December 2008 Coven - white light and basket cases

[EffiePerine]

Seeing as LadyT broke the thread...

Evening all. DH had a bit of a shocker, I went to choir at 4.30 leaving a dd with a fairly full tum (fed at 2 and 4) and some EBM, ready to go to bed as usual. She yelled solidly from 6 until 7.30 apart from about 10 mins while she had a bath, totally refused the bottle and fell asleep from exhaustion I came in at 7.50 and poor guy had totally dead arms, she'd conked out on his lap at a funny angle and he daren't move...! I gave her a big feed direct from the taps and we'll just see how the night goes...

Brilliant news about your sister Jam hurrah for her docs putting her onto someone for follow up.

veggie I sooo love the Concords - "Is this some kind of a jest?" DH and I ask each other all the time! "Present".

trace that sounds so hard about dealing with Lucy in special care, she looks so bouncy and radiant in your pics now

Zoe/trace well you know my feelings re weaning advice though on being held near some yummy smelling strawberries today, dd did attempt to lick them! We met up with her godmother and baby M on Friday and she ate a whole banana all by herself! And quite a big one too There's some really sensible advice on your thread (well I think so, not having any experience of this it's more "advice that says what I want to hear"...) DD has been feeding more often - every couple of hours - but I'm not sure if that's just a late growth spurt, she certainly showed no interest when we tried her on puree, and isn't really up to sitting on her own yet. So we're not going to fight to make her take food is she's just going to shove it back again.

her 'pattern' is as follows:
6pm feed, 7pm bath and another feed, 7.30pm asleep (this is the only regular part!!!)
11.30ish awake and windy, needs feeding to get settled back (not usually that hungry)
thereafter on and off boob for much of the night (in bed with us)
6 or 7am up for the day (if 6, I try to feed her back to sleep from 7 til about 9 and kip next to her )
might have a nap 10-11, might be 11-12, depends on what we're doing
next vaguely regular appointment is a nap at about 2-3 or 3-4, if the former I try to get her to have a power nap 5-6ish so she's not utterly wired come bedtime.
Rest of the day depends very much on when she woke up, usually feeds about every couple of hours and sometimes naps, sometimes doesn't.

Not really very helpful there in statistical terms!! TBH I'm still having to feed her to sleep for a lot of her naps, so she's quite a snacker. She'll guzzle for about 5 minutes and then be super-distractable, so it's very hard to get her to feed any longer. There's a thread about it here with some helpful advice.

Following on from lots of people on here, have decided to try not to be too bothered about feeding her to sleep so much. She's only tiny, and soon I won't be able to any more - it's such a privilege and a luxury to be able, halfway through the afternoon, to lie on a bed with my little girl, feed her to sleep and then have a kip with her! When the time comes that she has to be able to get to sleep on her own, well we've got the NCNapS which has lots on how to wean them off the nipple, and we'll try it then.

NCNapS???

sorry - the lady who wrote No Cry Sleep Solution also has a book on naps - basically how to help your baby nap on their own rather than always needing boob, or being pushed around, or being in a bouncy chair. As with NCSleepS, I'm too scared to actually bite the bullet and do anyhting but she does have a technique for getting baby off the nipple which seems to gradually help them get to sleep without needing boob/bottle/dummy, which will be helpful in the future.

Oh meant to say that bath seat of WGs is the same as mine and is brilliant. The boys are loving having more room in the bath.

Just going to bed now ds2 is either unwell or has a tooth coming through have just managed to get him off to sleep he has been really unsettled.

On BF babies routines. Ds2 wakes around 8 to 8.30 at the moment has a feed just after 9 and goes down for a nap at 10ish for 1 hr 45 mins ish. Then feed around 1ish then nap at 2 then sometimes another nap at 4 if his 2 pm nap is too short. Feed at 5 pm bath 5.45pm then top up feed and asleep usually by 6.30-7pm then feed at 10-11 (when having growth spurt wakes at 8.30 ish for a feed). Then usually sleep til 5am then feed then back to sleep until 8-8.30 though occassionally wakes for another top up feed around 6.30am. During the day he does also have little extra feeds but he will generally always have the feeds I described. The times also reflect him having to fit around his brother's nursery run and meal times. Although I try as much as possible to be flexible. I keep thinking I need to fit an expressing session in. I think soon I am going to try ds2 with a beaker of EBM as not much point trying a bottle. There is one we used for ds1 which had a soft spout and then we slowly worked up to the hard ones.

