December 2006- where they've grown so much we spend more time talking about our lives than our children

[Indith]

Well that and our pregnancies and other non-dec '06 children

Tis a good thing I feel.

lol @ MiLF. I'm certainly not one of those

The whole death malarky is so hard. We had a lot of tears and philosophical debate when my Gma died this summer.

You are being a normal mum of PFB Eli I'm finding it hard at the moment (moi?!) being in 2 places at once: literally DS in one playground, DD1 in other and both start at same time. Plus, DS's statement review is coming up, he's getting headaches, DD1 is happy but something's bugging her as she turns up in my bed every night, DD2 has upset tummy and generally grisly (teeth??). Then one of my wonderful friends told me this morning I was positively glowing and what is my secret. Er?

AQ, hope it's good news for you soon.

Glowing, Castles?

I can't believe that Sarah Palin was referred to as a Milf (now that I know what it means ) And it's certainly not a tag that could be attached to me. Mind you, to DH I may be a MILFBHNFC (Mum I'd like to F but have no fing chance)

wonder how many other forms of milf we can come up with?

Thank you Castles, definitely not made the emotional leap to primary school mode yet, fooled myself thinking I had! And yes, , glowing? Have you been, ahem, milfing? As it were?

I wonder....

Oh it's no good, I can't hold it in. I wonder... whether that sweep worked? I hope they are all ok, whether in or out.

I'm definitely one of those, BP!

We've had a few death conversations with ds1 but he seems quite phlegmatic about it. I suspect he doesn't really 'get' it - Dh's G'dad died while I was pg with ds2 and we walk past his house everytime we go to MIL's so it's a pretty frequent discussion about Graggy and he died because he was old and very poorly and his body stopped working. I haven't gone down a heavan/alternative with him as he hasn't asked where people go when they die. What have the rest of you (who are agnostic-ish) said?

Eli, I'm being oddly PFB about Ds1 and school too, despite the fact I've been a teacher and am generally not very PFB inclined. They just seem so little though . Ds1 starts fulltime tomorrow - I'm dreading the associated increase in tantrums......

How are you all now, Margo?

Yes - we're all fine. The dog was sick a couple of times, just a co-incidence, I hope.

Oh, Oli, now you've made me feel bad for not containing myself - can I blame the hormones?

I'm not sre what I will say on where people go... I don't really believe we go anywhere - just to rest in peace. Perhaps I'll say we go for a long long sleep

I think I will say that I don't really know. And that no one really knows, but that people believe a variety of things - and I'll ask her what she thinks. IME, dd's need is more for a general chat or discussion about a subject, and how she feels about it, than black/white answers anyhow....hope death isn't the exception

Oli, good luck to you and ds tomorrow

LenniEd, I think I read about kids being told death was a sort of long sleep became scared to go to sleep - at least in some instances - so if you value your kip, beware

I would so love to be a MILF at the moment, hard to have sex appeal when I have cankles

I started typing before 10 btw!

Had a show today, that's got to be good, right? Never had one before...

TV after school working a treat with ds btw, I'm making deals before we even get in the door and no tantrums for a few days! A friend of mine commented that her girls (10 and 8) were so fed up of 'behaving' all day they were hitting each other in the car on the way home & bursting into tears about anything. And they're used to school, so trying to give ds more leeway.

Glad girls better, margo. Indith, what about ds, still awful??

And, BP , I thank you
This group and a friend popping in just to see how I was this morning have made my day sooooo much better Bless my friend, she's cooking up a huge batch of stuff to put in my freezer & came to borrow some containers!

Eli, thank you. Had not thought of that - and also thank you as I think I will say that too. DH was characteristically vague on the subject guess that falls into the every increasing category of mummy jobs.

Show sounds very good AQ - did those clothes ever show up BTW? Starting to worry they've been lost in transit.

Got the birth ball out tonight and sat on it for 30mins - back now knackered. Think my muscles have vanished. Must do something about that.

Lennied, two parcels attempted delivery today so one of those might be yours although I think one addressed to dp & the other to sign for. If I manage to pick them up tomorrow I'll let you know, thank you so kindly!!
I meant to get one of those balls, would have helped a lot with the spd but never got round to it!

A show! Very good

See I'm here! Just hiding, ds sleeping again (lots yesterday in fact) but when not sleeping whatever it was off is in clingy mode and throws a tantrum the instant I stop paying attention to him and him alone. When I try to do anything else (like go to the loo, prepare lunch etc) he screams at me and tugs at my clothes. Then I get bitten and hit for not responding instantly. I'm so looking forward to the terrible twos

Anyway the computer doesn't get much of a look it at the moment! But he is still asleep for now so........

Hormones, ack. Evil things. Have also become far too shouty with ds at times and of course it doesn't work. I know logically that he responds much better to being firmly stopped and told no because......but this week shouting seems to be what comes out first.

Lennied you got your ball out already! Blimy!

Death Such a tough topic for kids. My much younger cousin got all confused not long ago when a great uncle of ours died. HE was told that he had "gone away"

"but he'll come back"
"no"
"but when Jesus died and went away he came back"
"yes but Jesus came back because he was very, very good"
"But Uncle P was very good"

I can't blame them for being confused, I find it hard enough to comprehend a whole person not being there anymore and I'm supposed to be a grown up!

really cant stop as off to school.

eli - body broken and stopped working. the thing that made them special will go to heaven and always be around us in photos and thoughts etc.

