June 2008: the One Show (almost)

[Essie3]

Try figleaves Abdn.

I will say that once she started dropping FF, CJ did up her intake of fluids from a cup, so do not panic too much. There is a chance that because they are still getting so much fluid from BF that they don't need as much from sippy cups (this is not a medical opinion of any kind!)
I also feel (again, other opinions are available) that you should not worry too much about how much milk they are getting if you do stop BFing, since although you are not going on to bottles, they are now all eating food, which means you can get calcium into them in other ways. Plus (and purely playing Devil's Advocate here) can you really tell how much they are getting when BFing?
I say this as a mother who is currently putting hot chocolate into her baby's milk to try and get her to drink some

And I cannot stress enough how lovely it is to be wearing supportive, attractive and underwired bras again

BDQ- how annoying about the post. Love your photos on FB and have made comments on book thread.

Essie- sounds like BIG progress on the sippy cup thing. And babies are constantly adjusting as far as I can tell ;-) And no, I cannot guarantee the mess mat thing 100%- children are devious and clever.......

Did I miss anyone? [waves to all] Better go asnd get a shower.

Bill- counting the days until Friday. Have a nice time with Ali.

I was in the same nursing bra not fitting boat so I did a cheeky thing and got fitted at Bravissimo (Abdn - I was only just within their sizes -DD!) then popped down the road to Primark to get some cheapo bras to get me through these in between times. Not nursing bras but I only do one feed now so half strip off for that, not to be done in public!

Interesting about the taste of the milk changing when you are pregnant, I was wondering what would happen (not that I am intending to) if I carried on until the new baby was born, presumably J would be back on colostrum, not sure what he would think about that.

We use the ikea cover all type bibs here, I just give them a rinse and hang them up to dry after each meal, every now and then I chuck them in the wash, didn't realise about the ironing thing until I read it on here, they are starting to get a bit worn out now!

I had similar concerns about the suction plate thing just creating more force to flick the plate when it does eventually come off. About a month ago I just started being brave and let J help himself from his plate, initially he was a bit excited about it and tried to tip the plate up but now eats sensibly until he gets full/bored then the plate gets tipped up but if I keep an eye on him I can usually grab it in time.

Sponge - glad to hear everything is OK, your midwife sounds nice.

Abdn - I have dug out my maternity bras which are still white and are smaller than the nursing bras. They were good last week when it was hot and I wanted to wear a vest top. I fear I am rapidly heading back into the land of the a cup too, having briefly been a c cup and rather pleased about it!

Deb - agree about the feeding on flights thing, although on the way back from skiing they wanted P sitting up for take off not sprawled across me as is his want for BF. By the time we took off and the cabin crew were sitting down he was fairly sprawled though . On a different note, I am assuming that as your visit is so short next week you have no time to meet any of us? Can't remember where you are staying. If you did have an hour or two spare I am sure the London gang would love to get together. Clearly you and I will meet in Austria the following week, but thought I would mention it anyway.

Ali I was just being silly with the secret bfeeds: they both happen in bed, with nobody around, so I don't get comments. I'm getting a little funny about it really because I only know 1 friend in RL who has bfed for this long (longer...!) and on here it's sort of normal, but I just mentioned it without thinking to another (middle class, currently bfing no. 2) friend the other day and she sniggered and asked about underarm hair... (I am obviously growing mine as I feel the hairy look goes well with the extended bfing!)

Bras - I gave up and went back to underwired ones about a month ago, and it's fine. I bought some lovely expensive bras in September 07 - was feeling crap after a m/c - but got pg before the month was out, grr...so they were hardly worn. I seem to be back to my normal size (the puckering on my nursing bras were the warning signs!) which is v. flat, although I manage a C cup because I have skinny ribs (I'm a 32, and didn't change in pg or bf). Although I was briefly a 32G, which is the same as Jordan. Abdn I second figleaves, although the best service I ever get is in an independent shop in Aberystwyth. If there is an independent shop near you run by youngish people (rather than the stern ladies in their fifties with upholstered bosoms) then you can get a great service and get measured properly. In Wendy's, they won't let me buy a bra until they've seen it on me.
Maybe I'll sell my hotmilk bras - 3 are fine, but the babydoll one is greyed.