Spot sorry you are having friction with your mum. I understand. I think you and I have similar relationships with out mums. Also I love seeing your name. Makes me think of lovely glasses of wine.

Just had a giggle DH has started referring to the boys as ds1 and ds2!

Right better go to bed night night.

Oh and Kayz your dad sounds perfect for my ds1.

Whew! Just about managed to catch up - we're trying to settle into a new routine here and havde not added in MNing time so my time on the comp is a bit sporadic!

Spot: that's fantastic news about your sister. Does she get any extra scans and things now? She must be so nervous about the rest of her pg. Lovely that T's cousin will be a year younger - am sure they'll be great cronies in time . I'm also missing you all here in Essex, have met some perfectly nice people at playgroups but it's a little daunting thinking of starting over with getting to know people. PD has made it though - not sure if she's managed to post for a while but it sounds like her housing sit has been sorted . Of course the solution is to move to Essex . When are you coming to see us?

Sleep: well, it seems like we're mostly on the same page at the moment (that's the chapter 'Miraculous Non-Sleeping babies'). DS2 is waking after he's first gone to sleep then refusing to go anywhere near his own bed {sigh). I have no idea why he is happy to sleep there at the beginning of the night only to scream blue murder if I attempt to put him anywhere near there after he wakes up - he just wants to sleep in bed with us. Which is understandable I suppose, only DH gets worried about squashing him and I end up stiff from being curled round him. This too shall pass. Hopefully we can put up DS1's blackout blind soon, it's not helped by him waking at 5:30 or 6 every morning.

Arti and lal: my mun has also had oestrogen dependent breast cancer (now thankfully clear), and my grandmother had ovarian cancer, and no-one has mentioned a link with pregnancy or mastitis - I thought pg (and esp breastfeeding) was supposed to have a protective effect? When's you appointment Lal? And Arti: could you ask for a referral if you're concerned?

Have forgotten everything else, except great news on your sister Jam .

Morning,

ZJ We tried DS2 with some baby rice yesterday. He promptly spat both tiny spoonfuls out and refused to open his mouth again. So if you do try DD with some then I wish you more luck!!

On sleep patterns, DS2 had slept through every night for 2 weeks until Wednesday. He has since woken about half 3 for a bottle. Hence trying to give him some food. I might make him some apple puree today but not holding out any hope at all!!

Last night was awful. At 10 to 1 somehow one of DS1's toys went off. It is a musical train and it moved from one side of the room to next to DS1's bed. DH checked and DS1 was asleep!! Then DS2 woke up at half 3 and went back to sleep when I went to get his bottle. Then he woke at half 6. I want my sleeping through baby back!!!

Hope you are all enjoying the bank holiday!

Good morning all!

Raining here so no idea what to do with DD, maybe a play place but they are normally hellish when the kids are off school.

Sleep patterns......DS 'normally' in bed between 7-8pm. Then can wake anytime between 1-3am, then till about 6ish although on occasion he might wake at 1am and then go 2 hourly feeds. He feeds during the day every 2/3 hours and may or may not nap inbetween feeds.

I was so hung up on routine for DD whereas I am trying to relax and pretty much let DS find his own 'routine'. He's still looking for it

Rather an 'interesting' night here, in the best sense. After her meltdown and mammoth feed at 8, dd woke as usual at 11.30, had another fairly big one and was able to be put back in the cot almost asleep and settled herself! Then woke at 3, but wasn't actually hungry, just a bit windy and so had a cuddle and came onto the bed next to me (still in grobag). Woke at 4 for a bit of milk, settled on the boob, then up at 6.30, DH took her for a play while I caught up a bit, then she fed to sleep with me at 8 til 9. So looking at it, that's pretty much 4 hourly. Blimey! She hath Gina Forded herself!

