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APRIL 2008 - The One Where We Step Away From The Psycho Pill and Try Not To Need Pregnancy Tests!!!

971 replies

VictorianSqualor · 22/08/2008 13:36

Our Babies

07 March: Ashton, a fourth child for gemprincess, 5lb 13oz @ 34+6
09 March: Ted, a second DS for Daftmoo, 7lb 14oz @ 36+0
21 March: George William, a first baby for KnitterintheNW, 7lb 2.5oz @ 37+3
25 March: Olivia, a second baby for TheMaskedPoster, 7lb 2oz @ 38+4
28 March: Pablo, a third baby and first DS for vacaloca, 7lb 14oz @ 39+4
28 March: Matteo Alexander, a first baby for Gangle @ 38+0 (?)
30 March: A baby girl, a second child for PortAndLemon, 8lb 15oz @ 39+5
02 April: Jak, a baby boy for rainbowdays, 9lb @ 39+1
02 April: A baby boy, a second child for bunyanvillas, 6lb 14oz @ 37+5
02April: Struan, a baby boy for Donnabels, 6lbs 15oz
02 April: A baby boy for mummyofaprincess @39 weeks
03 April: A baby girl for PippiCalzelunghe @38+2weeks
03 April: Aeryn Daisy, a baby girl for Denny185, 9lb 8oz @ 39+3
03 April: Benjamin, a baby boy for Micegg, 8lb 3oz @ 39+4
03 April: Roelof Grové, a first DS for SalLikesCoffee, 7lb 5oz @ 38+5
03 April: A baby boy for siikibam, 6lb 8.5oz @39+1wks
04 April: Matilda, a baby girl for AprilsFoolsBaby 7lb @
05 April: Ellis, a baby girl for MadameOvary
06 April: Henry Peter, a baby boy for Sheds, 7lb 130z @ 40+4
07 April: Sebastian George, a fourth DS for Peachy, 8lb 4oz @ 41+1
07 April: Jack, a first baby for ThePFJ, 7lb 5.5oz @ 41+1
07 April: Lexie Bea, a fourth baby for babywhiting, 8lb 1oz @ 39+4
08 April: Alasdair, a second DS for bunnyrabbit, 8lb 5.5oz @ 40+3
08 April: James Samuel, a third baby for honeybee10, 6lb 7oz @ 37+2
09 April: Zara Mia Martin, a first baby for V1KK1M, 7lb 10oz @ 41+0
09 April: Jasmine, a baby gilr for Niceychops
11 April: Kyran for rdk, 7lb 13oz @ 38+3weeks
11 April: Sebastian James, a second baby for Fleecy, 10lb 2oz @ 40+4
11 April: A baby girl, a first baby for CeylonSapphire, 7lb 12oz @ 41+1
11th April: Florence, a baby girl for LouMoose
12 April: Maya Alice, a first baby for egyptianprincess, 8lb 15.5oz @ 40+3
12 April: Sophia Viviana, a second DD for AussieDivaonaBreak, 6lb 12oz @ 39+3
15 April: Alexander Oliver, a third baby for VictorianSqualor, 10lb 3oz @ 41+0
16 April: Ailish, a first baby for Mollyfloss, 6lb 11oz @ 40+3
16 April: A baby girl, a second baby for elfsmummy, 7lb 13oz @ 41+1
16 April: Zoe, a baby girl, a first baby for ToastAddict, 6lb 10oz @ 39+3
16 April: Jasmin, a baby girl, a first baby for Eggandketchup, 9lb 3oz @ 41+4
17 April: A baby boy for paranoidmumy, 8lb 9oz @ 41+4
17 April: A baby boy, a second son for lorisparkle, 7lb 12.5oz @ 41+6
17 April: Benedict, first baby for LadyBee 9 lb 3oz @ 41 +2
18 April: Millie, a baby girl for scorpio1 8lb 9oz @ 41+?
18 April: Cameron, a second baby for munchkinmum @ 39+5
19 April: Oliver Michael, first baby for bashboid, 7 lb 4 oz at 41 +3
20 April: Samuel, a first baby for Velbels. 8lb15oz at 41+1weeks.
20 April: Angharad Mai, 8lb 4oz, 40+6, first for 7monthsplus
20 April: Emilia, 7lb15oz, a first baby for SuzeM, 40+6
20 April: A baby girl for SushiMama
21 April: Eve, a second baby for OMaLittle, 8lb 4oz @ 39+3
21 April: A second DD for Monmoo
22 April: Sam, a second son for Soph73 @ 40+0
22 April: Molly, a first baby for EllieG, 8lb 8oz? @ 40+5
22 April: Daisy, second baby for AttilaTheHan @ 40 +3
22 April: Zoe Olivia, second daughter for Piccallilli2 7lb 1oz @42+1
22 April: A second DD for blinks.
23 April: Jessica Elizabeth, first baby for BabyBratt @ 40+1 7lb 12oz.
24 April: A baby girl, a second daughter for christmaspixie, 9lb 2oz @ 40+6/41+5
24 April: Miya Jade, baby girl for ShelleySare at 39+4
25 April: Amelie, a first baby for Dondons, 9lb, 41+3 (i think!)
25 April: Aisha, a second baby for Jaq39 7lb 14oz @ 41+4
26 April: Hope Olivia, a second dd for northeastmummy, 7lb 11oz at 41 .
26 April: Gabriel, a third child for Bainmarie @ 41+5
26 April: Eli Michael, a baby boy for LittleMissTurquoise, 7lb 15.5oz @ 40+5
27 April: a baby girl for Ayomi, 6lb 1oz @ 41+0
28 April: Jacob Andrew, a 2nd DS for Kaybeeand2boys, 8lb 4oz @ 41+5
29 April: Thomas Henry, a 2nd DS for TLSM, 7lb 8oz 40+3
30 April: Harry Samuel, a fourth ds for Chipmonkey, 9lb 5oz @ 39+2
30 April: Ellie, a baby girl for Annamama
30 April: A second DD for luckymummy74
01 May: Sophie May, a baby grl for Annieroo, 6lb 5oz @ 41+4
01 May: Euan George, a baby boy for Jenniejennie, 8lb @ 40+4
02 May: Robyn Olivia, a baby girl for soph28, 8lb 1oz @ 42+1
05 May: Nora Martina, a first baby for Eva07, 7lb 8oz @ 41+2
05 May: A baby boy for Beeper, 8lb 10oz @ 41+0
05 May: Gabriella Summer, a first baby for MommyHasAHeadache, 8lb 4oz @ 40+6
06 May: Wilf, 8lb 60z for bigbadmom @ 41+6
07 May: James Andrew, a second ds for Moominsmummy, 8lb 13oz @ 41+5
08 May: Ellie Isabella, a first baby for Carey87, 7 lb 8oz @ 42+1
08 May: Robin David, a 2nd baby for Woollymummy, 8lb 11 oz @ 41+3
09 May: 4 kittens for scorpio's cat!
10 May: Astrid Mary, a second dd for sagitta, 8lb 8oz @ 42+0