Oho, AQ, show very good. Just stopped by en route to exercise ( and ha, known as procrastination) to check!

I'm not talking heaven to dds, personally, because I'm not so sure about that myself - but if pushed, I would tell dd that my feeling is that there is part of us that continues on, even though I don't know for sure. Truth is, I think she'll find her own metaphors and beliefs, if I am honest and don't get in the way. Possibly optimistic, we'll see...my parents didnt' get in the way as such, but they just wouldn't discuss death at all (war kids, too loaded I guess) which wasn't good.

I really need to move a muscle or two, someone kick me off MN

A show! How exciting! (Living vicariously through AQ atm)

Death, well, I think the gone to sleep thing is not so good as I've heard of kids then becoming terrified of going to sleep, i.e. afraid they won't wake up. I haven't done a particularly good job of it with ds1 more of a "Well, we just stop living because you can't live forever" or something along those lines But, we are trying to also promote the idea that we go on living in the memories of people who loved us. There is are a couple of really good books that I've run across

Parenting Beyond Belief: On Raising Ethical, Caring Kids Without Religion

The Little Book of Atheist Spirituality

and I also got this fab book on mythology

Illustrated Book of Myths

Ds1 and I read it and talk about how different cultures make up stories to explain things like how the world was made and what happens when we die since no one really knows and people sometimes feel uncomfortable with the fact that we can never know for sure.

How's that for a long-winded run-on sentence?

Dh and I are headed out for our second therapy session today. He has been quite helpful since he went on his own last week

Good luck with the therapy session Jabber - are you feeling more positive about giving things another go? The books look good - will be doing an amazon order once the finances recover from the latest round of xmas/baby shopping. Really need to get that side of things sorted in my own mind before DD starts asking. I don't really have any views on things passed on from family since my family were all pretty rubbish at parenting but don't want DD to have the same lack lustre morals and ethics to model her own on. Sounds like both you and Eli have got things straight in your own minds on how you are going to/have dealt with it all.

AQ - if you do make it to the post office let me know if either of those parcels don't turn out to be the clothes and I'll chase it up. Think DH sent them recorded but will have to go and check in his office as sent them with his work post.

Indith, much sympathy on DS. I think the terrible twos is a myth, really they are terrible 1 1/2 through 18s but no one wants to break that to you when you are the mother of a cute little 1yr old.

Got the ball out since have had barely any exercise since about 12wks pg - thought it would do me a bit of good rather than sitting on the sofa... just made me realise how unfit I am. DD has found it very entertaining today though - kept her busy for at least 1/2hour!

My DCs go to a community school where they learn about all religions as well as non-religion and learn to respect them all and other cultures. This has helped enormously with the death thing. I tell them we have a spirit (a special bit inside of us that noone can see) and it does something after we die - could be reincarnated as a butterfly (DCs like this!) or just floats around on the clouds or whatever. As long as they aren't filled with fear, then they can think what they like.

Do you think the counsellor gave DH a bollocking last week Jabber?

Twins out tonight then AQ ... or tomorrow? Come on, we are waiting here

Just got back from session. I have mixed feelings about it. I felt better talking with her (had some time on my own then together time) but dh's reaction was not great Apparently he is very resentful at having to do anything around the house except what's on his own personal agenda Said he didn't know when or where he had signed on to do housework I think he resents all the work that has come with having the dcs even though he does love them iykwim.

That's hard Jabber. He sound's like my Dad. At least you are getting to the bottom of it all though.

Oh, jabber, hard to break through an attitude like that. dp used to be somewhat like that, always compared himself to bachelor mates to come off better. I don't know what it was that made him change, he seemed to grow up about it eventually. I do find that men find it harder & it takes longer for them to accept the limitations that children bring, that's been the case with all my friends. Women adapt to it, accept it and just get on with it. Hopefully counsellor will be able to tackle the issue with him separately & the two of you together. You must feel exhausted by it already, how are you otherwise?

I shall try and remember wise approaches to death when the time comes, I'm sure we had a period of obsession on this last year & I knew not what to say!

Indith, hope ds gets over this phase quickly. I do find with ds2 that he switches from clingy to angelic and back again periodically. Wish I knew how to throw the switch! I love this age, did with ds1 as well because it's when I really started to bond with him after the pnd lifted but my word they're so pedantic about things. Coming down the stairs requires a masters degree in patience these days (and he's at the angelic stage generally).

No news, as you can tell. DP has just rung his mum for the daily update, he just says no at the beginning to allay any hopes! Apparently there is a book on which day I deliver them . Feel free to join in! I'm starting to feel so vulnerable about being in public, just getting very unsociable and don't want to stand in the playground where complete strangers can make comments about me. Mum met me at the school so she could come home with me and help out, I burst into tears at seeing her! She hemmed 2 pairs of ds1's school trousers, made soup for tea and generally just made me feel so much better! And she's going to come out with me and ds2 tomorrow and pick up ds1 from school. I hope I'm 1/16th of the mum I have

Jabber, whatever he says he agreed to chores when he had a house and especially when he had a baby. Sounds like he needs to realise that children aren't a mothers responsibility esp when the mother is working - my PIL seem to see chores and child-raising as womens work and despite DH being pretty good about doing his fair share I can tell there is underlying resentment, but that is down to how he saw his parents operate things rather than me and I tell him so from time to time. I think the next generation will (hopefully) be the ones who finally see the back of the whole 'womens work' thing.