It might not sound it, but for us this is a pretty good night! What was really interesting was that she wasn't really hungry a lot of the time - so might need to miss her 6pm feed and just make the bedtime one a bit earlier and longer, so it tides her over for longer.

Have a lovely bank holiday everyone, we're off swimming then visiting dd's godmother for a 'hooray for baby M' party

Good morning everyone, and happy bank holiday. I?m feeling a lot better about myself again today, after yesterdays wobbles, in fact just writing it all down helped me get everything straight again in my head, so thanks for letting me fill up the basket, and also for all your nice and positive responses. Kimberley I love it that your DS was making mmm noises, I have a picture in my head of a lovely chubby baby rubbing his belly with happiness . Trace E has also never slept through (well about twice), so like P isn?t regressing at all on that one. JJ I?m another one guilty of enjoying a lie in with DD once DH has gone to work, but as I think it?s a treat that I probably won?t be able to enjoy with any others that come along I?m making the most of it. I agree with the distractions, I?m trying to make a conscious effort to feed DD in a calm environment because otherwise it is guaranteed to be a pointless exercise.

I was reading up on weaning yesterday (in my flap) and my book said that at first it is start a positive relationship with food and eating, so it must be a positive experience, and I found some useful info on Kelly mom that I thought I?d share. So, from all your advice I have decided to keep DD nearby when we eat, so she can dive in at any time she wants to. I also fed her more regularly yesterday in case she is hungry, but she still woke at night as normal, I?ll try that for a couple more days to see if it does make a difference. I might try a bit of baby rice to test her tongue. And as long as she?s content, I will be too. Worrying and wobbling, like I did yesterday is just a waste of a sunny day. And (and Trace, how lovely was that lady on the thread? I have sent her virtual kisses)

Trace you coped with so much when L was little, I hadn?t realised all that you went through. I am full of admiration for you and your DH, and I think L is a little cracker, I love your stories about her!

Lal I laughed when I read about the man taking the snake for a walk because I visualised a snake with a collar and lead on

Spot/Veggie I agree that relationships with parents become weird (not necessarily bad, just different), I?m looking for my parents advice and approval a lot at the moment, but then being a stubborn thing, I get cross if they tell me something I don?t want to hear. A few years ago, my Mum told me that she actually used me and my sister as some form of control over her parents, as they?d been mega controlling of her all her life until then and we were the first thing she had that she had control over, so I guess everyone finds that something changes when a new little person comes along

Effie I do try not to criticise, but your routine is severely flawed without any MN time scheduled in

JJ yay for the good night and the GF baby

OK, I?m going to make the most of the napping baby and clean the bathroom ... may be gone a while ...

Hello. Wow, hard to keep up on here and time seems to be flying by at the moment.

Sleeping patterns - have regressed to 2-3 hourly over this weekend but prior to this approximately -
Feed at 0800 after this play and nap (rocking to sleep) at 1000 (for 40mins).
Next feed 1100 - play then nap at 1330(sometimes 40mins, sometimes over an hour).
Feed at 1500 -play then little nap 1700.
Next feed 1800 and bath (not every night) into Grobag and story. Sleeps then downstairs in moses basket and tends to wake for feed 2100-2200. Wakes once in night 0400 ish and up again at 0800. Not moved to his own room yet as want to sort out a chair first so I stop feeding in bed. All feeds bf - which seems to have become more painful recently ? stronger sucking as feeds much quicker now.

I'm the only one in baby group not to be weaning yet. In a meet up last week one 5month old was happily sucking/chewing on a chocolate biscuit - had to hide my shock (was planning to be a mean mum and no chocolate (or v rare) for as long as possible - but I was also planning not to co-sleep, let him see a tv and to have a routine by now - v naive first time mum).
ZJ - I found your thread on weaning v helpful - that other lady was lovely.

