May 2009 - we're all here! btw, does anyone know what the Hungry Cry sounds like?

[Momino]

phew! how many threads have we done since last aug?

Oops, sorry posted too quickly because DD2 started waking, that makes a whole 40 minutes this time .

What I need to work out is how to get the daytime sleeping a bit better and a bit less dependent on me all of the time. And then I do I get nights sorted? Should I start a proper bed time 'routine' much earlier to provide sleepy cues or something? And I really need to stop falling asleep sitting up, it's going to cost me a fortune at the chiropractor. And he keeps telling me off!

You'd thing I'd know how to do this, what with it be second time round and all that - but although DD1 was a shockinjgly bad sleeper at night until she was 15 months old she slept beautifully during the day for the first few months.

flippenheck sorry can't give you any advice re the daytime sleeping. was going to suggest a sling but see you are using one. you must be exhausted.

very quiet here at the moment as DS3 and DD2 been at their dad's but due back soon. DD2 has just started drawing people ( so cute )so have framed a picture she drew of her Dad for him

DS3 has finally got an appointment at CAHMS tomorrow after months of waiting. It is presumed that he has ADHD but does not have an official diagnosis yet, but it will be CAHMS that can diagnose him so a big day for us. Once he has been diagnosed I will be able to access help for him and me.

Belgian I was really embarrassed by my reaction to labour and birth this time, my first 2 were difficult and painful but not like this, I was all laid-back and chilled to begin with. I just lost it though when it didn't go as I expected. The MW obviously pretended to go an ask about an Epi for me - I think she knew there was no time for me to have one. I didn't want one anyway . I apologised about 800 times to DH and the MW afterwards . The MW told everyone on Post-Delivery that I had delivered a big baby with only G&A and looked and sounded genuinely proud of me .

DD2 is still amused by me feeding Sophia 'by boobs'. She asks if everyone else needed 'feeding by boobs'.

We've been to York today to collect DD1 & 2 from Granny's, we saw my granddad who was delighted to meet his 3rd great-granddaughter and we saw DH's mum and Nana. Thank God that's all out of the way (families, so stressful).

Blotted DD1 does Tang Soo Do, which is less 'kung fu' than judo or karate and focuses very strongly on discipline. Just a thought, but then if the boys are so outnumbered I can see where the 'Alpha Male' battles come into it, poor lads!

And Belgian I think I have a bucket pelvis too, I certainly have very child-bearing hips

Hello Everyone,

Im feeling a bit better today Grumpy although I am definatley going to the Drs tomorrow as something is just not right down there anymore I think I have been left with a bucket pelvis

I have had to go out and buy bigger clothes as none of my pre-preg stuff fits, is too small, am not impressed, feel like a right heifer!

Corey is currently asleep on his tummy on the sofa, he slept for 6 hours like this yesterday! He does love being on his tummy and is even trying to lift his head and he can turn it from one side to the other already!

Have had a pretty lazy day today in preperation for DH going back to work tomorrow, am so scared of being on my own with them both

Flippineck- no great advice here for improving As sleep but hang in there and it does get better but it is a gradual thing. S is improving all the time but is by no means ideal!

Do you use a dummy? I find it helps calm S and sometimes he will suck it to sleep. Could A be startling herself awake- again i find swaddling good. Apologies if you've tried these things and the following, but they are the only advice i can offer. When A falls asleep on you and you transfer her to somewhere else, try keeping a hand or two on her (or stroke her/pat her) so she feels like you are still there. Gradually reduce the pressure/motion when you feel she is sleeping soundly. Sometimes i hold Ss hands still or stroke his legs to relax them down. If S starts to cry (sometimes its wind) i pick him up, with him on my shoulder, and sway, pat his back, shush etc. When he is calm, i lower him back down, and sometimes continue the patting/shushing, or put his dummy in to stop him crying. I repeat until he is soundly asleep, but sometimes he will just wake himself up so i give up and stick him in the sling. Sometimes he's got too upset/overtired and i've BF him until he's in a deep sleep. I have found the more he is used to sleeping independently, the easier it is to settle him, so it may be difficult at first to get any sleep out of A, but if she managed 40 mins earlier rather than 20, i would take that as a very encouraging sign. Again, when S stirs after 40 mins (when they come into light sleep), I will try the resettling things above, but if he's due a feed or seems to be rooting etc then i'll just get him up, but i am aiming for sleeps of 1-1.5 hours in the day. I have started doing a bath in the evenings and that seems to be helping with the bedtime routine. As for night, I generally cosleep (I could also be found sat up in bed last night) but am finding it easier to transfer him to his basket after a feed (last night i only ended up sat up with him as i fell asleep . It might help to know how long A is awake before she gets tired (S is usually 1.5 to 2 hours). Also when S is in a sling, i pat and shush him to calm him, which i think has also helped me settle him in his basket as i do the same thing. Maybe it's worth observing A when she sleeps independently to see why she wakes up- i know its hard when you have another DD to attend to...hope some of that is useful.

