May 07 - Some have produced new anklebiters, but the rest have more sense.

[twelveyeargap]

Afternoon all. That "Kevin Thing" was worth sticking with. I really got into it. I listened to it on Radio 4 as well. I'm currently reading The Lady Elizabeth by Alison Weir and I'm not sure I'm going to like it as much as her non-fiction, despite the fact she writes the non-fiction in the style of a novel. We'll see. If there were pictures of Jonathan Rhys Meyers throughout, I expect my attention would be held. Donna Tart's two novels are great, if you're looking for some light "literary fiction". I have recently enjoyed A Woman of Cairo by Noel Barber. I read any Alexander McCall Smith books as they are released. Very non-taxing stuff. Two Caravans by the Ukranian Tractors lady is worth a read, but I didn't think it was quite as enjoyable as the first book.

So apparently I've been having some of whatever Sky's been eating because the Boy put on 28 ounces in two weeks. He was a whopping 11lbs 5oz on Thursday, well out of all newborn clothes and into size 3 nappies as well, the chubster.

Great news about M finally walking, Scoot. AM, gagh! Vomit on a car journey is just gross. Poor you and poor E.

I moved A into her new room and some mad part of my brain thought she'd manage that as well as moving into her toddler bed (cot made bigger with one side off, basically), and also move from grobags to duvet. Hah. We currently have the open side of the cot against the wall and her in grobags in it. Baby steps needed, given she is, after all, still a baby. Need to move O out of my room now. DH practically never wakes up when O cries at night, but is still sleeping in the spare room nonetheless. Am tempted to keep O in our room so that I can keep the king bed to myself and DH can keep the sofabed. I've been getting a great night's sleep, despite O waking once during the night. DH's snores are just background noise from the next room.

A's just woken. Back later.

I listed to We Need to Talk About Kevin on Woman's Hour too. I kept worrying about whether it was a good thing to listen to with a baby ds but don't think D is a Kevin, compelling listening. Haven't read it in print though I bought it a while ago.

TYG, wow at the weight gain. I shall have to contact you and Sky for tips if I have problems this time round as I'm really hoping to do better at breastfeeding this one.

wow TYG O's is doing brilliantly! Well done you!

The more the merrier! L is very welcome as we will have Jack here and we can send them out into the garden

Will drop you an email with my addy on it.

I'm ignoring talk of your meet.

Sounds like O is thriving TYG. And waking once a night? Crikey, you're special magic Irish lady with special magic children. Sounds brillig.

We Need To Talk About Kevin was the most contrived, predictable, formulaic, ill-observed, psychologically-inaccurate drivel I have ever read. What I really mean is, I hated it. Lionel Shriver quite openly dislikes children, clearly doesn't understand them and is a better writer than that book allowed her to be. I know nothing about novels though.

[stuckonchapterfive]

elkie, do you have all the breastfeeding helpline numbers to hand? What happened with D if you don't mind me asking?

Oh my goodness TYG you are a milk machine!
Well done to you and O. How are you handling everything? I'm sure your life is chaos a lot of the time.

MKG, love both your boy names btw. 8th March is a very special day in our family. It's lucky. Had some other questions. What's a 401k? and in Friends (again) who do they say takes their money (I'm thinking it's a tax thing), sounds like 'ficus' but that's just silly. Tootsie roll?

Ooh couple more. Underdog. What's that? And pigs in blankets? I do know I can google this btw, just like the 'Ask a Real American' aspect.

Meet and greet was fun. Sorry Abby, but I don't know how you teachers do it. Anyway what is exciting is that is a real school, you know with big classrooms (19 in her class) space, changing rooms, playing fields and a proper dining hall. Dd is raring to go. I am a little that my baby is getting bigger.

Time Traveller's Wife is a nice book, stick with it and give it a go, I have read it twice and it was better the second time round I have to admit. I haven't read the Kevin book is it the one about child abuse?

MKG can you do that link to your baby names again, I love a good baby names debated

TYG hurrah another J. Well done you! Though you'd better get into somekind of ultra bicep training. I have Hulk biceps.

Elkie, fingers crossed the bf works for you this time. I am also happy to be an ear if you need any online help, I love bf.

Dh is away for two weeks. He is climbing Kilimanjaro, leading 25 of his worldwide colleagues. Ho hum.

I could climb Kilimanjaro. I choose not to.

We Really Don't Need To Talk About Kevin is about a boy called Kevin- surprisingly- who seemingly is evil from the moment of conception. He has a simpering, ill-conceived sister, a self-absorbed mother and ignorant father. Please don't read it, it's insulting. I rarely despise books, this is one of a very short list.

I love bf too. M showing no signs of stopping, ever.

401K is a retirement investment plan. A portion of your income is taken out of your check and put in your 401K. It accrews interest and sometimes your boss will match a certain amount you put in . I don't have enough money to put any away right now, although it is the smart thing to do.

The FICO--is an agency that tracks your score.

