is rubbing his face in his soft toy, and sometimes shouting/moaning. If he is doing this it is better for me to step out of the room and let him get on with it. If it escalates, I come back in quickly and rub his head and shhh quietly.

What I also realised is that timing is key. I am not really a strict routine person, but DS seems to thrive on a regular routine. The key has been playing with awake times between naps - too much and he gets overtired and hard to settle, too little and he wakes up after 45 minutes ready to play, but then gets tired quickly and it accumulates through the day. Right now we are at 2 hours and 25 minutes being the magic number! If I take him up to his room at 2 hours after waking up, do nappy, calmly read stories, etc., he will start rubbing his eyes at 2 hours 20 mins, pop him in the cot and he goes straight to sleep within a few minutes. When I get this right, he sleeps for 1.5 hours or sometimes even more. If I put him down too soon, he will fall asleep but wake up raring to go after 45 mins and nothing will get him back to sleep. If I wait even 5 minutes too long he gets overtired and wild, flapping around, laughing, screeching and eventually screaming.

I realise this sounds totally anal retentive and insane, but this is what is working for us right now!

Though after last night, how I am doling out sleep advice I really don't know!? After our bad start night turned out to be quite good in the end...did the dreamfeed at 23:00, then he woke at 12:30 and I was preparing for a bad one. Then heard him wake at 2:30, 3:45, and 5:00 but after a couple of minutes of chuntering he went back to sleep on his own! Heard him singing at 6:30, but didn't get him up until 7:00. So he went from dream feed all the way to 7:00 without a feed - that's a first!

Re: the frog, I did the brave thing and ditched the poor little guy using Veggie's jar/cardboard trick.

Trace I'd prob go for about 1kg I reckon

Hello dear girls

Been a bit preoccupied past few days.Can't believe it's Wednesday already - woke up at 3am in a cold sweat (literally) and spent a couple of hours pacing and fretting about all the things I have to do and haven't done (lose weight and work stuff mainly). Ugh. I hate those times in the night. I find it hard to think serene thoughts or indeed countenance anything but the worst case scenarios of any topic that pops into my mind.

Mom - gosh, I hope things improve whilst your DH is away. You were brave about the frog. I am squeamish about any corpses, even tiny ones (ladybirds etc).

Trace - I meant to say, you were also brave about stepping into that row at school. Do be careful in future, though, please! Some people have no qualms about hitting women (I am constantly amazed by the things I hear through DP's job). I think you are staying amazingly sane and calm given the sleep deprivation - FWIW. Interesting what you said about the Huggies. I have only used them once and they seemed as good as Pampers (which I use) - all the Eco ones I used were leaky, as were Boots own. Using Pampers made quite a difference to DD's mood in the early days particularly. I wish the Eco ones were good though. I have a stack of newborn ones and I don't know what to do with them - can't quite bear to chuck them out. Any ideas?

Kayz - I don't think I can add anything useful to what other folks have said about Paris, except that all the best times I have had there have involved tons of walking about (love exploring a city on foot) and lots of stops for coffee!

Arti - I would be interested to hear what you decide about the consultant. It is such a dilemma and I honestly don't know how to advise you for the best. I wish I knew more about baby psychology. But I suppose there is unlikely to be a consensus anyway. I know my Mum would have done anything to get me to sleep (I've mentioned it before, I didn't sleep properly until I was 2 and it was a very bad business, I think, as she is still talking about it). Be interested to hear what you decide.

Veggie - I know it's dark but I did laugh at 'paedicure'. And J is crawling already! Wowzers!

Daisy - I try to avoid my HV. I will only go if summoned! Glad DS's bum is on the mend!

WG - how did Sunday's recording go?

SL - weaning - definitely go with your instincts. Though in answer to your question, DD didn't really get the hang of it at first, but she did after a few days. Mind you...although the Plum Baby/Ella's Kitchen pouches of food taste delicious and are full of good things, they are all very sweet so DD is now turning up her nose at anything I might care to make myself and clamps her mouth shut into a line for my carrot or avocado (or whatever). But she opens her mouth wide for Plum, Pomegranate and Guava (or whathaveyou) and even nudged me with her leg if she thinks I am being a bit slow

Spot - We have just got over a case of the Triangular Poos here, as she was on Sma in London as I couldn't get a tub of Aptimil, and it seemed to bung her up (sorry, TMI).

