June 08 - New Year same old sleepless nights

[hedgehog1979]

Bit bored so thought I would start the new thread

Good morning

Poor Thea has a cold and we are getting no sleep. She's very miserable and snotty. Everyone is ill (just minor things like colds, swollen glands etc), DH is in the middle of a trial so out of the picture for the time being.

Are all the babies eating beautifully? Thea has toast soldiers for breakfast and things like slices of fruit/veg for other meals. She doesn't take much in - I can see little bits in her nappy but her nappies aren't much different to how they were a few months ago. She isn't interested in being spoon-fed, she wants to hold the food.

We have baby yoga this afternoon. Does anyone else do it? And do I have to take my socks off? ( at my vile uncared-for feet!).

Hope all the going back to work is going well. Sponge sorry to hear about your worries about work/IVF.

Hope you're feeling better Deb

DD1 is behaving badly at nursery. They are handling it very well but it is very embarassing. They think she is very alternative . In the context of her awful behaviour I don't think that's very endearing. The thing is, because she has this brain abnormality, I keep fretting that that's the cause of her behaviour. I don't see how it can be - she's been discharged by the neurologist and he said he didn't think I needed to raise it when she starts school. Some evenings I dread picking her up and she often spends whole evening screaming and winding the boys up. It's really exhausting.

Are the self-employed people here more organised than I am and already done their accounts? I had done quite a bit on my old computer but when the computer broke everything got lost. I can therefore exaggerate hugely how much work I had actually done!

Systems, great news on the sleep front! Maybe Caitlin was worn out with all the button pushing. I think it makes a lot of sense to expose babies to certain foods - not eating peanuts in pregnancy has done nothing to help nut allergies apparently.

I think kitchen floors get mucky no matter what. We have a dark slate-effect tiled floor and the muck is mostly orange so you can still see it!

Katyjo, I found when I cut out the morn and aft BFs they started to wake more, so now I BF them 5 times a day, even though they don't demand it (somtimes its hard to remember!).

Yesterday E didn't eat much and I wondered whether she would sleep through, well she woke at 6am which is not bad but normally she sleeps till 8am. I have found that generally if she doesn't eat much we get a 6am waking. Not complaining, she had a feed and slept till 8.30. T slept till 8.30 too (from 7pm)!!

Hiya Rolf, nice to hear from you. Have you tried Medised . E is not eating so well. I made porridge with prunes this morn and she wouldn't open her mouth, so T ate it all . I made her toast but she was still not bothered, then I made porridge and banana and she ate that - she is much more picky than T. Sorry about DD1, could you take her back to the neurologist? What about her diet? I am a big believer that food affects behaviour. Sorry you lost all your accounts . How annoying!

Obviously I am not saying you don;t feed her the right foods! Maybe she has a reaction to something quite innocuous...?

Hi Neenz - she doesn't eat very well. I get as much fruit and veg down her as I can (not much) and make sure she's hydrated but we don't really eat much processed food anyway. I don't think I'm going to take her back to the neurologist atm - I'm assuming/hoping she is just a feisty 3 year old, rather than there being a problem. Also, I have to remind myself that I can't expect the same behaviour as I had from the boys at this stage. She has two big boys to influence her so she is used to wrestling/ crashing around etc. Very different to the environment the boys had at this stage.

DId you post about working 1 day a week? If I've got that right, do you have a decision? 1 day sounds great.

Great idea about medised

Obviously all June babies have superior intelligence Jamie just combines his with an extreme stubborness gene,

Katyjo sadly yes that bfeeding routine sounds familiar, although it is better now as Jamie will routinely feed while awake in the evenings now, even if not at other times of the day. He seems to have transferred his stubborness to solids and that has made bfeeding easier - which also seems to prove the theory that it is deliberate.

neenz, big advantage of twins then - none of your food goes to waste!

Made a big breakthrough with daytime naps here - put Alex in his cot for his morning nap and he grumbled for about five minutes and then fell asleep! Normally it takes me about half an hour of battling (if I persist that long ) to get him to sleep. Result!

I've been using the book "No Cry Sleep Solution" and couldn't recommend it highly enough. It was recommended to me by an NCT friend who's seven month old baby had not slept through once since he was born and was only napping for 2 x 1/2hr during the day. Since putting the ideas in the book into practise he now has a 1hr nap in the morning, 2hr nap in the afternoon and sleeps through the night!

Tbh, I'm more interested in the 2 hr afternoon nap than the sleeping through - TWO hours, the stuff of dreams and legends!

I'll let you know if we ever get there!!