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Denny185 · 17/09/2008 20:28

9 hours in 3 days thats a shocker!

Ellie glad your night was better, you didnt use my tip then, BTW if the pillow not effective enough roll some cotton wool and place inside the ear first, thinking of writing a book - Tips on how to be a trashy parent - could be a best seller

Thankfully my nightmare night of 2 days ago came with an explanation as I got DD2 and DS up this am both of them sneezing out vast quantaties of snot. Thank gawd it wasnt a terrible sleep pattern she was getting herself into.

I had a little taster today of what it would be like to have twins as I babysat a friends DS who is 5 days older than DD2. Both of them have v similar routines so spent the day doing feed, feed, nappy, nappy etc. Thankfully the only problem I encountered was that he didnt want to go to sleep so took them out for an hour in the buggy and he couldnt fight that one The only other thing I managed to do today was the washing up and some washing, how do people with twins get anything sone I wonder.

Denny185 · 17/09/2008 20:33

X posts lady, thankfully were all pretty slummy and our school runs tend to consist of tracksuit bottoms and hair scragged back. Everyone tends to look better in the afternoons - Im ob not the only one who showers during the day.

SalLikesCoffee · 17/09/2008 20:52

Good grief Peachy. I'll never complain again - that's a shocker. Fingers crossed for tonight.

Roelof's got...
A TOOTH!!!
Unfortunately it hasn't stop the crying and general being difficult yet, but I assume it's because part of it is still coming (and others obv) - you can only just see the tip, but you can feel it properly. Hehehe, can't believe I'm so excited about it, escpecially since it's more hassle with tooth brushing etc. Still

I've just put him to bed (remind me never ever to boast about my 15-minute bedtimes again - couldn't get him to sleep all afternoon and difficult tonight).

Well, I'm off to bath myself now before R wakes up again.

Hmm - school run outfits... I've heard that there's horrible snobbishness in lots of schools (under the moms obv). How silly, as if you don't have enough to keep you occupied!

LadyBee · 17/09/2008 22:35

NOTES AND QUOTES FROM...

Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child, by Dr Marc Weissbluth
(Vermillion, London: 2005)

Age 5-12 Months

Increased sociability, infants enjoy their parents company. The more you amuse your baby, the more s/he expects this to be the natural way of things, so when you dress baby or leave him/her alone to get dressed yourself, you can expect her to protest at the fun stopping.
Cue ? more crying when it?s time to sleep. This is normal, but difficult for parents to deal with. Several options from Extinguishing to Gradual Withdrawal

After 4 months, infant sleep becomes more adult-like, the sleep cycles from deep to light non-REM sleep with interruptions of REM sleep.