Have had some time off sort of - one day to go on a course (my Dsis had DS and luckily he took the ebm well although I had to nip to the toilets twice to express - funny pouring it away down toilet when in early days cried when I accidently spilt ssome!)and on Friday to go to Bob Dylan concert where too much cheerfulness consumed!!

Spot and Jam - a relief to hear good news about your sisters.
Effie - I hope you are settling in well.
Lal and Arti - am sorry to hear about your breast scares - Arti - I would go back to GP with a list of questions as v unfair to have made those comments without expecting you not to worry.

Hmmm - had more to say about duckings (v cute Kayz), snakes !!!, Flight of the Conchords, lists in our heads and in-laws. But want to look at my tax (normally leave til Nov/Dec time) and getting peckish so will sign off. Hope everyone had lovely day.

Evening ladies. Had a brilliant day after a wakeful night for poor DS2 I think he has my cold so woke a couple of times and was difficult to resettle which is unusual for him. I think if it isn't a cold then he has a tooth about to launch, one of the lumps on his gum seems bigger.

Anyway still had a great day ds2 actually slept in til 9 after his wakeful night then when he woke dh let me go back to bed and I slept til 11!!!! I feel 100% better today, the only sign of my cold is this cough.

We then went to the ladies FA cup final and Arsenal won. Ds1 loved it, the atmosphere was brilliant and he got rght into it all with the cheering and clapping these clapper things they gave everyone, the 2nd Arsenal goal was right in front of where we were sitting so he saw it really well and jumped up when they scored shouting hooray, it was so cute. Ds2 slept through the first half, the only thing he did when the crowd roared the first goal was to drop his dummy, but even that didn't wake him up. And he quite like coming with me when I jumped up out of my seat n celebration of their 2nd goal. We watched the trophy celebration and there was loads of music and DS1 just constantly had a huge grin on his face he loved the whole thing. He has never sat through a whole live match before and he a brilliant he never got bored or whined he was great. Was a nice fun family day out!

What has everyone else been up to today.

ZJ glad your feelng better, but don't beat yourself up we wouldn't be human if the weight our responsbility didn't freak us out.

JJ she's not a GF baby she's a baby who has been allowed to find her own rhythm, now bring on a couple of restful nights for mummy babyJJ.

Speaking of GF, well the lite version anyway, when is Turnips ISP going to get sorted I miss her.

Finally you all now I don't believe in bad mothers on here but I have to say Effie is coming close to the label, get sorted with the MN time, if you don't I'll be forced to contact child services and report you as a bad mother!!!

Modern I think a chocolate biscuit at 5 months is a bit unhealthy. We also have let some of our beliefs go by possibly we aimed to high and maybe we are more realistic now. I think it is good to try to still have them as long as you don't judge others by them. We let DS1 watch TV but I think as we oringinally didn't want him watching loads we are aware of how much and more importantly what he watches. He can have chocolate but didn't have any until he was 18 months old and we have always been strict about when he has it not before a meal etc and how much he has. However we have friends who aren't so strict and their kids are fine but I think it is still good to have ideals to try to stick by, but being flexible is good.

Sounds like a lovely day veggie. DS's first (and as yet only) football game was at Arsenal. I used to play quite a lot of football and have a soft spot for Arsenal ladies as their coach used to help us out. Glad they won.

Should probably be asleep . But just wanted to say yay for JJ and ZJ - I think you pretty much only get to nap with your first baby. Am so pleased to hear that you're enjoying it. Makes me all sappy for when DS was small.

Day for us usually pans out...
7:30 ish feed
9 ish nap for 45 mins
11 ish feed
12 ish longer nap (hour or so)
1:30 ish feed
then sleeping whenever we're out and about, then
5 ish feed
then
6:30 feed before bed.

She wakes about 6:30am, or probably would do later were DS not charging around our bedroom proffering clothes for either DH or I (most of the time DH - that's my boy ) and shouting that he wants to go downstairs.

