Dec 08 mums - embuggerance to it all - sleep or no sleep we love our babes

[waitinggirl]

i hope people don't mind, i took the bull by the horns and did it. title a bit naff, but more important the thread exists rather than search for a better title. hope i haven't stolen anyone's thunder...

need to get DS2 weighed again . In fact there's a clinic tomorrow but it clashes with playgroup - hmm

I just weigh myself then do it again holding DS. Just gives me a rough idea

22 lb!

oh and birthweight was 8 lb 10

A pair of chunky monkeys we have effie

Evening

Brilliant news on the napping Zoe. I remember from DD1 (who never napped) that all my mates with non-nappers got it sorted at around 6 months. Everything just clicked at that point. Isn't it a lovely feelings.

Trace - thanks for the eczema info. We have diprobase and oilatum for the bath and then another cream for under the chins which will kill any fungus living on the rash (yuk!). Does heat make P worse?

LadyT - so sorry to hear about the night stresses. If I wake in the night I do anything to stop myself ruminating. There is nothing worse than the doom that sets in when things are considered between 1 and 5am. I do feel for you on the weight issue, and on your work being thoughtless and hurtful. I hope they get in touch soon.

PMK - good luck on night two of the dummyless B.

Effie - we found DD1 took a lot longer to "get" poos than pees. What helped in the end was seeing her big cousin (who she idolises) do a poo in the loo. After that we would play games where she pretended to be the cousin and sat on the loo for ages pushing and straining. Then when one was finally deposited in the right place we told she was just like her cousin and called her by her cousin's name! Whatever works I say.

Well guys we have booked the sleep consultant to start on Monday. She met DD2 today and watched me put her down for a nap. Having met DD2 and watched her nap she reckons it might only take two nights.

I have actually been wondering whether to admit this and tell you guys at all. I am rather ashamed by it. I have friends who believe that controlled crying can actually damage a baby's developing brain. Today I looked up that research (its to do with the release of the stress hormone cortisol and the affect that has on the frontal lobe). I think the research is essentially flawed, and two or three nights of occasional crying can do no more harm than three long car journeys where your baby screams for miles and you can do nothing because you are driving. However, despite this I am still ashamed that I am putting myself ahead of DD2. However, having said that I can only be a great mum if I am better rested so in a way I am putting the kids first. Oh God, just typing this is making me question the decision again. I just love that little smiley, chubby baby sooooo much. I don't want her to be scared or feel abandoned, I really do not. But I am so tired.

Right, I am off before I go round in any more circles. Sorry guys!

Sorry, I meant to say that DD2 was 10lbs 2oz at birth and yesterday I got her weighed and she was 17lbs 3oz.

Arti: 'i think if leaving bsbies to cry warped them there would be a lot of messed-up 2nd children about . I wd be v interested to see how it goes. I don't think a few nights of crying eqials long-term probs, the thing I get uncomfortable with is carrying on night after night whne it obv isn't working.

Hello everyone,

daisy Great to hear you had such a good day. It just makes it all worthwhile for days like that .

arti Not having any sleep is awful and you certainly haven't come to this decision to try cc lightly. Try not to beat yourself up about it.

zoe Lovely to hear you sounding much better. Hurray for sleeping during the day!

ladyT What a horrible night. I hate that dreadful tummy feeling when thinking about work.

We haven't had any triangular poo at all. Sounds interesting though. It would be v amusing to take a pic trace and show it to P when she's older.

Stats: 6lb 13 at birth. 17lb 6 when weighed last week (1 week short of 6 months).

I gave DD her first meal out and about today and she looked so grown up sitting in a high chair in a cafe. Todays eating sucess has been roasted peppers! The BLW seems to be going well, DD is really getting the hang of gnawing on food. The place is a mess when she's finished mind. I wish the cats would eat the stuff that ends up off the floor but they turn their nose up at half eaten veg, silly beasts. I spoon feed her porridge in the morning but she constantly tries to grab the spoon or pick up the bowl and tip it straight into her mouth.

Chocolate o'clock I think. veggie I did chuckle at your chocolate theft!