BDQ hahaha, Iestyn doesn't have English books! But seriously, most of them are translated (tough job, eh?). He likes putting his fingers in the holes in The Very Hungry Caterpillar (or Y Lindysyn Llwglyd Iawn as we have here...) and he has a Noah's Ark book he's very fond of: he has a favourite page, the one with Mrs Noah and her children, she's holding hands with the littlest one. Just looked it up - it's Lucy Cousins, and whaddaya know, she's behind Maisie the Mouse. Will look into them too! He doesn't like Nick Butterworth's books, 'all of us...' but he loves reading and books and will happily 'read' by himself in preference to other toys. My Mum - educational expert, primary school incl. infants and preschool, 35 years experience and 3 children of her own (A grade students, 2 PhDs and a chartered accountant, but nobody else in our family ever anywhere even went to uni so she claims it's the good start we were given!) says the best books have big pictures, simple, not too much detail. Ladybird books used to be the best but you can get vintage copies and things now. Iestyn is moving on to Sali Mali now.

BDQ - On the book topic just a quick one to say when we joined the library J got a book bag and a couple of free books. Plus they often have old books for sale for 10p - 20p, usually in pretty good condition. Gives you chance to see which types he likes before forking out. One of our local libraries also does some sort of baby session which is apparently very good but is on a tuesday when I can't get there so might also be worth checking out for that kind of thing.

Essie - all of our feeds have to be secret feeds these days, if anything else is going on he just can't concentrate on the task in hand.

Re books DS loves that not my.... and The very hungry caterpillar as he pokes his fingers through the holes. I haven't read him any life the falp books as I imagine he will tear them off but will give it a go when he wakes from his nap!

It's interesting to see a few of you have decided to stop bf'ing soon. Is anyone going to carry on to extended bf'ing? Ds has about three feeds per day and we are both happy with that so will continue for quite a while I imagine.

Goingto I'm undecided as to when I'll stop, tbh. With 2 feeds per day (both secret, Ktpie - same problems here! ) they don't really get in the way of anything. I know I have an event in July which goes from 5.30-8ish, and I'm thinking of leaving Tim to settle Iestyn without the feed then. But I don't see a reason to stop for ever at that point, so I might resume. That's assuming Iestyn agrees to be settled without a feed anyway!
Good luck with the flap books - Iestyn likes those too, and whilst I thought he'd tear them, actually he doesn't. But he's quite rough with them!

Ali - I would have loved to meet a few more of the June group but I fly into Stansted on Sunday morning, then we drive to Mums in Norwich, nice afternoon watching Ethan play with the kittens ( Mum breeds fancy cats), then Monday we're hitting the shops and hopefully Stepdad will take Ethan for a while, Tuesday morning we're on the early flight back to Salzburg, so sorry no time this time.

Hey we have more space here, some more of you could come whilst Ali's here the next week!

Deb - that is what I thought the case was. Just thought it was worth checking as I felt sorry for you back in the autumn not being able to be sociable with the London/North West/Scottish/Dorset mini groups. I guess you had the Germanic mini group though with Ernest. Did you ever actually meet up in RL? I can't remember now.

We have had a lovely day with Sponge who came over for lunch. I will let Sponge drive home and post, rather than tell you Alex's news for the day

Going I haven't decided to stop BF, but I am thinking about it. A bit like Essie I never thought I would carry on this long. I am also the only person in RL I know who is still BF. This has two effects on me: 1) It makes me feel like a bit of a lentil weaver which is not how I regard myself, so I want to stop and buy pretty underwear etc. 2) It brings out the belligerent side in me and makes me want to carry on BF for some time.

Ktpie isn't there are pregnant and BF support thread? It might be helpful for you.

Hi guys, had a lovely day with Ali - thank you to both of you for making us so welcome, it was nice to hang out with a rough tough boy who gave as good as he got !

Yes, big news here, as witnessed by Ali - Alex took his first two, faltering but unaided steps at Ali's! Of course, I was so excited I completely failed to notice that he was falling forward until he nose dived onto Ali's wooden floor!

I cried when I told dh! (cried about the walking not the nose dive!)

He must have heard us having a conversation about how badly I need him to walk cos I'm struggling to carry him now .

