November 08 - Say it LOUD.......We're shades of GINGER and PROUD :0)

[LackaDAISYcal]

This do??????

rosa, I've been meaning to ask you for ages - whereabouts in Italy are you? I studied Italian at university and lived in Trieste for 6 months and loved it. Is your DH Italian? Hope you don't mind me asking!

I cant recall ever being given 'treats' for being good when I was young. I was just musing about this and I honestly cant remember that ever happening. I can remember things like my mum threatning to chuck all my toys out in a big black bag if I didnt tidy my room (but of course that never happened)

I agree with the previous poster about the amount of business in parenting now and ppl so afraid of 'getting it wrong'

I had a nice valentines lunch yesterday as hubby was working in the evening. It was just something nice to do.

MerryM, I've just read the Alfie Kohn article on praise as well - can't say I agree with him. Basically he is saying that we shouldn't praise children (at all), as this doesn't allow them to evaluate what they have done themselves. So if we tell them they have done well, they only think they have done well because of our judgement, they haven't decided for themselves whether they have done a good job. He also suggests that by praising them for a particular task they have done, they are likely not to do as well on that task the next time. I just can't get my head around the idea of not praising children at all. Instead, he reckons we could offer comments on what they've done, rather than praise, stating fact rather than how WE feel about what they've done. E.g "Oh look, you've tied your shoes up by yourself". Hmmm, just not convinced. My parents praised me and my bro loads as children and I don't feel that it has had any kind of negative effect and I find myself praising P for the tiniest little achievement. Any thoughts?

I am in Venice and yes married to an Italian- no problem asking - My dh did is military service in Trieste !
We have been out dressed as a bee and met up with minnie mouse and red riding hood and had a ball she is shattered!!

Juanitad I'm with you on the A.K thing. I can't say I ever felt "manipulated" by my parents when they praised me. I simply felt secure, and loved.
To counter this, we were also expected to say please and thank you, ask to get down from the table etc.

P.S. I work for an American company, and loathe the phrase "Good Job!" It reminds me of doing web-based IT training...

rosa Venice - how impossibly glamorous!!

Evening all

I haven't had a chance to read the AK stuff but if it means no rewards/praise etc, then I am stuffed Bribery/threats/rewards/praise are about the only things that DS1 responds to - in fact he has started going up to Sam and saying 'I am very happy with you' - no idea where he gets that from

I am just passing through but wanted to share my 'cute' Sam moment from earlier. I picked him up out of the travel cot and I was sure he had had a dummy in when we put him in there. I picked him up and he was sucking on his hand, no dummy in sight...it wasn't anywhere obvious in the cot so I was a bit baffled....looked down and Sam was clutching it for dear life in his left hand

Juanitad That's not quite what AK is getting at. If you want to simplify it, what he's suggesting is that the pleasure/satisfaction a child gains from an achievement should primarliy be from the satisfaction they derive from the achievment, not simply from the praise they receive for doing it.

Shoe example- I can give you a direct one from a conversation between DS and I- I had been trying to get him to put his shoes on for ages, so this time I just said his shoes needed to be on when I got down stairs for us to go catch the bus..
me - hey you put your shoes on all by yourself
ds yes! (big smile)
ME how do you feel about that?
ds great!
me- I'm so pleased for you, now let's go.

sounds naff, but previously it would have taken ages of discussion to get him to put the shoes on and me saying thank you, well done.
After that conversation I just recited, he now put his shoes on himself and derives obvious satifaction from doing so.

If you read his books, AK is not a parenting guru at all, he does not argue that one particular method is the only way.

You can prolly pull bits out and argue against them, but if you've ever tried to get a 3 year old ready to leave the house on time, and do it without any arguments, coersion, bribery, nagging etc. you may find his basic principles very useful. I know I have.

Evening everyone

It's been quiet on here today. We have had a lazy day, went swimming this morning then just lots of playtime in house.
My little man is 12 weeks today, just when I thought I had his sleeping sussed, we have gone back to being up a couple of times overnight. We will get there eventually.

