August 2007- Half a year of sleep deprivation later... (but we're finally back in our skinny jeans!)

[JamesAndTheGiantBanana]

New thread! Whoop whoop!

hello everyone,

loving all the baby giggle stories. mila's a big giggler too, but quite fickle. what makes her laugh today might just get you an arched eyebrow tomorrow! currently she's loving dramatic sneezes and animal noises, especially donkeys and bees

the sleep thing is a killer though. it's really starting to grind. esp cos me and dp can never go out for an evening together even close by and we're quite resentful of each other re: how much sleep we're getting! and no nookie is not a good route to harmony either..

let me spell out the routine and maybe someone can see something we can change:

she's awake at about 6.30am (often bf 5.30/6am to get bit more sleep) has breakfast- ready brek/ weetabix decent amount usually
bf and sleep 9/9.30- 15 to 40 mins
she drinks water/bites to eat/lunch something filling!/bf 12.30/1pm - sleeps 30 mins to 1.5hrs
afternoon eats fruits/toast etc, tea something filling again, often more ready brek and fruit puree before bed, 100 - 150ml formula and bf before bed
asleep 7-7.30 but can wake every hour or 2 hours until i go to bed then will bf her in bed on and off all night! minimum 2 sometimes constantly!

dp will rock her back to sleep in the evening but we're too exhausted to try offering her water or doing any kind of sleep training!

she really fights sleep, has only twice fallen asleep alone... she's a tough cookie but otherwise very sweet and happy so i really shrink from controlled crying as the moment she wakes she's always hysterical until picked up and just screams if ever put in her bed awake

ay yi yi! surely she'll grow out of it one day...but until then. AAGGHHH!!

sorry for long post, i can't believe i managed it

ahh james! how terrible people are. i can't believe it. i'm so over sensitive for that kind of ignorance i'd have been in tears, too much oestrogen probably. but i wish i lived near you and could meet up at m & t's.

Sorry conker, i miss read Hersetta's post and thought she said 'Your hens sound fab cookers instead of 'Your hens sound fab conker'. I shouldn't read about chickens when hungry .

James sorry you have not had a good day, are there anyother groups you can get to. FWIW i would have moved the coats to sit down. Have you checked the children information services web site to see what else is happening in your area.

Pink I hope your ds is ok.

meandmyjoe Lexie crawled backwards for about 3 weeks before she got out of reverse gear.

mamamila

Have you tried to increase Mila's sleep during the day, DD1 would be a terrible sleeper (she was never that great until she was 2) if she didn't get enough sleep and just wake up every hour during the night (her afternoon nap would be 2 - 3 hours).

She would do the following

7am get up
9am 30mins to hour nap
12pm 2 - 3hours
7pm bed.

Even now at 4.3yrs she still have a nap (1-2hours) a couple of times a week.

Lizziemum -you took the words out of my mouth - I would say she needs MORE sleep (I know i sad=id less yesterday), it sounds to me like she is really over tired, and coz she's never learnt to settle herself, she gets hysterical.

I'm gonna bite the bullet, and suggest you try and let her cry herself to sleep in the day. I know this sounds awful, but, it is less stressful in the day, and she can make up her sleep a bit later. At the end of the day, you can't get much less sleep than you are now? Also, stop feednig her at night. Is that the only way she'll go back to sleep? I would try removing at least one feed, so you oly feed her oncec at night.

She's got it sussed, yummy mummy milk, snuggles and cuddles and rocked back to sleep - oh the life of a baby!!

You can all shoot me now.. .. this is coming from me, who had child from hell at night for a ling while - our greatest decisions were - stop feeding at night, giving her a bottle at night not b/f - 9 oz 9whats that in mls?) - I think she might need more in the evening, then she'll be fuller, and putting a travel cot downstairs. if she woke and refused to settle, she got dumped in the travel cot and we put pillows over our heads. Sorry, it sounds very mean, and I'm not suggesting you do this, coz to be fair, it was the second thing we did, and the first should have been increasng the milk feed in the evening.

off to get my tea, will dodge flying objects from everyone who thinks I'm a horrible cow.

Aww James, what selfish women in your baby group! I would deffinitely have asked them if they wouldn't mind moving their bags. How bloody rude! Stuff like that get's me really upset.

Mamamila, I agree with increasing the day time naps if you can. DS is the same though and only sleeps for 30 mins twice a day. He usually sleeps from 7pm til 6am though so I am very lucky.

He can be a total turd in the day though because he is over tired. I have tried all ways to extend his naps, tried the baby whisperers method of shhh patting and pick up/put down. No success. I'm sure he'll grow out of it, maybe when he's more mobile and less frustrated (heres hoping anyway!). I know what you mean about the controlled crying, I could never bring myself to do it either. I have had to leave him to grizzle a few minutes before a nap but it's when he wakes up after a nap that he screams, probably because he is still tired and isn't ready to wake up but I can't seem to break the 30 minute wake up during the day. Try putting him back to sleep but it rarely works.