There should be brief periods of wakefulness during the day, to avoid an overtired state

This is an outline of a reasonable, healthy sleep pattern. Not a set of rigid rules. Times are described by clock time but best to watch your baby than to watch the clock.

Cycle is:

Start the day: around 7am
1st nap: 9am
2nd nap: 1pm
3rd nap: varies
Bedtime: 6-8pm
1st awakening:
2nd awakening:

Wake-up time:
Some babies wake up early, 5 or 6 am, and return to sleep after feeding or nappy change. This is continuation of night sleep and not a nap.

It is not a good idea to go to your child before 6, because he will start to force himself awake earlier and earlier to enjoy your company.
You can?t change the wake-up time by keeping baby up later, feeding solids before bedtime or awakening baby for a feeding before you go to sleep. It?s an independent neurological alarm clock that appears to be independent of the part of the brain that keeps infants asleep.

Morning wakefulness:

Lasts about 2 hours for 4-5 month-old babies or about 3 hours for 8 months. Some babies may only be able to stay up for 1 hour.
Plan a wind-down or nap time ritual of up to 30 minutes ? you decide what it is, but limit it because hours of holding your baby produces only a light sleep state, which is poor quality sleep. Begin the wind-down ritual about 30 mins before the end of your baby?s wakeful period. At the end of the wind-down ritual, whether your baby is asleep or awake lie down with her on the bed or put her in the cot. She may now cry a little, a lot, or not at all.

Nap 1: Midmorning, around 9am, for about an hour or two.

This nap develops first, usually established at about 12-16 weeks. A sleep period is considered ?restorative sleep? if it is about an hour or longer. Forty to forty-five minutes is sometimes enough. Naps of less than 30 mins should not count as naps.

  • try starting the morning nap earlier ? after just one hour of wakefulness ? if difficulty establishing it.
  • try brief but intense stimulation outdoors during wakefulness periods, especially exposing the baby to outdoor light in the morning or make the room as bright as possible when he wakes. Darken when it?s time for soothing.
  • try a longer soothing to sleep routine

Midday Wakeful Time

Expect your baby to be ready for another nap after 2-3 hours of wakefulness.
If your child did not take a morning nap, don?t allow him to snooze in the car or pushchair at a time when he should be awake, it throws the remaining sleep/wake pattern off kilter.

  • During a wakeful period, it is difficult to fall asleep or stay asleep and if you do fall asleep it?s less restful during this time.

Usually if a nap doesn?t occur, let baby stay awake and go on to the next sleep period. Probably it will take place a little earlier.

Nap 2: Early Afternoon

Usually occurs between noon and 2pm, most commonly around 1pm, try to make sure it starts before 3pm. The nap should last about an hour or two.
Most common problem is that the Midday wakeful time goes on too long which causes your baby to be overtired and makes going to sleep falling or staying asleep difficult.

Nap 3: Late Afternoon: 16% of babies have 3 naps

If this nap occurs, the time it starts may vary between 3pm and 5pm. Duration also varies but it is usually quite brief, around 30-45 mins.
This nap usually disappears by 9 months.
Persisting with this nap when it isn?t needed can make the bedtime difficult, cutting it out usually then requires an earlier bedtime.

Bedtime:

Establish a regular bedtime routine in terms of WHAT you do: bathing, massage, story, lullaby, rocking or other soothing efforts. Approximately the same sequence each night helps signal to the child that it is the time for night-sleep at approximately the same time. But don?t be rigidly regular in terms of WHEN you do it: there is enough normal irregularity in napping to produce variability in bedtime.

Different parts of the brain are responsible for day and night sleep, so you don?t need to do the same soothing for day sleep as for night ? just be consistent in whatever you do for nightsleep, and how you soothe for day time naps, even if the two routines are different.

Night wakings for feeding:

Your baby may wake to be fed 4-6 hours after his last feeding. Some babies don?t, others are actually hungry at this time and you should respond to them promptly.
In a child under 4 months, the bedtime may have been later and the last feeding at night later. Now your baby is going to sleep earlier, is fed earlier in the evening and may need a night feeding; this is normal.
This night feeding, and a second night feeding, may be needed until your baby is about 9 months of age.

Partial awakenings, or light sleep stages (?arousals?) occur every one or two hours when your child is asleep. Sometimes your child will call out or cry during these arousals. If your child is not in your bed, going in to him at the time of these partial awakenings will eventually lead to a night-waking or night-feeding habit. This is because picking up, holding and feeding your baby will eventually cause him to force himself to a more alert state during these arousals for the pleasure of your company. He will learn to expect to be fed or played with at every arousal.