I am fascinated by discussions on AK. I think I will wait and see what style I adapt. Like someone else said if you take principles from different theories then you can adapt what suits your DC best.

Hope the christening went well ladyb

Trying to catch up on Sat & Sun posts. EEK!
dozymare - What you say about DCs different personalities is really interesting. Love seeing A's personality developing but not enough to compare yet. Your DS1 did such a sweet thing. You must be really proud. It's amazing how the kiddies can go from loving, to mardy, to nasty, to silly, to amazing and being so proud (sure there's more) all in 5 mins!
dozymare more babies - know what you mean about telling everyone no more but think you would like more. I feel like 2 is enough for me strength (emotionally, mentally and physically) wise and think I am past the getting up in the night and not even got to teething or the toddler tantrums but when A smiles or acts silly at me (every time I look at her) I cant help but think "I wonder if I just got caught". Just that we dont "plan" to have anymore (£ also a factor), been talking about snip and selling all DS and soon A baby stuff on ebay including spare care seats but part of me is sad at this being "the end" and I'm sure if faced with a "surprise" I would find the strength somehow. [confused and dont know how to tell DH emotion especially as sold lots of good baby stuff for pitance]
ceebee - EEK! at DS poo incident. My DS loves stripping naked even when got company . But luckily stuff not got put everywhere. If your DS is ready for toilet training GO FOR IT! Been trying ages with my DS because I thought ready and still more in nappies than pants because cant be trusted and has accidents. I think combination of doesnt get it and cant be bothered if doing something else.
daisy - Please see doc if not done so already.
rosa - wow Venice and married to an italian. Well impressed and jealous!
AK - sorry ladies cant find the time of be bothered with reading another parenting thing telling you what to do and making you feel like a bad parent if you dont do what it says! Now on DC2 I've realised you have to make your own choices as you have to live with them! SORRY FOR RANT just that some people get really upset by such "advice" and feel bad and it bugs me.
ladyb - Hope you ok and able to think things through. Not because I felt I had to for the sake of the thread but because I wanted to! Wish I had the answers for you but cant help myself.
ME - I'm ok, just been doing the usual this weekend. One difference was on sat night (valentines) at 9pm kept falling asleep on the sofa whilst watching tv with DH . Ended up in bed 9.30pm until 10am (my lie in day) and then felt tired Sun pm . DS still varying emotions. His bum trouble seems to have passed (again - fingers crossed) but now noticed his has cold sores all in the cracks of his hands (bad ezcema). A (nearly 14wks) is her usual superstar self, smiley and laughing. Been going to bed by 7pm on her own steam. Noticed 5ish she has a nap then when she wakes up wants to get ready for bed, feed then go to bed. She has then been waking anytime between 11.30pm and 1am then 4am onwards. Last night she did 7pm until 11.30pm then 5am (started disturbing 4.30). So seems to be going ok I think, the early AM feed getting later so hopefully 7am here we come. Seems weird that since I have stopped GFing her and the bedtime routine she has found the routine herself. The great thing is that DS goes to bed at 7pm too so me and DH get free time on an eve . Well I spend about an hour doing our t, bottles and stuff but still cool to have TIME when the rest of the day is child driven.
A HAS BEEN ASLEEP AGES ON THE SOFA WHILST I TYPE THIS WILL HAVE TO MOVE HER TO BED.
My birthday on Wed (18th) so having waxing done today and haircut tomorrow

Morning. Just bookmarking. It is half term so I have ds1 at home as well.
I am really struggling at the mo. And having trouble verbalising what I need to help me. Will continue to try to put it into words. Poor old dh doesn't stand a chance !!

Morning one and all - half term here, really excited as I love spending time with DS1, I really miss him when he is at school, got lots planned!!!

Hope everyone had a good weekend ladyb how was the christening? are you ok??