Tootsie rolls-small chocolatey chewy candy. Always gets stuck in my teeth. Very yummy though.

Underdog-in competition the underdog is the team/person that is not favored to win.

Pigs in a blanket--mini hot dogs wrapped in pastry. Very good appetizer.

names

Oh Master it's not so much debated, just voted on. I like have people's opinions, but not their nasty comments. I don't have time for negativity

If that's the case then MKG I love all the names you selected

Seriously though I can't understand why people can be so horrid about others choice of name. Unless you call your ds Derek. That is just unfair.

Ah, now you have given me a synopsis SOH, I remember, yes I have read that book and it was one of the most depressing and demoralising books I have ever read. It should never have been published.

I too could climb Kili. I chose not to because school was starting.

However I am thinking of getting some ladies to climb Mount Kenya. Anyone interested in joining me?

Evening all....

Everyone had a nice weekend then by the sounds of it.

Pebble, sounds scary where you live.

Where is lg&t? Is she ever coming back? seems like an eternity.

I AM GOING TO IRELAND in October...... OMG, I am so excited. I booked flights last night to go and stay with the very mad, crazy gorgeous, lovely Mnetter AKA Watsthestory. Hope I'll be able to understand her, TYG any tips on Irish etiquete much appriciated.

Mini meet at Meadow Mansions.

OOoh how exciting!! How cool will it be to meet Wotters! You will love it.

I didn't like Kevin either... I read whilst pg and it scared the crap out of me

Have bought far too many books today. I think I need to go on holiday on my own to have any chance of getting through them. Our last holiday pre dd was 16 nights in the Maldives and we got through 30 books between us

Still confused about underdog. I'm familiar with the term, just not sure what it is in Friends that gets away and bounces down the road. It's a big inflatable thing?? They watch it from the roof. Is this making any sense? Pigs in blankets sound like sausage rolls.

I've never been to Ireland either. You'll have a great drunken time I'm sure. I have a good friend there though so should make the effort.

Ooh get you TSM with the Maldives. My last holiday was my honeymoon. Youth hostels. Camping. Bikes. Scotland. Bit different to the Maldives.

TMAM, I'll climb that mountain with you. We'll strap the children on our backs, make it a real challenge.

LG&T's fine btw. She's moving furniture and blossoming. She will get a smacked bottom though for not posting more regularly.

SOH, I don't mind you asking but you might wish you hadn't, it's something I still get sad about. Please anyone who doesn't want to read wails of self pity skip the rest of this post...

The community midwife was worried by D's weight loss a week after the birth and he was taken back into the paediatric ward of the hospital. He was dehyrated and jaundiced, and had been much too sleepy, and I'd had some contradictory advice - I probably should have been trying to feed much more often.

Anyway, he was ok healthwise within a few days, probably Monday or Tuesday, but it took us until the following Saturday to get out again, and that was a battle, especially as for a couple of days he was being sick everywhere and it seemed like his weight would never go back up.

Anyway, they gave him formula and although the hospital is supposed to support breastfeeding, I was lent a pump for example, but I really struggled to use it effectively and felt I needed dp's help. dp was having to go home to sleep as the room we were in just had space for one of us to stay, so I didn't have him for help at key feeding and pumping times, late night and morning. And really, I don't feel that the Paediatrics Ward understood how to to support bf or how distressed I got that in the end I was totally undermined. I did carry on trying to express a little for weeks, but not enough. The local bf Network group was very friendly, but it was all too little too late.

Also, while in the hospital after D's readmission I was made to feel hopeless as a mum, it took me months to regain confidence and even understand just how crap I'd been made to feel, and even now I cry remembering how bad those first weeks were.

Bloody hell elkie, you've heard me whinge on about M's birth I'm sure. Can I just say I'm genuinely sorry you experienced the early weeks the way you did. Confidence in being a mother is a precarious and delicate thing and I think in those first weeks it is so easy to create negative feelings and memories. I think letting that go before the next little boy crashes onto the scene might help. Breastfeeding is a complicated skill to master I think and you weren't given the support or the knowledge to succeed with it. I know enough about you to know how determined and committed you are to many things and it's frustrating and maddening for you to feel like you didn't achieve what you wanted to.

My own personal opinion is that expressing is just no substitute for latching the baby on. The supply/demand aspect of bfing will not work if the baby doesn't stimulate your milk production. I firmly believe that for your own recovery from birth and for breastfeeding to be established you need to be in bed, with the baby, skin to skin and feeding very frequently indeed. Put the baby to the breast asap and as often as he wants or more. When your latch is good and you're confident in that, the rest will hopefully come. And it's tough, but be led by his alertness, nappies and general health as much as possible rather than speed of weight gain. I know this will be hard for you as D was a bit poorly post-birth and the scales become such a focal point.

And... Ask. For. Help. As. Often. As. Necessary. Here. Or. Elsewhere.