NJAN - sorry about your uncle...And as for your maternity leave, I sympathise about someone else at your desk thing. Remind me - when are you back and is it full time? Since that contretemps with my assistant a few months back, I have pretty much given up contacting my office. And one of my clients emailed me yesterday to say he's got a second series of a show, which is lovely but the office should have told me. I am supposed to be going back at the beginning of July but there's been no mention of it so I will just leave it until they do. I am busy with my other work anyway.

PD - good to hear from you, and sorry to hear you have been feeling a bit crummy. As well as PMT, are you sure it isn't PLG (Post London Grumps?) I get that sometimes. How are you feeling about The Country now? But Brideshead is fabbo - reading is a great drug. It would have been totally ace to see you at Hindhead BUT what I should have said is that I won't be going as it's 12 July and I am in Italy 11-18 July. I don't know why I didn't say this before - I am a doofus. Hope this hasn't messed you around too much, and I am disappointed as it would've been a nice day. When are you next in Toon?

ZJ - will be interested to hear the answer about the pillow thing - I was wondering that too!

I dreamed I was pregnant last night - I was very relieved when I woke up. I hope this Clearblue pee on a stick thing is safe enough...

A couple of people have mentioned giving LOs yoghurt - is this ok? I thought because of the cow's milk thing we couldn't give it yet. Let me know if it's ok though as I am sure DD would like to try a fromage frais.

I know I have missed people but have to dash now. Have good days, all.

I'd say a 1kg trace.

We have a rota at our church where new mums & their families get evening meals brought to them. Such a fab idea isn't it?

ladyt DS has tried yoghurt/fromage frais but he is not overly impressed.

LadyT - My baby-led weaning book says that dairy products are fine after 6 months (yoghurt, cheese, etc.) and you can use a bit of milk in cooking, just not to give cow's milk as a drink. It is more because they are worried that people will replace breast milk/formula with cow's milk too early, if I understand correctly. The only thing it said about fromage frais is that most of the products on the market have loads of sugar, so just not to give it at every meal. It did say that if they can get used to the flavour of plain natural yoghurt, even with some added fruit puree it is better as a regular snack than the packaged fruit yoghurts.

ladyt thanks for the weaning advice. Also interested to hear veggie (I think) talking about the apple cores. Just gave one to DS and he seemed to like it but don't think he swallowed much. LadyT i thought the same as MoM re yoghurt, that it's OK after 6 months. I was told no honey, nuts, added salt or sugar, or cow's milk as a drinnk otherwise it's all systems go.

triangular poos I would like to see one of these phenomena for myself.

Well renewed respect for all those getting no sleep here. Last night was a bit of an experiment, my friend wanted to a Cambridge May Ball, which runs til 6am, so I said I would try babysitting her 5 month old who doesn't sleep very well. I left E at home with DH, and went round, they left at 9, he woke at 10:45, 11:45 and then 1, when I tried to feed him formula they had left, and he went mental! 20 mins later, i was trying to heat up the formula more thinking it may not be warm enough and he was still going mental, but I'm thinking, if I call them now the way he's crying he will have run out of energy by the time they get back and prob be asleep, so I gave myself a deadline of 20 more mins and then I would call them. 20 mins later he was still crying, I put him down to phone them and lo, he gets quieter! I sneak out of the room, he goes mental again, so I turn the light off hold his hand hand a few mins later he is asleep (still not fed). Obviously I am now so wound up I can't get to sleep! So they come back at 3:15, I go home, express, as DH has just fed DS, and by the time I fanny around trying to get to sleep it's 5am. Yawn. Big respect to all of you with unsettled babies like that. I think he was not happy to not have mum around but by all accounts he can be like that anyway. She is thinking of doing CC with him, but I don't know how this will work as he doesn't wake for food so much just for his dummy and comfort. You do go in to them when they cry with CC don't you? Isn't it just you don't feed them?

But in good news DS only fed once in the night! And resettled well for Daddy which is a good experiment to have done.