Other big news is that our childminder has been closed for the week due to a case of swine flu in a local school (one of her mindees has a brother at the school, and the CM's assistant has had a cold and persistent cough so is being swabbed for swine flu and, in the meantime, is not allowed to have kids!).

So, an enforced day's leave tomorrow!

Can I be totally self-centred for a moment? DH is going offshore tomorrow for the first time since the helicopter crash in April. I'm feeling very fragile tonight! I'm trying not to be all emotional about it, especially in front of the boys, but it just feels so scary. I want to hold on to him constantly, but on the other hand there's so much that needs to be done before he leaves (dishes, cleaning, recycling etc) and I know we really should do that instead (because statistically nothing is going to happen and he'll hopefully be home in time for the weekend).

on a less me-me-me note, I can't decide when to stop BFing either. I'm the only person I know too - although since no one is feeding in public anymore maybe we just don't know about it in our wider circles of friends.

Ali you've made me very curious about sponge's story - I'm glad you said it was a lovely day so that we're not waiting and worrying...

cross posted with sponge...

AH, big hugs. That must be so hard, and I imagine your feelings are shared by all the offshore workers' wives up there . You know he'll be fine but it doesn't stop you worrying - and I'm the last person to lecture anyone else about worrying about things that haven't happened .

My story won't be that exciting to advanced babies like Fraser who's been walking for weeks!

I can totally understand how you're feeling Abdn. Am I right in thinking there have been hundreds of safe helicopter flights up there since the crash? I always feel like that on planes - I know things can go wrong but I think 'well no planes crashed yesterday or the day before so we'll probably be OK!' It will be great for you to have him back at the weekend.

Well the part-switch to cow's milk went OK today. I BF'd E at 6am to get her back to sleep but then she had milk from the beaker at 8am (had to take the non-spill attachment out though so she could get the milk out!). T had milk in a beaker too and didn't seem to notice he'd had no BF, but he was not keen on the milk and hardly drank any. I even put it in a bottle but no. Neither had a BF at lunch though they went to sleep in the pram as we went out to lunch. Putting them down in their cots without a BF could be a different story but we'll see tomorrow. I BF'd them before bed tonight. Will give it a week and then stop the BF before bed too. I am just going to offer them a beaker of milk at bedtime and let them drink as much as they want.

Going, I thought I would extended BF, but we are going away for two nights in July and again in August without them so I thought it was kinder (for them and my mum) if they weren't BFing then!

Ali, I don't think you need to worry about how much milk they drink. Official advice is 1 pint a day but there's nothing so special in milk that makes it so essential. Google vegan weaning or similar for more info. And as Puree says, we don't know how much they drink from the breast anyway. Best to let them decide for themselves how much milk they want, just as they do with BF and any other food they eat! If you offer him a drink of milk 2/3 times a day, and give him yogurt and cheese, Oatbix and porridge etc then he will get enough calcium. Tahini is also rich in calcium, you can spread it on toast instead of marg (not tried that with my two though - not sure how it tastes!). Sardines are also good for calcium!

Debs, no I am not that worried about T and E's development, it's just when I hear what other babies here are doing, and T and E are nowhere near even though they are the oldest ie saying words, pointing, walking (had progress there this week tho). I only worry that it is because I don't interact with them enough. Our days are filled with meals, nappies, naps, bath etc and after all that is done I need a rest! They just play by themselves in our little play area and I lounge on the sofa (which is also in the play area btw!). Or I take them for a walk. So not really doing anything with them, 'training' them or teaching them anything like I see other mums doing with their pfbs . They are happy entertaining themselves! I obviously try to teach them stuff during meals, like 'drink', 'food', 'more' etc including sign language, but they are not picking anything up! I see other mums forever walking around with their babies holding their hands trying to teach them to walk, well I don't do that so I think it's no wonder they don't walk yet! It just seems false to try to force them, I just want them to come along at their own pace, but then I worry I am doing it wrong! But I suppose when you have more than one child you can't give them that much attention all the time. Once all the other stuff is done I need a sit-down!

Is it wrong that I don't forcibly try to teach them to do stuff do you think?

WRT bras, well I am back to my pre-pregnancy A cup too, so pretty much all my old underwear fits but I am still enjoying my comfy maternity/nursing bras!

AH - I don't blame you at all. I don't like DH going into London on the train: that is what a woos I am. Enjoy your evening together.