Katyjo that did help, thank you! I had a whispered conversation in the corner of the nursery with the carers today - 'can we put cereal in his bottle', 'can we put jam on the teat', 'can we inject medised' etc (yes, yes, and yes to everything and anything).
I'm feeling pretty depressed today. In brief:

• an horrific night. Iestyn slept 8-11pm, dream feed at 11. Then woke at 2.30 and would not sleep at all until Tim took him in the car at 5am.
• after yesterday's hunger strike at nursery, I'm really, really anxious. He seemed to have twigged that this nursery thing isn't a one off, and therefore starved himself. He was fine once I picked him up.
• today after he woke (9am - course he was tired!!) he was happy playing and gurgling. Dropped him off, and he stopped gurgling and smiling and just looked anxious.
• the whole no bottle thing is now too much, and I just can't handle it any more.

Sorry all...will try to perk up but I've had very little sleep!

oh essie what a time you're having. I really think at this age they've started to know how to test us to try and get what they want. I guess it takes a while for them to get used to nursery, and that Iestyn is just resisting it as much as possible. I sympathise though, it must make you feel terrible - I have all this to come. No real advice I'm afraid, although hopefully some of the others with older children will have some wise words

rolf sorry you lost all the data! I input mine ages ago but decided not to pay it until later and now I've only got a week left and every day I can't be bothered

Essie, . No advice I'm afraid just to say hope someone else has something pertinent to say. So hard for you and your little boy (and Tim of course ).

Hi Rolf - we had the blueberries that I had cut in half and gave to Peter come out intact in his nappy this morning, so our nappies have changed a bit.

Sponge - I have sent you a FB message. Sorry for being disorganised. Pleased to hear that NCSS is working for you. We are on week 2 here, we have had some positive results, but I think Ps sleep was alot worse than As to start with so it's going to be a long road.

Had a silly day yesterday after a bad night. I ended up going to the wrong public attraction to meet NCT folk for a walk. I was about 25 miles too far west. However we had a great time as I tried P out on the swings for the first time which he loved. It made my day. Better night last night so feel less likely to do anything wholly stupid .

Hi Ali, have replied!

Yes, P's sleep was worse - A only normally wakes once a night (although last night it was twice, I know I still can't complain). But I'm so impressed by the results with the naps already - I think part of it is that it's given me the confidence to know I can change his routine without too much stress and there are benefits for both me and him of doing it.

You poor thing re: turning up at the wrong place! Glad you enjoyed the day anyway!

I've just got a book similar to NCSS, but the reviews seemed to suggest quicker results. It's Teach Yourself Baby Sleep. Stupid title; it's the baby who needs teaching!

Essie you poor thing, you must be so worried. It's a big change for Iestyn and it's completely normal that his mood, eating and sleeping should be disrupted when he first starts off. But I am sure it will be fine once he settles in, give it some time.

I have seen so many babies of his age settle into nursery, because of spending so much time doing drop-off, lunchtime and pick-up feeds in the babyroom, first with ds and now Caitlin. Some settle straight away, some take a few days, some a couple of weeks. But they are all fine in the end. Even the ones from ds' cohort who really seemed to struggle (which actually tended to be the slightly older ones, around a year, and I'm talking max. a few weeks of being unsettled here, not a long time) are now happily running around toddlers, completely unaffected by the experience in the long run.

Try not to read too much into him quietening down when you drop him off. Remember he is only 7 months old and I know all our June babes have superior intelligence but even so, I think we can read too much distress into them looking anxious, when it could just be that they are processing a very stimulating situation. And since he has always had issues with eating, it's fairly normal that not eating would be his response to this really new situation.

You will find a way through it. It may be that he will decide to have extra night feeds for a wee while to top him up if he doesn't eat much there (did you keep trying feeding him last night?), and also for extra comfort, and you might have to put up with a bit of this 'reverse cycling', but this shouldn't go on for too long at his age, they're getting big now.

Sounds like the carers are really good if they are willing to work with you on ways through this. Also I think it's a good sign that they called you when he 'wasn't himself', even if he was well - better some over-caution in the early days, then you are reassured that they are keeping a very close eye on him. It makes a huge difference if you trust the staff - the babyroom staff looked after me more than they looked after ds in my early days back at work I think!! But I knew absolutely nothing about babies and still had v. little confidence in what I was doing at that point.

Essie - agree with what Systems said - your poor love - what a nightmare. I guess a new nursery and being with other people and loads of screeching kids all day instead of mum and a relatively quiet environment must be a little stressful and even adults go off their food a bit when they're a bit stressed out. He'll come round. Did you have a settling in period? Does he have a good relationship with your mum - how is he when he's round there? I don't know how far away she is or what kind of time she has on her hands but if Iestyn gets on well with her, could she sit with him for an hour at nursery, or maybe get her to try and feed him at lunch time? Get out the Banana Custard! Really thinking of you love - try and get some rest.