Hi all!
first night of ditching the dummy last night aaaaargh! woke at 1240 (I was still awake) then 0400 then 0545 for the day - admitedly I did give him a tiny bit of milk at 0400 so great - i am taking away the dummy but teaching him to cry for milk... although he didn't really want much however I won't be doing that again - what should I do when he's desperate for the dummy? How long does it last? I heard 3 days and he'll forget about it? Napping has been ok as I just wait until he's pretty tired and he nods off with his teddy. Napped for 3 hours thismorning no wonder as he was up all night!
Zoe I think I missed part of your rolling over problem - but why do you not want her to roll over? ds sleeps happily on his tummy these days but we actually turn him there as he is in a sleeping bag too and can't really turn himself.
Lady B has been having Fromage frais - absolutely loves them! he's getting good at eating however kind of suck it off the spoon and attempts to open his mouth but his tongue comes out at the same time - is that normal? He def wants it as he cries if I take the yoghurt away! Also Lady trick O with the food and switch between spoonfuls - if nothing else it's funny to see the shock expression when the yoghurt turns into carrot!
I'm glad I didn't go with the BLW thing - he looks at me like I'm mad when I give him chunks of stuff! And the dog has learnt to standby for the odd thing that gets tossed! Fortunately my dog thinks carrots are yummy as I told her it was a carrot bone!
SuperVeg your DH is gone so much! Well done on the homefront and thought of taking on more kids at your house! Wow you are good at this parenting lark! Oh also - my HV told me F has more calories than BM as a general ruleGP said it too at my last appt for imms when I saw them both and also referred to the weight cahrts being based on FF babies which was why I shouldn't worry as they are usually higher ccentiles when totally FF - now I am confused, but TBH not bothered as B looks fine and I haven't had him weighed for about 6 weeks
To everyone else - sorry about sick babies, sore bums, waking in the night sleep issues and all that.... sorry this has taken forever to write with phone calls and emails in between (hopefully we have let our flat) but still negotiating!
Oh and Nappies - totally agree - b hates huggies and so do I! They are weird sizes and they are tight around the legs and not very stretchy -- we like Pampers - in particular Active fit for the day and Aloe Vera one's at night !
PD,Nolda,Lal, hi Lal hope it gets better...
Mom laughed about the frog! A few months back my dog brought a mini mouse in and it was half dead by her (tiny it was) and she chased it around the kitchen and then it died! I was horrified to say the least!
Another phone call and tennant agreed! [chuffed landlord emoticon]

pmk I thought maybe the whole FF thing is that you can feed a baby as much formula as they want with BF obviously you are limited by your boobs! So at growth spurts particularly you have to wait for your supply to catch up? The BM may have as much or more calories or whatever as the equivalent formula but if they're drinking more formula than they would BM then they might get more calories overall?
This is what I assumed though, so may be rubbish.

Summer - maybe yeah - to tell you the truth, I often glaze over when the HV starts talking as I think they are all a bit rubbish and often try to rush me out the door if I don't ask any questions...

To be honest, I get much better info here and on t'internet. They are not that rubbish round here, but the fact that they really strongly say something if you speak to one and then another will say something completely different seems daft to me. I'd prefer it if they said "Well you could try this, or this, or this"

Lady I was told the same as SL - basically from 6 months you can give anything as long as it is not with added sugar or salt, no nuts and no honey until a year, and cows milk (full fat) is fine to mix with foods but not as a drink. P had a bit of fromage frais this morning and seemed to like it. She only had about 5 mouthfuls so I had to finish the pot off...She had carrot and chicken for lunch and gnawed on a babycorn (thanks for the suggestion - was that ZJ?) and has gone for a nap now SOrry you're feeling fraught ladyT. Hope you can get some relief from your stresses and some restful sleep.
Has anyone opened their Child Trust Fund account yet? I just remembered today that it was one of those things that I put aside! There is a deadline of 12 months...I amn going to use the CHildren's Mutual (Co-operative) because we Lucy's fund is with them, and we bank with the Co-op too. I think it's easier when these things are all in one place.
Mom well done on the frog-removal and yay to the way the night turned out

SL we have many a triangular poo - if you want to see for yourself I can post a pic?!!!
I was wondering whether we could all do another anal spread sheet type thing...what was your DC's birthweight and weight at 6 months? Not to be comparing in a bad way - just out of interest?
P was 7lb 3 (3.26kg) at birth and is now 15lb 8 (7.06kg) at 6 months

oh yes - I completely forgot between phone calls LadyT sorry you are feeling stressed about all that - don't worry about the weight thing - they say it takes 9 months at least - perhaps a year for you body / size to go back to normal ie: pelvis and all that even if the weight had already come off, so I'm sure you will feel better soon and all that rowing will pay off. And very proud of little O for her taste in cheery bubbles too by the way

Yes, LadyT sympathies on the weight, this pregnancy lark is a PITA re your body going back to normal.
Much sympathy on the worrying in the night too. I wake up worrying about one thing as well, then start thinking about going back to work, and get sooo stressed out too. FWIW I am sure you are very good at your job. Particularly the bits that involve writing, you always put things so fantastically!