Sponge - ahh, that's so sweet that you cried when you told DH. Sorry it was me that saw it and not him. Peter has just conked out: I think he found it tough maintaining his rough, tough image in the presence of a baby that can walk

G&T o'clock I think. See y'all later.

Neenz, don't worry! You can't 'teach' children how to crawl/walk, etc, they do it in their own time. Alex is nowhere near talking - hasn't sounded any discernible words, at all, has only just taken a couple of very faltering steps today, doesn't point, etc, etc.

I think you are focussing on the babies who do do these things and not the ones that don't - common problem for all of us! Your twins are doing great - and don't forget that twins generally hit their developmental milestones slightly later than singletons anyway.

Don't sweat - none of this will matter one iota by the time they're all at school!

Well that's what I have always thought Sponge, that they all do things eventually so no need to worry, so it has surprised me that I have felt anxious about it! And yes, I am sure there are some things T and E can do that these babies who can walk and point can't do - like last night T went to take his own t-shirt off when I was getting him undressed, I was so proud.

Essie, I was thinking about Iestyn settling, and agree it could be how much sleep he has in the day. I had to cut the DTs' day sleep right back at about 11/12mo and it made a difference. I only let them have 2 hours now (12-2pm) and wake them at 2pm even if they went to bed a little after 12. I find they are then shattered enough to fall asleep at 7pm without a murmur. Although last night we had 30 mins of screeching from Esther. I just did CC cos I could tell from the screech that there was nothing wrong with her, it was just so OTT! Drama queen . Tonight we had about 2 mins of screeching. They only has an hour's sleep at lunch though so they were shattered. How much day sleep does Iestyn have?

Sponge- awesome news. Don't blame you for crying and so glad you had a lovely day.

Neenz- I second Sponge as every baby does things in their own time. Cecily was an early crawler but not walking yet. And two is sooooo much harder. I have decided (and this is a secret that I will share only wth you ) that those babies who can talk and walk ad do tricks and so on are the product of the 'pushy parent'. And I'd rather not be one of those. Plus it is very important for kids to learn how to amuse themselves.

News here: am back on Clomid from beginning of next cycle. Eeek. More tomorrow- I like Ali's idea if a G&T

Neenz I think it's maybe because you have two. Iestyn has undivided attention, but with twins then they can distract each other etc. Iestyn won't sit and read a book etc if there are other children around eg at nursery.

Iestyn for the fourth day running had only 1 daytime nap, and that was only half an hour. He settled well but has just been screaming so I had to go in. He overslept this morning, though! Till 8.45!

Ali your comments on bfing are exactly the same thoughts I'm having. How's the underarm hair going though? It's obligatory now, surely?

Sponge excellent news on the walking - did I miss something, how and when did you become sponge again? I reckon it will be extra tissues here on Tuesday!

Abdn thinking of you, and I'll remember you in my prayers tonight. But I'm sure all will be fine - it's the worrying though...

Ali Good God, you're right! How did I miss the G&T time warning? Must observe!

I won't be joining you all in a G&T!

Goingto - I hadn't really thought about stopping BF until I found out I was pregnant, then kept having flash backs to sore pregnancy boobs and think that might be the time to stop.
Ali- I will go and look for the preg and BF thread once I've posted here, thanks.

Sponge - very exciting about the first steps, J managed to balance for quite a while today before he sat down.

Neenz - that sounds like me sat on the sofa letting J get on with it, and he hasn't got a twin to play with (and I haven't got the excuse of twins to look after). If I do that holding his hands walking thing with him he just sits down, waves his hands in a cross way and makes a grumpy noise, so I don't bother!
This afternoon I fell asleep on the sofa and woke up to find him rummaging around in the bin so feeling like a rubbish mother!

Hello to everyone else and have a good evening with your DH Abdn, and an even better weekend when he gets back.
Enjoy your G&Ts!

I'm not a pushy parent in the slightest and Luke can walk - he just kept practicing (and falling over!) until one day it happened. You can't push a child of this age to do something they don't want to - you can just encourage them. It's basically about how much strength they have in their legs and ankles isn't it? Anyway the normal range for walking is anywhere up to 18 months. I don't teach Luke anything which I do feel a bit bad about but he goes to nursery 5 days a week and they have structured play so I'm sure they do it (God I'm a lazy cow!). Also Luke mixes with the older kiddies at nursery so I think he may try to copy them. There are a lot of things he can't do but I always think that he'll do them eventually (I do hope I'm not still pureeing his food when he's 5!)