Pinky thanks for the link on AK. Like Juanitad and monkey and ceebee I think praise is very important BUT I also think that it is just as important to give kids a sense of achievement for doing something for themselves. I think if you don't praise, IMO you would have a child who would be depserate to please their parents all the time anyway as they would feel insecure. I know if I hadn't had any praise as a child, I would have felt like this. As monkey says, I was praised and equally bought up to look at right and wrong but to realise that ultimately you need to be happy in yourself. I hope I am doing the same for my kids. They seem very happy/well adjusted/secure.
Also, we live in a competitive World and so therefore I think it is important to have an element of competitiveness so you can learn to improve yourself. I did lots of competitive sport as a youngster and whilst I can remember feeling upset if I didn't win, I was still praised for doing my best so it didn't matter. DS1 plays tennis and Rugby and absolutely LOVES it. He does however understand that you can't always win, but is secure in himself to not let it phase him. He understands that sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. I love that he loves sport.

Also, and again this is personally, I think a lot of problems with society is down to the fact that parents just don't discipline their kids anymore and the kids are ruling the adults. Setting their own boundaries. Not respecting their elders. No manners. I could go on, but I think you all get the drift.

Hana yes I also believe in traditional education (surprise, surprise) for a number of reasons but primarily because I believe we are so lucky to have such a wonderful education system in this Country and that I believe that children need to be at school. Socially, mentally, emotionally but that they obviously need the full support of parents. I don't think there is anything wrong with exams/tests either. Just not lots and lots. We had a weekly spelling/sums test at school and I can actually remember really looking forward to it, although I do appreciate that not everyone did.

anyway, I could go on, but I won't

*Ceebee am laughing at the dummy incident, that is very sweet!

Daisy how are you doing?????

No sign of Daisy on FB Scrabble either - this is serious - is she in hospital with her possible gallstones??

Just done a quick search and Daisy hasn't posted anywhere since Saturday evening - hope she is ok

I saw Daisy on Friday and she did say she was going to try to cut down on MN for a few days, so hopefully she's ok and just busy with 3 DCs now that it's half term.

Hi Ladies

Well not had time to catch my breath these last few days let alone mumsnet

Becca being a nightmare, really whingey, waking loads in the night. She has no temp but I know something is not right. Have not taken her to the doc's... YET! We had to leave her with parents on Fri night as we went to see High School Musical on ice wih DD1. Show was good but could not wait to get home. Becca is 16 weeks on weds. any ideas

Have read posts briefly, hope Daisy is ok, Ladybuzz I ope yest went as well as it possibly could yest under the circumstances. Please look after yourself, perhaps time out from DH and no contact with friend is the way.

Monkey Inceasingly jealous of all your days and lunches out, put us to shame!!

Rosa did I see on another thread that yu are coming to the UK soon? Which part of the country will you be visiting.

Have not seen Pinkali on here for a while, still not Heartmum or Doctorswife either.

Sorry for brief post, feel like never enough hours in the day and its half term. We are going Centre Parcs on Friday, hope to chill out a bit there

mmm I was thinking about Daisy as well I hope she is ok - forgot about half term in the Uk.
I can promise it is not glam living over here as for a start you have to compete with all the stunning Italians - I sware they get up at 6 am to do makeup before taking the dc to school.( I have given up !!!) Venice is good but also a nightmare I have great biceps from lugging the pram over bridges but need to then leave the pram at the top and run up and down to get the aerobic benefit!! ( so I don't !!!) I love open spaces/ parks and we don't have many of them here what we do have we share with dogs ( and poo) and mozzies !!!.
Coolcat yes I am coming to the Uk but not until July I am just planning in advance ( and counting the days !!
I am a firm beliver yes in praise but above all common sense in bringing up children.. I bring up my dc taking the positive memories for my childhood and trying to avoid the negative ones. Common sense the stuff you can't find in a book !!

Text from Daisy. Sent last night, but only just checked phone. She was in hospital sun night. Hoping for scan monday morn. Prob have gallbladder out.
Fin is atleast allowed to saty with her.
Not good. Love to her form all of us, eh ?

Definately, get well VERY soon daisy
xxx

Oh poor daisy yes love from over the water !
Vbab forgot so your baby is a birthday baby as well ????
Its my birthday tom and minirosa I think was a result of too much wine it is also our anniversary on the 19th so either one or the other !!!