If your baby wakes at night and appears hungry, feed her. If your baby appears to want to play at night, stop going to her. At night, the question is ?Does my baby need me or want me?.

A second waking for feeding may occur around 4-5 am. Some children don?t wake at this time, but those who do are usually wet, soiled or hungry and a prompt response is appropriate. While you attend to his needs, maintain silence and darkness so your child will return to sleep, and hopefully wake up around 7.
Many children don?t need to be fed twice at night, but some get up at 2 or 3 am and then not again. A common mistake is to feed at midnight, 2am and again around 4 or 5 am. If you?ve fed 4-6hrs after the last feed, try not to feed again until another 4 hrs have passed.

Drowsy signs:

As your baby shows signs of becoming drowsy you should begin a soothing to sleep routine.

Drowsy signs, sleepy cues, sleep signals:

  • moving into the sleep zone
Decreased activity Slower motions Less vocal Sucking is weaker or slower Quieter Calmer Appears disinterested in surroundings Eyes are less focussed Eyelids drooping Yawning

Fatigue signs:

  • Entering overtired zone
Fussing Rubbing eyes Irritable Grumpy

Food and sleep:
The brain controls the sleep/wake pattern, not the stomach ? we know this because infants who are continuously fed through gastric tubes develop similar sleep/wake patterns to other infants. That said, it?s unlikely that your baby will relax and feel sleepy if they?re hungry. Also, sucking is soothing to a baby so if you suspect your baby is hungry, feed her, if you?re not sure, try offering the breast and you may soothe your baby to sleep through sucking.

Nap Deprivation:

The fatigue from nap deprivation leads to increased levels of arousal and alertness, and this causes difficulties in falling asleep, staying asleep or both.

  • Shorten the interval of wakefulness before the first nap & re-establish the early afternoon nap by focussing on the midday interval.
  • Make sure the afternoon nap doesn?t start too late, protect a reasonable evening bedtime
  • Consistency in the nap time ritual

If the afternoon nap is needed but the child fights sleep the most then, try shortening the midday period of wakefulness. Start the afternoon nap earlier.

Brief Sleep Durations

If the normal bedtime was around 8/9pm before the onset of nightwaking, try moving the bedtime to an earlier time.
Gradually shift it forward in 20 minute increments until the night wakings stop. (sounds simple?)

Early Awakenings

Most children should go to bed between 6-8pm, and wake between 6-7am. 6AM is a normal wake-up time and shouldn?t be ignored, even if it feels early to the parent.

If going in BEFORE 6am seems to be stimulating the child more than soothing him/her, try waiting until 6. The reason is that children can start to fight sleep and get up earlier and earlier to enjoy their parent?s company, which then has the effect of throwing the entire day?s sleep patterns off.
If this pattern is already established and the baby is waking at 4 and ready to play, try putting the child to bed earlier ? if they get more sleep at the front end of they are better rested and are thus able to sleep better (sleep begets sleep), and a more likely to sleep later in the morning.

Night wakings:

Approx 20% of infants between 4 and 8 months of age who seem especially prone to waking at night had colic when they were younger. Parents of these children found that not much they did helped with the colic, so pretty much gave up regular routine. However after four months of age, regular and consistent attention to bedtimes and nap times really does help the older infant sleep better.

About 10% of infants snore or breathe through their mouths during sleep, possibly due to allergies. These infants awaken as frequently as those who had colic but for some reason parents don?t tend to think of it as a problem.

A 3rd frequent cause of night waking is associated with abnormal sleep schedules.

Other things that cause night waking:

  • Fever
  • Painful ear infections
  • Atopic dermatitis, eczema

Solutions to Help Your Child Sleep Better:

Choose the solution (there are many) that works best for you and your child. For the 20% of babies that suffered from colic in the early months and who persist at the age of 4 months+ in having severe sleep problems, extinction or ignoring all crying, works best. But is also the hardest sleep solution for parents and you should always consider trying other solutions that involve less crying, especially if you child does not/did not have colic.