Sponge - good news about Bill!

Bras - mine are the same size as they were post birth - mahoosive!

Just wtched that sleep programme on Sky+ I will never complain about Luke again (well maybe not for a few days anyway). Those poor families!

What's happened with Aberdeen - just been backwards to find out and can't see it - sorry must have missed it - hope everything's OK. (Essie's remembering you in my prayers line...)

Aberdeen I can only imagine how you must be feeling tonight and its totally understandable.

Thanks for all the book comments. I've got a shortlist of some to get in for his birthday and will watch out for others in the library. I'm going to clear the bottom shelf in one of the bookcases in the living room (which is right next to S's playzone, for those on FB!) and put his books there so he can pull them out to his heart's content. He has got a ton of books already - a few he loves, a load are average, and too many of them need to be put away till he's older - but a few more board books never did anyone any harm. Ktpie we've got our free bag of books from bookstart scotland so I think that'll be the same thing. It's very popular here - the HV's give out the bags.

Am desperate for some new undies actually. Keep trying to put it off until I'm in better shape. I've got soooooo many bras in different sizes I could open my own second hand bravissimo shop.

Thanks for comments on photos puree (and others too!)

Essie S is surprisingly ok with the flap books too. He's got Dear Zoo and he's really loving lifting the flaps.

Deb I hope you have a fab (if short) visit to the UK!

Congrats to Alex Sponge and all the other babies who've taken the first faltering steps.

Neenz I sometimes worry that I dont spend enough time interacting with S - but I'm absolutely sure you're a great mum and you have no reason to be concerned. I gave up on the sign language stuff an age ago, and now when he's in his high chair we concentrate on fun stuff like high five, clapping and peekaboo! I promise I'm absolutely not a pushy parent though puree! Usually when he's playing I'm doing chores/surfing on my ipod!

A question or two from my disappearing post last night, if you'll indulge me ladies...

I made S some chicken nuggets the other day. All fresh and home made (you'll remember I dont cook so I was feeling all domestic goddess like). I tried them when they were freshly cooked, the meat was soft enough to bite into for a rapidly approaching one year old. Kept them in the fridge overnight, heated them in the microwave the next day and bang - all hard and chewy and no good for S. They're suitable for freezing but not sure how best to reheat them afterwards without making them all dry and chewy? Help?!

Also on the milk front. Sorry if I've blethered on about this before. S currently on 3 8oz bottles a day. Particularly since the nicer weather started he's been draining each bottle. I've very loosely followed a GF routine in the past, so was quite keen to get S off his mid afternoon bottle a while ago.

However, because he fell from 75th centile to 25th centile (which he's stayed at for 4 or 5 months now), I've been really wary about easing off the mid afternoon bottle. I started giving him a yoghurt mid-afternoon to see if it would fill him up and he'd take less milk, but to no avail. He's a good eater in that he can manage a range of textures, finger foods etc, but he never eats very big quantities. DH took him to get weighed today and they were really pushing to cut out the mid afternoon milk, give it to him in a cup blah blah, and that would encourage him to eat more at tea time. They also keep banging on about him being really pale but not really discusing what/why this is an issue. I'm very pale myself so I dont necessarily think its odd.

Anyway, I am keen to start cutting out the midafternoon milk because I dont want him to keep taking 3 bottles a day for too much longer. But I'm worried that I'll deny him nutrition he's looking for? I also dont know if there is any point at all trying to get him to take milk from a cup (I've tried without success). Any suggestions/thoughts welcome. I dont want to post on the bottle feeding boards, because I'll get a lecture about HVs knowing nothing, babies should drink milk as long as they want, if I'd BF it wouldn't be a problem blah blah. I respect people with those views incidentally, its just not all of them on those particular boards will respect and understand mine!

Bloody hell, its 10pm - where has my evening gone!

Amber - S's crawling and standing up really kicked off when he started nursery, so I think that can have a lot to do with it.

Amber, you make me laugh! We can be the lazy mothers gang . I watched that sleep programme too, but only the last 20 mins or so. I felt very sorry for them!