Arti - Do not beat yourself up about this at all. In Canada it is standard for paedeatricians (sp?) to recommend that people do a form of controlled crying or "ferberising" if babies aren't settling themselves by about 4 months. Most of my friends in Canada have done this. It seems in the UK this is much less done/admitted to. Controlled crying is much different than leaving a baby to scream itself hoarse for hours on end. I'm sure that your consultant will not just close the door until DD2 screams herself to sleep! She will gently but firmly teach DD2 how to sleep.

I need to take my own advice though because I get so stressed about DS crying, feeling like I am letting him "cry it out" anytime he is upset and I can't help him settle straight away. My friends in Canada think I am nuts - they all did controlled crying sleep training between 4-6 months and problem sorted!

I have lots to say but no time at the mo but just wanted to say to you Arti, your friends are right, there is evidence that regular extended periods of crying damage babies developing cortisol receptors, however these receptors are fully developed by 3 months so after this time while it is best to meet a childs needs when crying, because crying is them trying to tell you something (ie change my nappy mummy), it does not damage the brain physiology. You could argue that lack of sleep can be damaging to a baby as when we sleep and rest our muscles grow and develop, as well as helping babies ability to process their life experiences through dreaming.

Right back now everyone is settled to sleep here I've had my dinner and just about to watch some crap tele. I've read back but can't remember very much.

PMK it's quite miniscule something like .2mg/ml more for BF than FF. Formula is harder for babies tummies to digest so stays in the digestive system longer, so makes babies feel fuller longer. Also BF babies will tend to drink what they want rather than what it available. Boobs don't actually run out as such as there is always milk being produced but the flow will reduce as letdown settles and the boob reduces it's bulk of built up milk. As time goes on the boob produces exactly enough for what the baby needs (including more hydrating milk when it's hot) if the babies demand increases it just feeds a bit more often for a day to increase supply. I'm not sure the whole deal with what babies were used for the current (though now old) centile charts but they needed to do BF charts to get an idea of how babies should be growing as in the curve of the chart. But as to whether FF are bigger or not I think most babies will grow to the size they are supposed to, as FF mums learn to work out how much their babies want to feed and when they are full.

Oops sent too early, but I read all the post slowly over the evening and now can't remember anything, oh except Lady's company not letting her know about her clients new series. Lady was that little upstart again, do you want me to pay her a visit, I could take her I reckon.

Oh I neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed chocolate, why don't I have any in the house!!!!

Hello all, daisy hurrah and huzzah for a lovely day!

Just quickly adding some stats - DD was 7 lb 3 and at last weigh in at 25 weeks was 15.15, so still fairly little but clambering gradually upwards!

Making the most of a quiet night, going to head off to bed with trashy novel wishing everyone a good night's sleep and lovely smiley babies in the morning!

Morning,

Sorry I haven't read through. Still suffering with my wrist so having to take it easy so not meant to be here this morning really.

Hope you are all ok. I'm off to take painkillers and to get DH to strap up my wrist again.

Hello girls

Sorry for no detailed replies since my return from holiday. Have just about caught up but a couple of things have got in the way of my time. It looks possible that I may be made redundant but as I am not properly back I don't really know the ins and outs yet. I also have a couple of health things bothering me but can't get an appointment with the GP til next Friday.

M contintues to thrive. He's still a boob fanatic, and not really interested in solid food at all so I have given up for a bit and wil try again next week. I am deeply impressed at the gusto with which some of the babies are attacking their nosh! Babies after my own heart. We are all big eaters in our family so hope M sorts himself out.

He does a 6-7 hour sleep til about about 3, then quick feed and back in the cot til 7ish. So much better than before. I heartily sympathise with everyone having a sleep nightmare. Before our holidays, it seemed to be every couple of hours with a feed/ cuddle and I was losing the plot a little. I can't make any useful suggestions, other than to that M often cries for about 15 mins when in cot before going to sleep. If I go and pick him up he is instantly fine, so I think it is just his wind down mechanism. It's more grizzling really I suppose, just indignant at being left alone. Am hpoing he will grow out of it.

Must go and have a bath. I'll try to keep up and post when I can. Sorry for the me me me. I love reading about the thread and do think we were exceptionally lucky to have such a warm and friendly group of mothers having babies at the same time.

Love to you all.