?No Cry? sleep solutions

  • Start early to avoid the overtired state by trying to soothe your baby to sleep within 1 to 2 hours of wakefulness.
  • Always hold your baby, always respond and soothe you baby as long as s/he needs to induce sleep; sleep with your baby
  • Always respect ?drowsy signs? so your baby never becomes overtired
  • Always try to put your child to sleep drowsy but awake
  • Motionless sleep (i.e. not in buggy or car)
  • Establish and consistently practice bedtime routines
  • Practice scheduled awakening
  • Get fresh air between naps, go for a walk
  • Control the wake-up time
  • Slowly and gradually give your child less attention around falling asleep or during the night
  • White noise
  • Room-darkening window shades
  • Relaxation
  • Stimulus control

?Maybe Cry? Sleep Solutions

  • Father puts baby to sleep
  • Make bedtime earlier
  • Focus on the morning nap
  • Sleep rules
  • Silent return to sleep
  • Day correction of bedtime problems

?Let Cry? Sleep Solutions

  • Ignoring all crying, or extinction
  • Ignoring some crying
  • Check and console
  • Cot tent

Fading = gradual withdrawal

Over a period of time, you gradually reduce your efforts at night, so that your child takes over for himself and falls asleep or returns to sleep by himself.
Here is an example of a fade sequence to eliminate night wakings:

  1. Respond promptly, spend as much time as needed.
  2. Respond promptly, father gives bottle or mother doesn?t nurse
  3. Change from milk to water
  4. No bottle
  5. No picking up
  6. No verbal communication
  7. Minimal contact, patting or hand-holding
  8. No eye contact; sober, unresponsive face
  9. No physical contact; sit next to child
10. Move chair away from cot towards door, slowly over several days 11. Reduce time with child 12. Delay response.
SalLikesCoffee · 17/09/2008 22:52

Wow Ladybee!!! Thanks so much for this. Will print it out tomorrow and go through it in detail - now off to bed myself. Remind me to buy you a drink next time we meet!

Night all.

Peachy · 18/09/2008 09:23

Gawd dont get drawn into school run outfits! It cant be a competition if you dont participate.
Where we are we get a lot of posh mums, they spen their days at the celtic ,manor 5 minutes away, which is so posh catherine zeta jones and hubby stay there and its hosting the ryder cup in 2010. It has a spa and they all look very nice and brown (orane would be more accurate LOL). And- well- its boring. Me, I throw on whatever and take pride in having got there at all LOL.

Bas was a bit better, dont think he's too well whic explains it poor lad.

Ladybee if you do decid on weaning remember that babyrice is nutrition free so you would reduce the milk whilst replacing with very little. Because of his weight issues, Bas's first foods were banana, avcado, butternut squash- all ideal but actually nutritious too.

DonDons · 18/09/2008 10:12

my builders were telling me about a woman they know who comes home from work, gets changed, and then drives to pick up the kids at the end of the road in her 4x4 - their summary of the story was 'she's a twat!' - made me laugh!

A has a cold too - cough, snot, cough, sneeze - repeat ad infinitum. Poor thing. Hope all the other babies are doing okay with their ailments.

We are also on tooth watch - I am sure that one morning we will get up and she will have a full set of teeth - they all seem to be so close to coming through!

Thanks for the sleep info LadyBee - very interesting. I have to say in defence of GF the patterns are basically the same as her routines

Well we are off on our hols tomorrow for a couple of weeks so I'll have lots of catching up to do when we get back (in between doing the mountains fo post hol washing )

Peachy · 18/09/2008 10:15

have fun dondons!

teres a aldy here who drives to school, n her Cayenne MPV

Its a 3 minute walk to chool for me with all 4! Plus we live on a one way system so with prking takes her a minimum of 15 minutes. Sure she must do it purely to show off the car.

OMaLittle · 18/09/2008 10:17

Wow, Ladybee, thanks! That is so helpful, really gels with my experience at the moment and thanks to you the nap putdown cry seems to be getting quicker and quicker - I think I just needed the confidence that leaving her was the right thing to do, and the rationale up there helps me understand WHY it is the right thing to do. Bedtime is still really difficult (she often gets overtired as it's so hard timing putting DD1 to bed, esp with 'I need a wee' - OK, get undressed, go to the loo, fight to put nappy back on, body block her from going downstairs instead of back into her room, get cajoled into reading another story/singing another song, hang on a sec 'I need a poo' - O! for a husband who EVER got back before 8...)

Feeling quite chipper here, though watching with morbid fascination as my former industry crumbles - think my chances of getting redundancy are higher but doubt I'll get a payout! Did find out the other day that somehow in my minute planning I managed to overlook the fact they upped full pay on mat leave from four months to six months - so just ordered a double buggy and am so excited that I can't believe I didn't do it ages ago. Maclaren/sling/buggy board was alright in theory but it doesn't work in practice when my back is knackered and DD1 is a bit too full of the novelty of being able to get off the buggy board and refuse to get back on. We are getting this in the camo blue and it should arrive tomorrow - feel a bit bad as my poor friend across the road whose baby arrived at 39+3 on Monday ordered her cot and pushchair from Two Left Feet about six weeks ago and has heard nothing!

The baby is SO cute! It's really hard not to find excuses to pop over there (they are literally opposite) every five minutes! Just took DD2 over to meet him and she was fascinated -she is so into everything now, especially food. Can't believe it's only four weeks until I start solids. Bit at my little one growing up so quickly.