At first, S wouldn't sleep in his basket at all- now he often sleeps 3 hours in the evening and sometimes a few hours in the day/night too. I was just getting fed up of always carrying him or sitting around with him, so i gave it a go . I find the baby whisperer techniques in her books are useful for understanding about baby sleep and how to settle babies.

lol flippineck i started my post by sayomg i'd got no great advice, then waffled on for half a page with various suggestions! hope some of my waffle helps.

That should be saying not sayomg lol.

chocbunnies- I am sure you will cope just fine with 2 on your own - I was bricking having my 3 for half a day on my own last week, and I was surprised how well i coped (I recommend getting out of the house as DCs generally behave better elsewhere- I know you were nervous about getting out and about previously but even just getting to the library or park will help).

Now i have my 3 all day tomorrow for the first time ever - gulp! Planning to go to playgroup in the morning, and a friend is planning to visit with her 2 toddlers in the afternoon.

pula agree that getting out of the house helps and otherwise just prioritising who needs you most. sometimes can get a bit tricky say if DD needs help on to the toilet and cannot leave DS in the room with baby etc but i have muddled through. Haven't yet had all 3 little ones crying at the same time so reckon thats managing lol

pula so that'll be 5 toddlers and 2 adults in your house tomorrow afternoon. Good luck

flippin I think pula has given you some great advice. I agree with her that the more you put A down the better she'll get at it. My C is a bit like pula's S (except for night time), so I use the sling a lot too. C also sometimes just needs to cry herself to sleep during the day. I used to feel guilty about it, but for certain things (like cooking) I can't have her in the sling as it's too dangerous and so I have to let her cry until I have my hands free. Sometimes by then she's cried herself to sleep. A baby sleeping bag like a Grobag works wonders for us at night.

chocbunnies definitely get yourself outside with your 2 tomorrow. It's the only way to stay sane with a toddler and a baby. Visit the park, library or even a m&t group if there's one near. I remember you struggled getting out while you were pregnant, but if you can do it now it would be really good for all of you

We just went for an afternoon drink + pub meal in this pub we've been once or twice before, but earlier in the day. It was absolutely lovely. Everyone was so friendly, the landlord even offered to hold her while we were eating! C was tired and unsettled when the food arrived and one of the other customers held her for me so I could eat! She then got passed around and admired by a few other women. There were a lot of children too and so our older dcs had great fun out in the garden playing on the play structures with them. We'll go back there for sure.

belgian - we also went out for a meal today with my SIL and her 2 kids and S was a bit grisly and fussy with his feeding but I am glad i ventured out, as i have been nervous taking him anywhere other than the shops or baby groups as he's not the most sociable baby.

Yes, not sure having my friend and her two kids round tomorrow is ideal (she told my DH she was coming round) but she loves S so she can take him off my hands for a bit . I am getting a bit fed up at home as DH rarely holds S so it's nice when someone wants to hold him.

Pula - thanks for your fantastically detailed reply! A lot to think about, thanks.

We tried (and keep trying!) a dummy, but despite much persistance she just spits it out all the time. Yes to keeping a hand on her. I think it is partly startling herself awake, I should try swaddling more often - although I'm not very good, she usually fights her way out of the blanket...actually, does anyone use a swaddle 'product' rather than just a regular blanket? I can't seem to BF her to a deep sleep - she'll doze off but very lightly and wake very very easily, no matter how long I sit still with her, that's why I fall asleep every night holding her. I'm sure we'll get there eventually, but atm I'm sloghtly embarassed to admit that I'm not really sure what her natural patterns are, it seems to change every day.

Right, I'll stop this wallowing in self pity about the lack of sleep. I've survived it before and will again. I just thought that because DD1 was so bad I might have earned a good sleeper this time!!

DD1 has been really funny today - she's started breast feeding her doll! She's also started doing some role playing games, where she gets an imaginary muslin, puts it over her shoulder, winds the doll, gives it a bath and so on. I'm sure those of you who have older children have seen this before, but we were amazed at how elaborate it all was, and how long it all went on for.

chocbunnies - I'm sure you'll be fine with two. I was terrified the first time, but we survived...just! Top tip - get out of the house, even just for a walk. I really don't think I could have stayed in all day.

dandy I was wondering about that canula too. You're right in that it's not needed for a baby on light therapy. I can see why the paeds would have suggested ff as they thought baby was severely jaundiced and they might have thought that was an indication that bf wasn't going well, however as they were wrong, feeding shouldn't have been an issue. In my experience paeds are quite quick in suggesting ff top ups and us mw tend to have to put our foot down (or ignore them ) if we feel the bf is going well. It sounds like you're doing really well now too. I know what you mean with the getting ready in the morning. I've been appearing at the school gates before the bell in the morning, something I never managed when it was just the two!