Sybs: sorry about the work sit, when will you know? If it does happen, I hope you get a hefty payout and slip into another great job (or have a well-deserved break). Great news on the sleep, you are giving us hope! I have to say that DS2 isn't actually eating much, just gumming some bits at mealtimes. He is keen on satsuma segments, thanks to whoever gave that tip! Will be doing a baby food shop later: rice cakes, baby porridge and a sippy cup are all on the list.

Kayz: hope your wrist is soon better

Kayz sorry you wrist is still so painful. I was thinking about GP saying it was the Wii, I think it might be more to do with holding and carrying the boys. My left elbow has just started hurting loads, as well has my neck and upper back, I think it's from carrying them and has started being painful now because all that lovely relaxin has just worn off at 6 months.

Syb you sound a bit down. It is hard when things like this come up. It doesn't matter how good the redundancy package is, it's still hard to find that your not needed, a kick in the teeth for all your loyalty to the company whatever there reasons. I would say while it may not effect your redundancy you still have the same rights on Mat leave as you have if you where at work right now. Also because you are on Mat leave they have to prove they are not making you redundant due to your just having had a baby. I'm sure that's not the reason but just to say your employer has to tick all the boxes extra carefully with your redundancy. In theory your job is supposed to be held for you until the baby is 1, so in the case of redundancy they have to compensate for that I think. Verso may know better.

syb that's rubbish. Happening to so many people I know at the moment. I really hope it works out for you. Foolishly I may have created circumstances where I can't go back to my old job because of conflict of interest with DH's new one. Hmm.

Arti I've read that research too. But I think you're talking about doing something really different - helping her to get to sleep and only for a couple of nights. Quite a different thing to a baby learning that no one ever comes when they cry. If you think about the bigger picture think about all the love your DDs are surrounded by all of the time, and that - if you're anything like me - you need to sleep so you can be patient and loving and not grumpy/ill mummy.

LadyT I also have night time panics. I think I'm prone to worry anyway, and having children just makes it worse. Thing I find most difficult is trying to keep any sense of perspective when am so tired/have no time to myself. Scare myself sometimes in short time it takes me to go from 'everything is brilliant' to 'it's all shit'. But that might just be me...

wg I hope things are better for you.

SL I think I've decided that after 2 DCs in relatively short time there's not much chance of body going back (also am 3 years older I grudgingly accept).

Effie hope DS1 is getting the hang of TT. We're starting this weekend and went to buy some Thomas the Tank Engine pants yesterday. DS told the blameless lady in the lift at the shopping centre that he was going to buy some big boys pants and you mustn't wee on Henry .

Hello Bisou good to see you. And njan were you asking about your DH being a SAHD? My DH was when I went back to work full time when DS was just 1. He was brilliant to be honest - and it's done us the world of good because we genuinely understand what it's like to do the other's job. He's really close to DS as well - and quite sad he's unlikely to spend the same sort of time with DD. Our plan is that he's doing the 'main' job this time, and my work will fit around everything else, and then we'll swap again in a couple of years.

DS is still not well - he keeps getting temperatures at night and mopes around during the day. I keep thinking that if it gets worse we'll take him to the Dr but am not sure they could help at all.

I had nightmare beyond nightmare car journey last weekend when I had to drive up to Derbyshire with the 2 DCs on my own. It took six hours. For the last 2 hours they both screamed, and then DS got car sick and threw up all over himself and the seat. Poor lamb. I spent a lot of time talking in my low quiet mum voice. Am never leaving London again. Oh apart from driving to the South of France next month.

Veggie if I'd have known where you live you may have had to contend with us turning up on your doorstep.

Kayz hope your wrist is feeling better. And Trace you are so brave - although would second what everyone else has said - do be careful putting yourself in situations like that.

Pmk good luck with ditching dummy. I shamefully didn't really try with DS, until quite recently he had it for bedtime (but only at bedtime) and gave it up without a fight. Made absolutely no difference to his ability to talk.