OMaLittle · 18/09/2008 10:19

Glad you had a better night, Peachy. 9 hours in 3 days SUCKS! (as you know)

LadyBee · 18/09/2008 11:21

Glad it was helpful (and sorry about typos etc,), I did worry that it would sound preachy but in fact I don't see that he makes many 'do this' type instructions, just quite a lot of explaining what a normal sleep pattern should be and the importance of naps.
Dondons - I know re: GF, I read her book every so often and am always a bit surprised at the negative press she gets, as usually I find her patterns fit most of what I've read in other books as well. I think it's just her tone in the schedule-y bits 'baby must be asleep' etc, which puts people's backs up, but if you read the bits that explain the schedules as well, it's quite flexible - i.e. if baby seems too hungry to get through to feed after bath, feed before bath. If baby isn't getting through to seven, feed at 5 etc. Hey ho, whatever works.
OMa, must be very odd to see it all go so wrong, so publicly. I have no clue whether all this is affecting my industry, can't think why it would, and certainly the latest communication from the CEO was very upbeat. Wish I'd had the same experience re: mat pay though. I've just had my last payslip with full salary and am looking about the house thinking, ok...we've got pretty much everything we need. Let's hunker down and just get through the next few months.
Peachy, I thought about that and I actually think that's why I'm continuing to delay. I think the weightloss was more to do with him being soooo difficult to get to feed for more than 2 mins at a time. So have started feeding everytime in our bedroom where all he has to look at are the curtains (fascinating!) and the room is dim and quiet. I also just try to ignore him trying to sit up and twist around and don't take that as a sign that he's finished anymore, and just keep offering, he usually takes more.
A friend has just taken her baby to Brazil and has also started on baby-led weaning: very cute photos of a naked baby covered with food

SuzeM · 18/09/2008 12:07

LadyBee, thanks for posting the sleep notes.

The news is just so depressing at the moment. DH is in work as they were told if they turn up, they'll be paid (though late). He said if they pretend to work, the company will pretend to pay him! Might take longer than we thought for him to find another job, there are so many people looking right now.

My uncle suggested we look at moving to the middle east for a while, it wouldn't be top of my list but is worth considering.

SalLikesCoffee · 18/09/2008 14:23

With the world markets as they are I'm not sure either. I'm kind of tempted for Singapore - apparently great expat community and good for children, but I haven't actually researched yet, just passing comments. (But I love Asia, my ideal next 5 years would be spent somewhere in Asia.) For dh America makes more sense (same company), but I suspect job prospects there would be worse than here, so I'll still not be able to do what I do. Sucks.

Nice buggy, Oma. And how brilliant is the unplanned 2 months!!!

I seriously doubt that I'll ever become a School Run Freak, as I thought I had to go to a lot of hassle this morning to drop R off at the nursery (dentist) - and that only involved the additional good floss and brush before the afore mentioned appointment! Obviously way too lazy to bother with impressing others. Oh, and I don't drive, so that spoils the 4x4-ing as well, hehe.

I've got a minor problem. Ladybee's tips might solve it, will implement from tomorrow, but...
The nursery can't get him to sleep. At all. So poor thing is exhausting when I collect him at 1. Because he seems to love playing with the other babies (2 others) that much, I'm tempted to take him every Friday morning, but not if it means he'll be over tired. Every time they put him down in his cot, he starts crying. What I do at home is take him to his cot when he starts rubbing his eyes, give him a bottle, the give him a tiny hug, a soft kiss, a couple of shhhh's, and he's off. I don't know whether I should spend one day at the nursery with him so that I can be with him while he goes to sleep in the new surroundings, or whether I should be more "matter-of-fact-y" at home. I quite like our lovey-lovey minutes, but can see the problem. Urgh!!! He was so tired when I fetched him that he fell asleep in his buggy before we left the front door, I transferred him to his cot here, and he's still sleeping (an hour and half later).

On the upside, it was strange but nice having a couple of hours with empty arms! I could eat properly, browse the library properly, drink coffee for half an hour! Oh, the small things.

MommyHasaHeadache · 18/09/2008 15:56

Great post LadyBee! I am having such nightmares re nap time with Gigi - she just doen't seem to want to nap very much at all - naps for about 30min at about 1:30pm and again at about 5pm - which is not ideal as we have now had to push back her bedtime to about 8pm - whereas before it was 7pm. I think maybe the italy trip has thrown her sleep patterns off kilter a little, so will attempt trying to get her back into some sort of day time nap routine.

Well, I have joined the gym - had my 1st class today and it was great! (Never thought I would say that but I really actually enjoyed it!) Gigi went into the gym creche and was fine - played a bit, had a bottle and when I went to pick her up she was sleeping! Fantastic! I got a bit weepy when I had to leave her - I am suuuuch a wuss!