You are no hopless failure. I suspect you're rather feisty in rl.

Oh Elkie ,that is such story. I'm sorry you had such a hard time and weren't given the help you both deserved. As usual, some great advice from SOH.
I really came on for a little boast. I am feeling very proud of myself. I have been doing WeightWatchers now for 11 weeks and when I got weighed tonight I had lost 4 pounds which means I have lost 17 and got to (and past) the first stone. I feel really chuffed - about 1.5-2 stone to go now!!!

Evening all

CAQL its not normally that bad where I live but for some reason this weekend things got pretty mad. Turned out the stabbing wasnt too serious though, bad enough, a young man had his face slashed and was stabbed in the leg but not life threatening, luckily. It was an arguement went bad I think, I as usual didnt hear a thing even though the man and the people chasing him must have run right past my house. Havent had any morenews on the baby yet, hope hes ok, hate hearing of LO's getting hurt.

Abby well done on the weight loss, Im gaining but then again I do have an excuse lol

I spent hours this morning putting name tags in school uniforms. It took almost 1.5hrs just to do Jordan's, he has so much of the bloody stuff. I have now discovered that he needs football boots for P.E and wouldnt you know it, his old (but only worn about 5 times )ones are too small so I now have to buy some more. If the boys dont have them they get detention so I need to get them asap. We made the poor boy sit and practise doing up his tie today, hes never worn one before (except when he was pageboy at my wedding but he was only 5)It took several attempts but he got there in the end. I think I may have got a bit carried away with his school shirts though, I was buying them every now and again and he now has 10!!!! Oh well at least I know he will always have a clean one lol. Poor Ethan is upset that he doesnt start school until the 10th, he wants to go now (bet that will change after a few weeks lol) He only has 2wks from starting before he goes full time, 2days before his 5th birthday

The way time seems to be flying it will be Alana's first day at school before I know it, what a scary thought

Hi, I've not posted on the thread before, so sorry for butting in on you all! I was just looking for some advice really - my little one, Harry, slept like an angel from July - December 07 but since then we have had about 3 nights of unbroken sleep in total, and we always end up with him in our bed at about 2am. I used to try and rock him back to sleep in his cot but it used to take at least 1.5 hours and when I went back to work I couldn't carry on. Is this normal at this age??!

Any advice welcome - I have tried leaving him to cry once and it was a disaster, he panicked and made himself even worse.

Also, elkie, I just wanted to say the exact same thing happened to me, and you mustn't feel bad about not bf. I spent hours trying to get Harry to feed from me after he'd been tube fed for 3 days in special care but it just didn't work. He is fine now, and I keep telling myself that that is all that matters, and I'll just try again with No 2.

An interloper! Except I can't understand her accent. I suspect that TYG will have to translate.

HarryJoesMummy- it sounds like he's got into a bit of a habit and at this age separation anxiety is quite complicated as they have begun to understand that while you haven't disappeared entirely, you're not in sight. It's completely right and normal that he wants you to be close by, especially in the middle of the night. Unfortunately, he's got used to being able to call for you and you come and get him. It's completely understandable that he panics if you don't come, it's not within the rules of the game is it? Can you identify what it is that wakes him up? Does he wake up thirsty? Is he chilly? If you can identify what wakes him up this might be a way of tackling it. For example, if he's chilly could you try a grobag and see if he sleeps better? If he's thirsty, can you leave a drink there for him when he goes to sleep and teach him to help himself? How do you put him down to sleep in an evening? Do you rock him then too? Is he able to fall asleep by himself? I think it's important to reassure him that you're there and work with him to get him to stay in his cot if that's what you want. He's old enough for you to explain things simply to him as well so it doesn't become too much of a shock. I'm a co-sleeper though so a complete softie and just let dd sleep in with us if that's what she demands desires.

Right, now i have actually read the thread....

TYG, we have started with the baby steps in terms of getting E in to a bed. She is still in her cotbed but has a pillow and duvet in with her. My aim is that by Xmas we will have her in a bed.

MKG, I love pigs in blankets. When we were in Orlando in May we had to visit an ihop Also i love the names you have shortlisted. I voted

Elkiee, you really did have a tough time of it with bf'ing. I struggled with Jack and that made me all the more determined to suceedin feeding Ella. You know that you have a huge support team here if you need it

AL well done you on the weight loss! My wii fit told me that i had lost 1lb so i was very pleased.

Pebble i bet J & E look very smart in their uniforms. 3 friends of mine have their children starting school next week and they only turned 4 at the beginning of August. They still seem so tiny.

Hi HarryJoesMummy, do you think that the waking might be related to separation anxiety? I cant really offer any good advice as i belong to the same school as CQAL, TMAM & Scoot (the mean mummies school). My ds who is 3 was a terrible sleeper until recently. We did the CC and also the soft (we give in) approach of having him in bed with us and also sleeping in his bed. I'm sure you will get some good advice from the other non-mean mummies....