Mom thanks for those other links, I?ll have a read. I actually quite like the sound of your routine (although I?m quite an anal person), just winging it isn?t my style so when I have the odd day when I think I?ll do this and that and DD will sleep if she needs to, I normally have panics half way through the day that I haven?t done the right thing (but DD is fine anyway). I?m feeling pretty smug right now, as we went swimming this morning and DD had a nap in the car on the way home then some lunch (she was starving) and after a quick play started to rub her eyes so we did as you do, went upstairs, read a book and I put her down and it took her less than 15 minutes to drop off, with only a little bit of shushing and patting. Another tick will go in my diary to remind me of a good nap day!

Trace I?d get loads of veggies in (carrots, celery, mushrooms etc) as I?m useless at judging how much to make, so if it doesn?t look like enough then I chuck in the veggies to pad it out. Have resorted to lentils once when I didn?t have any veggies in, and it was better than you?d think. And oooh at the suggestion of a spreadsheet

LadyT a friend gets rachels organics yogurts for her LO, they have a baby range which have none of the sugar etc in. They look yummy, so are on my list for next time I go shopping for ?me DD to enjoy

PMK DD doesn?t like to be on her tum, so gets in a flap until we sort her out. If she was happy to stay there then it wouldn?t be a problem. I?m sure she?ll either decide its quite nice to sleep on her front, or learn to turnover soon

Right, as DD is still napping (a whole hour now ) I should maybe do something about tidying the pigsty that my house has become. Ta ra for now

Zoe Oh I see... I have one of these I used when he was really small as it made him feel secure since he was in the cot from about 4 weeks. it's quite good and I often used it in the bouncer and when we went somewhere without a travel cot so I could make him up a little bed. It's been one of my best purchases! (apart from the miracle blanket of course!)

Aaargh!!

Not DS2 but DS1 ... he's getting there on the toilet training (I hope) but is persistently pooing EVERYWHERE except of course on the toilet . DH has been out and bought two more packs of cheap pants and tomorrow IS another day

Re: food, DS2 seems to be another of DS1 in that he is refusing to be spoon-fed - grabs the spoon and shoves it in his mouth - and doesn't like the texture of pasta. Tea tonight was a few satsuma segments (chased around the highchair tray enthusiastically and gummed to death) then some pasta which was picked up then carefully deposited back on the tray with a look of disgust. Must try rice as DS1 was keen I remember.

Chidcare contracts all signed . And work have agreed on my days so looks all good. CM has cats and chickens and a small foolish dog who DS1 made friends with today, while nursery has pet rabbits which the older children help look after. Am feeling relieved at palming off the pets thing on other people

For those of us suffering from sleepless nights - hang in there, 6 mo is another tricky time. Arti: re the sleep consultant, I would be very tempted I have to say. If it's guaranteed to work.

Oh and we have the fat neck problem as well. I try and get it properly clean in his bath and then slap some barrier cream on. He still manages to get loads of fluff and general goop in there by the end of the day.

DH has just uploaded the iPhone update - all very exciting apparently . You can now c&p. Not sure what else.

MOM well done you on getting rid of the frog!

Well DS has been THE model baby today. Yes he woke early but went back to bed at 6am till 9am. So he woke played had a bit of baby porridge which he wolfed down. He got a bit sleepy about 11ish, so he had a feed and then went to bed ON HIS OWN in his cot. He woke at 2.30 hungry and promtly wolfed down the sweet potato and chicken I had made him. So he has been an absolute joy for the rest of the day. This is the first time we have had a day like this and may well be the last but I am pleased with my little man. Plus his huge nap meant me and DD got to make Fairy cakes of every colour!

No doubt tonight will be a whole other story

trace DS was 8lb 8oz born and is now roughly 20lb 11oz(6.5 months) He's a big 'un! In fact he has virtually grown out of his car seat as he is quite long. But he's not really ready for his next seat yet. Poor man is crammed in it.