She had her 3rd lot of innoculations yesterday. Got DH to come and he took her in while I waited out in the waiting room for them (wuss emoticon!) She was very good apparently - gave a scream and then was fine. She got a bit miz later and I gave her a little Calpol (2.5ml), and that sorted her. BUT! She slept from 8:30pm to 9:30am! Can you believe it?!?

I would love it if my DH got transfered - would be very cool!

Suze - so what is your DH going to do - go into work?

I'm glad I was made redundant before all this happened as I think there would be a slim chance now.

LadyBee · 18/09/2008 17:47

We did underwater dips at swimming today - or at least, the instructor did dipping of our babies while we all stood around with our hearts in our mouths. Was very proud of Benedict who only spluttered a little and didn't cry at all
All the excitement was obviously a bit much and he conked out in his pram on the way home so was then faced with the 'to move or not to move' dilemma. I just left him there and when he woke up went to feed him, and he started drifting off again but protested when I tried to prise him off so we ended up having a sort of nap/feed combo with us both laid on bed and him latched on but snoozing. I think I drifted off listening to the radio because it was something about books and then the latest thing I heard was volcanoes. Feel very rested now. DP has just come home from a job interview and sounds really positive about it, fingers crossed

SuzeM · 18/09/2008 18:59

MommyHasaHeadache, yes, he went into work, he spent the day working on his CV and calling contacts. It is nice to have some time to yourself. I had a babysitter every Monday but I cancelled her in light of recent events!

Sal, I've also heard good things about Singapore. I must add it to the list! Meant to say congrats to Roelof on the tooth. I think E will have a tooth soon. Where in the US might your DH transfer? My dh was transferred to NY a few years back, it was pretty cool as they arranged everything and we had a great time there, but it was frustrating being on a visa (you can't switch jobs easily, etc).

LadyBee, hope your DP gets the job.

OMaLittle · 18/09/2008 20:27

Suze, when did you live in NY? I was there from April 02-April 03 and it was a blast, but DH (at that time quite new boyfriend!) stayed here. Fingers crossed for your DH getting a new job, well done for keeping your spirits up.

MHAH and Sal, we are thinking of maybe going to Capetown in November (how many times over am I going to spend this extra two months' pay? ) - any recommendations? We have about 10 days and want to just hire a basic villa near the sea and get some sun and relax. Quite nervous about the flight - think we will try and go overnight and hope the kids sleep [absurdly optimistic emoticon].

MommyHasaHeadache · 18/09/2008 20:57

OMa - great choice in holiday destination!

This site has some great holiday homes to pick from - I personally think Camps Bay, Blouberg and Hout Bay are lovely places to stay and there are quite a few nice homes on that site in those areas. They are all near the sea, and November is a great time to go - nice and sunny. Camps Bay is a very swish area and I know it the best (as I have an aunt there), but I have been to the other 2 areas and both are lovely. You will def need to hire a car - soooo much to see and do, from wine routes, to game watching, to beaching to shopping (and the shopping is great there - especially with the exchange rate!) There really is so much to see and do, but if it is beach life you are after, there are some lovely beaches too - in fact Camps Bay is one of them. Just down the road from Camps Bay is Clifton, and Clifton has 4 beaches, the cool one, the family one, the topless one, and the anything goes one! Just be warned that the Atlantic Ocean is FREEZING cold though! Not for the faint hearted! However, if you want a warmer sea, the Indian Ocean is a short drive (+- 45 min) away - and you get all the Falso bay beaches. Let me know if you want to know anything else!

LadyBee · 18/09/2008 21:16

Suze, I guess your DH might as well go in and use their offices to organise his interviews and cv etc and get that paycheck when they give it.

SuzeM · 18/09/2008 22:50

OMa, we were there July 2000-July 2005. Where did you live? We lived on the upper westside for the first three years, then got fed up with having a tiny place/no washing machine/homeless guys peeing on the front step and moved to Hoboken.

SalLikesCoffee · 18/09/2008 22:59

Thanks Suze. Hope E's tooth comes through quickly. Only tip I can give (but this comes from a wuss - you'll probably be all calm and fine with it) is that when it feels as if you'll crack up and not know what to do to make it better anymore, it magically appears the next morning!
Dh might transfer to Sunnyvale, so we'll probably end up in San Francisco, which I love (except for the fact that house prices are ridiculous). In my dream world I win the lotto, we have a week flat in San Fran, and a "proper" place in Carmel - beautiful, quiet beaches, clean air... Oh, if only, if only.