We've dropped the night feed. And I always cuddle her to sleep at night. Because I like to .

Lovely to see you back effie am sure settling in will get easier in time. But can't be easy.

My appointment is next Monday. And am doing an ok job of putting it out of my mind. Not least because worrying about it isn't going to change anything apart from potentially spoiling our last few weeks before DH is at work all the time.

Wishing you all good nights.

Also modern good for you on sticking to your guns on weaning and also looking at your tax. I filed this year's return at 15:30 on 31st Jan. And am avoiding sorting out in protracted wrangle with them about tax for previous few years. Sigh. Those brown envelopes make me feel ill...

Good morning all,

DS was a little sod last night, every night is different at th emoment and its so frustrating. He took a bottle of EBM of DH (despite refusing for the past 4 days) asleep for 7pm. He woke at 11pm so I fed him but he refused to go back to sleep, laughing at me, gurgling etc. He finally settled at 12ish, but was awake again from 2-3am, andd then up for the day at 5am. So I am very tired this morning

Right need to sort out Christening for DS today, so need to get my head in gear and get organised. We had a huge affair for DD (was like a second wedding and totally ridiculous but it was what DH wanted). But this time we are doing it my way, just immediate family and then back to ours for a BBQ - weather permitting. I refuse to have DH invite a load of his 'friends' who know nothing about our son, including his name!

Hi everyone, 3 days away & so much to catch up on! Hope everyone had a nice bh, we went to the beach on Sunday. Ds1 loved it, fishing in the pools & collecting rocks & shells. Made me wish we lived nearer!

veggie glad you had a good time at the football. I saw a bit of it on tv yesterday & thought of you!

jam I am so happy for your sister, what a fab dr she has!

spot I had a hard time with ds1 letting anyone do anything, now with ds2 I just hand him over . It does take a while to be able to relax & trust someone else to look after your dc's. I think the first time I left ds1 with my mum I wrote out pages of instructions .

zj I'm glad you're feeling a little more confident again about weaning. It is such a tricky issue of when to do it.

MoM ds1 didn't have chocolate until he was 2 [mean mummy] but he doesn't go mad for it now as some people told me he would . He never asks for chocolate & realises it is a treat.

NJAN sorry no help on the tiredness front, if you do find something let us know!

We've decided to try & regulate ds2's naps a little more. Atm they're at different times & lengths every day, so am going to try & get a bit more continuity with them.

Re weaning, we did try ds2 with a bit of baby rice but he didn't know what to do with it. It was just sat in his mouth until I scooped it out again! Guess we'll be leaving it a little longer!

Morning,

Veggie I watched the match yesterday. I did look out for you though!! DS1 loved watching it and kept cheering at anything!!

MoM DS1 has chocolate occasionally. He first had it at 9 months old when he nicked a bit from my neice's advent calendar. He does love the stuff but he asks for apples and bananas more.

We had another night of waking. DS2 woke at half 2 and finished a full 8oz bottle. So he is obviously hungry. I did think he was maybe needing to be weaned but he just dribbles the food down his chin!!!

Hope you are all well.

MoM DS1 does have chocolate, but generally flapjacks, and those small cadbury fingers as treats rather than big lumps or whatever. He didnt have it until he was well over a year, but then I thought, I love it so much myself, why deny him
Veggie you are brave. I'd have been worried about my own crowd control, but sounds like a great day out

We normally have cheat steamed sponge chocolate pudding at least once a week as follows
(ignore if you dont love puddings)

50g SF flour, 50g butter, 50g sugar, 1 egg, dash milk - beat together. Pour on top of small microwaveable dish containing jam, syrup or bananas (IKEA plastic mixing bowls are good). Microwave FP for 2 mins (850W) Enjoy with custard. For chocalte version, replace 7g of flour with cocoa and add cocoa to custard for chocolate sauce - yum)

I love puddings. Couldnt do without them.

I'm feeling very sad about DS2 starting nursery - thought it would be easier this time round, but I dont think so. How many of you work and how many are staying at home full time ?