Rolf, I have started the process of asking for one day a week but not sure whether they will go for it. I have to write to the managing editor which is not so bad cos I know him well from when I was NUJ rep and we went on strike last year.

Sponge, NCSS is a well-loved book on MN. So glad it is working for you. I use some of the techniques too (hand on the tum, standing by the cot etc) and find them very good (and far less cruel than CC - altho sometimes only CC will do for us!). Roll on those 2hr sleeps (altho you will find it is the quickest 2hrs of the day ). I think a lot of it IS to do with confidence and just knowing that if you do A then B will happen IYSWIM.

Essie , do the nursery staff have experience of this sort of thing? I assume it must happen lots. Do they have any suggestions? You said you were thinking of going back at lunch to BF... sounds like a great idea to me and you get to see Iestyn. How far is the nursery from your work?

Great post, Systems!

Hmmm. Caitlin just threw up on me. Just a bit, and she's fine in herself, but what with that and the sleeping more than usual ... and the nasty sickness bug going around nursery ... can hear that oncoming train getting closer. I am quickly getting caught up on washing and getting dinner sorted now, just in case. And we're all supposed to be going down to Wirral on Monday for dp's nan's funeral . Please send healthy vibes this way!!

sponge sorry about the back to work thing btw, completely forgot to say earlier during this minimal posting phase I'm going through.

Can I ask what your friend did from the NCSS book that helped with the naps. I've got the book, but not used it too much as S hasn't been a continual bad sleeper - he just goes through phases. He only naps for 20 mins max during the day though and it's driving me crazy!

system - sending healthy vibes, and sorry to hear about your dp's nan.

Thanks bdq - wasn't unexpected, we saw her at Christmas and she seemed somehow almost gone already - bit hard to describe really but we knew it was only a matter of time. Still v. sad though, but I'm glad she got to see the kids recently.

Neenz, he managed an hour and a half this morning - but I really didn't use the time productively as I kept on expecting him to wake up!

BDQ, I think one of the things she did with great effect was sitting outside his room while he was napping and when he started to make the faintest sounds of stirring, going back into settle him straightaway rather than letting him fully wake up which is then a nightmare to get them to sleep again. It's a PITA at first, but after only three days of doing this his naps went from 30 mins to 60 mins and two hours in the afternoon. I haven't had to do this yet as Alex decided just to extend his nap this morning without any help from me, but going to keep up with it over the weekend and see what happens.

SA, healthy vibes coming your way!

Thanks sponge I'll endeavour to summon the patience to give it a go. It's good to hear someone else has had some success with that technique - it might spur me on!

Would appreciate any song suggestions!

I've now ordered the NCSS from the library!

BDQ what about the Ting Tings? I have it in my car and am enjoying it

systems hope you're all ok

Hiya all

Finding juggling work and baby tough at mo so not much time to post as too tired.

No individual posts but replies to things brought up over last few days.

Here we have finger foods for tea at 5pn, Things like: cheese triangles bread sticks rice cakes, kiwi, strawberries, pasta, banana, sandwiches with tuna,cheese, ham scrambled egg, banana, jam etc.

re allergies, there is a serious gluten allergy in my family but i contacted the coeliacs society and they said best approach was to just go for it and when she was older if symptoms such as stomach ache bloating etc appeared then they would start tests.

Same with other foods Fleur gets everything but i watch out for sugar and salt i try to avoid buying ham cheese, jam etc with it in but i dont worry if its in bread sticks etc

Nursery: It took fleur a while to settle into a pattern and eat properly, sleep there etc but after nearly 3 months she is happier

Naps , no way do we get 1hr long naps here i wish!! we get 2 maybe 3 35mins naps a day!!!

Superior intelligence: must be a june baby thing, as is trying out what they can get away with. Fleur has found the dvd player and can now turn it on! and because a In the night garden dvd was left in there she now thinks its going to play it every time and if we tell her no and move her away she defiantly looks at you and does it again on purpose!!

Oh and on a last note Fleur slept through last night from 11pm to 6am not expecting it again though cause she is still coughing and wheezing. drs appt on mon to see if chest is better

Well ill lurk for a while see if anyone around but big hello to you all

BDQ Pots will be on their way soon !!! and just given you some song suggestions too

Paro sorry you are feeling so tired, LOL at Fleur going for the DVD player. She is obviously very clever!

Sponge, I'm the same, it's always at the end of the nap that I think 'If only I'd known they were going to sleep for that long I'd have been able to do X,Y and Z and relax!' On NCSS, what exactly do you do to resettle the baby when they stir? I have read to do that before but have never really known what to do. Do you pick the baby up? Feed it? I have never been able to cuddle/rock the twins to sleep, so can;t think what I would do to resettle them. I just leave them to cry, they get the message eventually .

Systems, hope that train stops! Sending you healthy vibes.