Ok. Must do some work now. Have various freelance things I'm trying to do. Hence less time for mnetting. Boo hiss.

hello all. well, sleep is getting worse, as if that were possible. up 6 or 7 times last night - can't remember. she does have a cold, she is barely eating during the day, and at night she is so tired that she barely eats then. i lost the plot this afternoon and cried and cried. madam was a bit confused and then decided to join in - which wasn't the idea. where has my waking once a night baby gone?

we are off to my dad's house in portugal tomorrow. waking at stupid o'clock after no sleep to get diametrically to the other side of london - looking forward to that - not. at least in portugal my dad and his ladyfriend can help out. these past few weeks have been the hell that people made out sleep deprivation was when we announced we were having a baby. and combined with dh's crazy work at the moment, life has been simply awful. i am hoping for better in portugal.

may try to find an internet cafe to catch up while away, but possibly not. hope you all have good weeks.

So sorry to hear that WG, sounds just hideous. i really hope you get a break at your dad's house. No consolation I know but I was weeping this morning for the same reason. It's just relentless and inexplicable. My neighbour this morning said to me, "God it's so hard this mothering lark, isn't it, it's exhausting, I'm struggling to get by on 7/8 hours a night and I'm used to 9 or 10". And she has a 3 week old baby. . Just felt a bit obtuse considering I had just told her I'd been up all night.

Hi Lal, nice to see you, that journey last weekend - you poor thing. I think sticking to London or France seems eminently sensible.

Sybil that's terrible news about work, have they told you when you'll know for definite? Glad sleep better though.

Mom, thanks for the link, will have a proper read over the weekend, I too find that T settle better when he's not picked up, but will start baby bootcamp in earnest next week. I'm just sick and tired of walking him around every nap. And today even that didn't work so we need a new approach. I am just terrified of hearing him cry. Am also a bit worried that he's already set up for a tough time since he used to scream 10h/day in the early days. Ok, so we never left him when he was crying but he didn't know that so hope his little brain not irreparably damaged.

Hope wrist better Kayz and that TT went ok today, Effie. How is life going now? So glad you've found a CM. I will come and visit, I totally promise, would be nice to get T's naps sorted so we don't have to spend the day walking round the streets and can sit down in a cafe!

Oh, and Pingu and I have set a date for the zoo - 29th June. Anyone fancy coming with?

Hi WG. There is definitely a sleeping baby thief about! It is not just you. Everything here has been haywire for about a month now. Oh the hollow bitter laugh I have when I remember my smug self when DS was sleeping 7-4, then a quick feed, then sleeping until 7:30. This was from 7-12 weeks old and since then we have had varying degress of horrendousness on the sleep front. The last month has been the worst.

It doesn't help that pretty much all of my RL mum friends have babies sleeping from 7-7 with just a dreamfeed. Every time another one of them announces that hers is regularly sleeping through, I actually get a lump in my throat and well up. Ridiculous but I am just that jealous! I try to be happy for them, but the envy creeps through.

Hope things improve on hols, and if not that you at least get some help and some sleep.

When you get back if things are still crazy maybe we need to implement a London-based sleep swap whereby we take turns walking each other's babies for an hour so we can at least catch a short kip in the day!? Drastic measures may be the only way to ensure survival.

Spot - Good luck with baby boot camp! For what it's worth, in our house it is the timing of everything that is absolutely key. If I get the nap timing wrong, no amount of pu/pd or shushing or patting can save me. I am having to be much more routine oriented than I naturally am, but DS seems to need it. I have found the babywhispererforum website really helpful with trying to get the awake timings right during the day. The people on there are serious Baby Whisperer gurus!

And I have the same concerns as you about the early days of crying. I didn't have the same colicky craziness that poor you and T were dealing with, but my DS had a very screamy first month or so. I had no idea that babies could fight sleep and was letting him get completely overtired and hysterical. He stayed up for 13 hours in a row when he was 2 weeks old! And I feel so guilty that if I had only known that he needed help falling asleep, I could have saved him all that stress.

Ahhhh, motherhood = guilt I guess. No way around it!

and madam has just vomited her entire feed all down herself after 25 mins of being asleep. going well, then...

thx spot annd mom for sympathy. feel like a sympathy sponge - need to soak up lots at the mo

oh wg am so sorry for you. hang in there. it will get better (this too will pass, this too will pass). hope flight goes well and that you get something of a break in portugal.

trace for your survey DD was 6.5lbs at birth and is 17.6 now. Quite bouncy...

JJ spill about your novel...am trying to plan my holiday reading.

Also arti I'm sure you've got a massive queue of films now, but I really liked juno and in bruges.