NJAN that sounds delicious, will give that a try this week! I love puddings as well, I'd have one every day if I could!

Btw, I'm a SAHM, gave up work with ds1 & will hopefully be able to stay home until ds2 goes to school. Having said that, I'm studying atm & once I qualify will be able to run antenatal classes. But that I can at least work around the boys and set my own hours to some extent.

NJAN DS will be starting nursery on a p/time basis when I go back to work in August. The thought of it makes me feel sick which is silly as DD loves it and its one of the best things we ever did sending her there. I try not to think about it tbh. When does he start?

BTW DD not a huge chocolate fan really. She was never really allowed it till she was about 18 months. I was really obsessed by what she was given when she was weaned.

However, she now a fan of the lollipop and dare I say it...Haribo type sweeties I blame my Dad he always has them in for 'Grandad's favourite girl'. I used to get really worked up about him giving them to her but now I just smile, my Grandad was always getting us sweets when we were little. I just try to make sure that she doesn't get them of us very often.

Think it was Modern asking about chocolate rather than me, though I should be asking about when babies can eat chocolate because given the amount that DS consumed by proxy in utero and through breastmilk I think he will have developed quite a taste for it by now!

NJAN - I will be going back to work when DS is 10-11 months. I am in denial! I live in an area where all nurseries are over-subscribed but I can't seem to get my head around putting his name down for any. I just don't want to think about it.

Here is my addition to the feed/sleep "routine" (use the term very loosely). I am breastfeeding, BTW:

~05:30/06:00 - DS peeps, I stick the dummy in
07:00 - Feed and up for the day
09:00 - Nap (maybe 40 mins)
10:00 - Feed
12:00 - Sometimes a small feed and nap (anywhere from 40 mins-2 hours, longer sleep if he is in his bed but shorter sleep in the buggy if we're out)
~13:00/14:00 - Feed
~15:00/16:00 - Nap (20-40 mins)
~16:00/17:00 - Feed
~18:00/18:30 - Bath, bottle of expressed BM
~19:00 - Bed
~02:00 - Feed (lately just the one feed at 2:00, but for a long time was feeding at 12:00, 3:00, dummy at 5:30, up at 7:00)

Bookmarking have only read up til 9am. But just wanted to say thnking of you Lal, you don't sound your usual upbeat self on here, hope this waiting and worry will be for nothing. I wish I could pop down to Greenwich park for a coffee with you. Where do you play football, did Vic Akers help you

Kayz the game was great. It will be on there again next year I think, hopefully the Arsenal girls will be there again. I had a go at feeding Ds2 during the game but there was too much going on a he got distracted. I had my arsenal ladies shirt on with a big rain jacket thing over the top. I just zipped up the jacket in case he decided he wanted to try again so baps were out and ready for action under the jacket with shirt pulled up and bra unclipped. Yes you guessed it, when the trophy presentation was on I decided to show my team colours by revealing my shirt but when I whipped my jacket off I revealed a little more!!!

Veggie - lol at your over exposure You seem to have a habit of giving people more than they bargained for!

I'm feeling exhausted today. My nights are getting me down a little - I go through these phases as you are aware and today I'm struggling with it. Two friends from church have organised a 'prayer and pamper' evening tonight (not everyone's cup of tea I know! Involves doing girlie lovely things and praying for our friends...). I was planning on going and taking my phone so dh could ring me to come and feed P when she wakes up, but I've just rung to say I'm not going. Ended up in tears on the phone. I'm just so tired all I want to do is sleep. If I went I would just feel grumpy because I would be wishing I was in bed! The thing that makes me feel worse is that these 2 friends have got 4 Gina Ford babies between them and I'm sure they must be thinking I could be doing things differently so that P would feed less and sleep more at night. Actually they would be mortified if they thought I thought that. They are both lovely and supportive - I'm just imagining this pressure and then worrying about it. Sorry...me me me.
Veggie I guess I won't mention the fact that I am (by birth) a Man U fan ...have you seen the score?