Poor daisy hope she feels better soon poor thing!.

Had a fab day yesterday, christening went well and both boys were angels all day bless them.
Service was horrific, all about the values of marriage and bringing children up in a secure loving family. Then how nothing lasts forever and the bubbles burst. Lovely service just not a good day for it!!
DH has been making a massive effort with me but he is just doing my head in - i feel awful thinking like this but I just want him to leave me alone, he hasn't left my side all weekend.
Wants me to cut contact with the friend and I know he has every right to say it but I really really don't want to. I feel like a complete cow at the moment but I really don't know what I want.
Sorry I went off on a tangent a bit there
Hope everyone else is well, I have put some photos on facebook from the Christening - including my new hair doo if anyone wants to look, I still can't work out how to get them on here .
christening pics

Buzz, I love your new haircut. You sound all of a dither. I hope you get the chance and the space to think things through very carefully. This is a crutial time.
Do you know deep in your heart what you want ? But are frightened ? Or do you genuinely not know what to do ?
Let us help you, if we can.
Must dash. No dinner preapred. Dh home in 1/2 hr.

ladybuzz your hair is amazing, really really lovely, I too have been contemplating a longish bob for a long time, but to chicken to go through with it! How are you feeling today, now the buzz from the christening is over? was thinking, maybe a good idea to have some time apart so you can both sort oyur heads out. not ideal, but better than arguing. Incidentally, was the "family friend" at the christening..how did you feel if so???

I really hope you can find happiness and be at peace with your decision. that is the most important thing.

All my 3 are shattered and tucked up in bed, I am having a cheeky vino whilst dinner cooks and waiting for Dh to get home. Obs you are so, so lucky that your DH gets home at such an early hour!!!! We had a lovely 1st day to the half term, played cowboys and indians this morning and then met friends this afternoon for bike ride and fuck deeding. Was lovely but a trifle chilly!!

Tiger is definately teething, her cheeks are so red at the moment and she is definately a bit peaky - have been using ashton and parsons and teething granules to good effect though.

Any news from daisy? i tried calling her today, but forgot that I lost all my phone numbers during a phone upgrade. If anyone on FB has it, can they please send to me?

Hope everyone else is good in the hood!

Dozy Fuck deeding??? Would you care to elaborate

Obs Please send my love to Daisy although I am sure I have her mobile number somewhere.

Buzz glad yesterday went well (if a little weird!) - maybe some space is what you need but it sounds like your DH is prepared to give it another go - but you need to make sure that is what you want. The photos are lovely - Jay is a cutie!

Tonight is the first night of the new bedtime routine where Sam actually goes to bed upstairs instead of staying downstairs with us. I put him in his cot about 30 minutes ago and not a murmur - but to be fair he is pretty good at settling himself so I wasn't . DS1 otoh is p*ssing about on the landing as is usual these days

Get well wishes to Daisy. Hope you feel better soon.

Sorry to hear of your recent problems Ladybuzz it's such a difficult time when a new baby arrives and puts an immense strain on even the strongest of couples. Dp and i are due to get married in July and all we seem to be doing at the moment is sniping at each other. Lack of sleep i think in our case but nonetheless we should be looking forward to becoming Mr and Mrs and all we seem to do is argue

Ceebee good luck with your first night of Sam's bedtime routine. Here's to a good night sleep all round. Now if only you can get your other little man into bed

I'v had a breakthrough with Oscar. It's taken me 15 weeks but i'v come to realise that my boy likes to go to bed. Ok i'v maybe been a bit stupid but dp and i have spent the previous three months rocking O to sleep and he has not been going down until 10 - 11pm. Last week HV gave me some tips on how to get him to go to sleep without rocking him - and lo and behold - he does . I take him up to bed awake and stroke his face and shhh him. He loves it and it's tking me less and less time each night. It's great he has been in bed since 7.30 and dp and i can finally enjoy some time by ourselves. Maybe there will be a wedding afterall