I used my new moby wrap today and it really calmed DS and he had a long sleep in it. The only thing i find funny about them is the amount of fabric involved. As I had it on, i wore it to the restaurant as it was a short walk away but then had metres of fabric trailing on the floor as DH tried to get me out and then back into it- does it get any easier to handle?

x-post pula and flippin.

flippin There are a few (can't remember who) who are using a swaddle pod and are loving it. I'm sure they'll be on here soon to tell you all about it or if you go back a few pages you'll find them talking about it.

pula C's been in more pubs in her short life than the other 2 had at their age She had 2 feeds while we were out there. The other women who cuddled her while she was unsettled brought her back to me fast asleep and she stayed asleep for another hour or so

Oh and I wore my bf dress out and it was absolutely brilliant. I could bf v. discretely. DH even thought C was trying to suckle through the fabric. He didn't notice she was actually latched on and feeding. It was also making me look quite slim, which was great

pula the amount of fabric doesn't change, but you do get used to it I use a gauze wrap which has thinner fabric and so I can store it in my bag if I don't use it. I had C in it this a.m. while sorting the laundry and tidying the kitchen and living room and she was asleep in there for about 1.5h. Oh how I love slings

flippineck- I have a swaddle pod (made by freedom slings) and a miracle blanket as recommended by Jennster and I swaddle with a large pram blanket (arms only). I use all 3 interchangeably to see if one is more effective than the others, but I've not found any obvious differences it terms of length of sleep achieved - if DS2 wants to get his hands out (usually when he's hungry and wants to chew on them) he can get them out of all of them . The main thing is to swaddle very tightly to make it effective. The pod is definitely the easiest to use as you just pull it over their body. It's also the most expensive (and is cold wash only and I don't want to risk a warm wash incase it changes its shape).

I really feel for you- A sounds like a very light sleeper, so no wonder you are finding things hard. Something I've tried before with my other DCs is white noise (fans, out of tune radio etc) which might help? You can also buy CDs which might help?

Actually flippin I should say i use a cotton sheet rather than blanket to swaddle S- I find you can pull it a lot tighter and as its thinner, i don't worry so much about over-heating.

pula sorry, I was getting confused there. I remember now. It just sounds like if the paeds had taken a minute to read your DS's notes properly neither of the incidents would have happened, which is actually quite concerning and will need to be addressed. Also the mws on the ward should have intervened, because they knew how old your ds was and they could also confirm the bf was going v. well too.

Anyway. Better go. C has been crying on and off on my lap. Has had a feed and I think she just needs a little walk to settle

dandy its just that I cant take it anymore, have been expressing for nearly 3 weeks now, it hurts and I am constantly engorged from all the milk I have, no matter how much I express, I do know its better for him to be just on my milk and he was for first 2 weeks but now we alternate between the formula and breast milk, and this week he'll be going onto just formula, also I dont think my milk is enough for him, god i feel awful now, i wish i could keep doing it but its not fair on Madi with me attached to the pump all the time and me being grumpy because Im in pain from engorgement. Think I'll join you all on the weightloss thread, will be over in a bit!

I envy all you who are able to carry your beans in slings, I have a Babasling and have used it a grand total of once for 10 mins but had to take Corey out as he was to damn heavy!!!!

How bad is it to leave Corey sleeping on his tummy? Obviously I dont put him down at night on his tummy but during the day he just prefers being on hs tummy, he's still asleep now on the sofa after I put him down at 4.30, even when I hold him he settles better on my chest on his tummy than being in a clasic lying down position.

chocbunnies- i wouldn't worry about tummy sleeping if its in the day and you are around him to check on him. I wonder if your engorgement was from expressing too often? When i was engorged with my last DS i found the best way to relieve it was to either spread out the expressing sessions (e.g. every 3.5 hours rather than 3, then every 4 hours etc) or to limit the amount i expressed and keep reducing it. I think if you have that much milk, it seems a waste to stop BF him, but if you can express less often, then at least you are not tied to the pump too much. 200ml from one breast is impressive- at the moment i express every evening at 10pm and generally only get 120ml-140ml from both breasts together. Time to pump now!