Warning - all except Oma, please ignore rest of my post, got a bit carried away.
OMa - brilliant choice. Honestly, not only saying that because I'm from SA (ok, maybe a little, but Cape Town area brilliant). Also, if you're into good restaurants, you'll have a brilliant time there! My sil lives in Cape Town (Tamboerskloof), so please let me know if you want any recommendations for anything, and I'll ask her. I'll make it my weekend task to work out a suggested plan for your holiday (Feel free to ignore of course, hehe). Agree 100% with MommyHasaH re car hire.

For some reason people sometimes seem afraid of "driving in Africa", but it's exactly the same (less hectic) as here. And you have to visit the wine farms. Lovely food, great wines and beautiful surrounds. Klein Constantia has wonderful wines and is 20 min trip outside of Cape Town. With most of the wine estates you can take a picnic basket and spend a relaxing day (can imagine especially dd1 loving it) there.

Re flying. Don't UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES take an indirect flight (ok, unless ridiculously cheap, but try not to). I used to do this at the beginning, but it's shattering. Take a direct flight (BA or Virgin normally my choices. If you consider premium economy, pick Virgin, economy they're sameish). You get on in London in the evening, and get there first thing in the morning. So as long as you use your first day for relaxing, I think you'll be fine. (Or I hope, as I'll be doing the same - without dh on the 1st)

The great thing about a Nov trip to SA is that you'll get some sunshine when it's dark and freezing here.

Will shut up now.

SushiMama · 18/09/2008 23:13

Hi All,

So much to catch up on! Welcome back from holidays those of you who were lucky enough to go away!

Congrats on R's tooth Sal! Is it the right (or left) incisor? How is your dental treatment going? Notice that you have been more than once recently.. Also if you want any advice about Singapore, shoot. Lived there for a while.

Am also amazed at the NY connections: My DH (then new BF) was based there when we started dating Feb 04 ish. But he's since moved here. Also been considering moving to the US... Sorry to hear about your DH Suze and all of you in the industry. But mind you it will soon be affecting everyone else too. It's just a whirlwind.

MHAH, I agree with your holiday recommendations. I would love to go. Btw, what do you mean you were made redundant before this? Not while you were preg surely? I'm not back at work yet. Still can't believe these past few months have FLOWN by! Was feeding her just now, and thinking that it won't be long before she's weaned from me.

Phew.. thanks LadyBee for the super sleep bonanza! Will read through that in more detail later. Yes, Izzy's also been underwater swimming. Amazing isn't it? But my place seems to run classes every half hour, and it's like a mad-house there before and after class. Is yours similar?

LOL at all the school runs! I shudder at the thought of having to make friends with people I wouldn't otherwise go near just because they are the parents of DD's friends! That's also why I stopped going to the baby clinic- all the mums AND babies were so well-dressed, even at 9.30 in the mornings!

SushiMama · 18/09/2008 23:17

I did read your post Sal and I second the getting a direct flight to SA. We took a non-direct flight and were so shattered when we got there. It took about 26 hours! And this was pre-baby!

Btw, my DH has been wanting to move to SF, but much as I would love to, I am rather hesitant. Will you work there if you go out there?

SalLikesCoffee · 18/09/2008 23:42

Oma, I haven't been, but my brother has a dd same age as your dd1, and he said she loved a trip here. They had a picnic and she liked the animals etc.

SushiMama, yes, I had a checkup a while ago (well, knew I needed a filling really, but they couldn't do x-rays while I was pregnant and I wasn't really in pain), and had to have the filling done today. Lovely girl really, but I am terrified for some reason - have been for years. To make it worse, my epilepsy is triggered by hyperventilation, so I keep trying to envision lakes and canoes and all things calm, but keep finding myself near waterfalls... From the top My bottom left filling needs replacing, but I'm tempted to leave it. Know I shouldn't, but very tempted.

Roelof's tooth is front almost center (just to the right of the center). I cannot believe he has a tooth!!! It still feels like yesterday when he was born, this can't be.

SalLikesCoffee · 18/09/2008 23:49

SushiMama - well, it depends on how long we stay there I guess. If just shortish term I suspect it would be too difficult with arranging a visa for me (and in this market probably won't find a job anyway, never mind someone willing to sponsor me), but if this is a long term thing I'll definitely want to work when the child(ren?) go to school.

On that child(ren) topic - might just be the teething cheerfulness, but I'm thinking more and more that one might not be all bad after all. It's so contrary to what I've always wanted, so this feeling might pass. I tried the idea out on dh today, saying that it might be better under current conditions to wait about 5 years or so. He said that that might be a bit long, but that two or three years might be a good idea and then see how things are. Since I'm not sure yet, I didn't want to say that I consider no others just yet. I'm in two minds - grew up as part of a big family (4 kids) and loved it, but... Oh well, have 3 years to decide.