Anyway, nice to hear that Joseph may be crawling forwards soon. I really hope it lightens his mood!

Shrinkingsagpuss, I really think that what ever works for you and saves your sanity then do it! If it worked for you and it meant you all slept better than no one can judge you for that. I just can't bring myself to do it as ds sleeps so well at night, I keep thinking it could be A LOT worse and I don't want to upset him and make him not settle at night. If he was a git in the night too, I'd have to leave him to cry. I'd go mad!

mamamila- think ds does quite similar to mila with sleeping - although hes better in the evening - will normally go down about 7.30 and up for the first time about 12.

i agree with meandmyjoe shrinking - whatever works for you. I dont fancy trying controlled crying but its partly cause ds makes it very clear which times he's waking by mistake and which times he wants something.

He has a kind of pathetic cry that doesnt actually sound all that upset, so have started not going straight through when he does that in the middle of the night (which i suppose is controlled crying in one way - but its when its not proper upset crying). will wake up myself slowly, and sometimes by the time i'm properly awake, he's settled back down, and if he hasnt, and the crying has got stronger, i go through. Am getting better at not feeding him every time though cause it was getting ridiculous and i ended up doing the same as you mamamila and taking him into bed every night.

i know you start going crazy, and i had the same think of being resentful that dh was getting to sleep.

only things that helped ds was feeding him porridgey fruit before bed, and we went back to swaddling him, cause he is his own worst enemy when he has his hands out - he scratches himself to shreds.

wouldnt say his sleep is great now, but he stays in his own bed almost every night, and it does make a huge difference to my mood during the day.

Sorry - that was a very long post but i'm not very good at being succinct.

and after all that- forgot the most important bit - we bought a music thing that goes in his cot and plays tunes when he makes a noise. drove us crazy when he was in our room, but he's through in his own one now, and that made a huge difference to him being able to settle when he woke by mistake without me being there.

Just think, sagpuss, if you'd have said that in a parenting or chat thread (to say nothing of aibu) you'd have been lynched by now for having an opinion!

Personally I'm echoing meandmyjoe- if it works for you go with it. I mean no normal mother on earth is going to sit and listen to their baby do proper "something's wrong" crying, are they? you know your own child, you know when it's just an "I'm so tired I don't know what to do with myself" cry- sometimes you have to leave them to it, as any more interaction from you, even rocking or shushing, is too much stimulation.

We went through a difficult period with J's naps, he wouldn't nap for more than 15 minutes at a time. My sister pointed out that he probably wasn't getting tired out enough, the key to it was plenty of milk, plenty of excercise/stimulation, and an unwavering bath, milk, bed routine. He's getting much better at napping now, sometimes has a couple of hours in the afternoon which is just fabulous.

But all that said, quite honestly some babies just are more difficult than others. My sister had two totally different babies, her dd was constantly crying, barely slept, fussy with food, wouldn't take a bottle ever, a bit of a pita! (albeit an adorable pita) her ds was absolutely different- calm, slept through, ate everything he was given, a very simple easygoing unfussy baby. She was the same mother, with the same techniques! I think it's just the luck of the draw.

. . .and i'm back

James-sorry about your rotten day, suff them, we love you and we wouldn't stand you up

shrinkingsagpuss-you do whatever suits you, no judgement here, all our wee ones are different

mila-you poor thing, well I agree with the others that MORE sleep is def on the agenda. Callum always naps on the sofa next to me-he used to be in the carry cot but has outgrown that now. He usually sleeps for 2 hours-he has a giant cushion that he knows is his and he likes being with me. (if there are too many people around then i'll take him into another room to nap). I found keeping his day time naps different from bed time helped Callum, ie, cot only at night and in his grobag.

At night he always used to go to bed with us but now we put him down about half an hour before we go to bed. he sleeps in our room still which works well forus and i think he's comforted by our presence in the room (he's just one of those babies who likes to be with you)and he normally wakes once for a feed (other times it's a bit like conker said, it's more of a normal baby waking and he settles himself).

Sorry i didn't mean to go on about Callum , i just wondered if it would be of any help to you.

Does mila have a dummy or a comfort blaket? Callum has had a blanket that his granny knitted with him since the day he was born and since 4 months of age he won't sleep without it so maybe give her something that smells of you instead of a bf and see if that soothes her. Also agree with sagpuss about the formula at night, i had to stop the night bf and give formula very early on as he was so hungry at night time.

Talk to dp and make sure that you both agree on whatever you try and hopefully some nookie will come your way soon

Hope that helps, what James said about routine is good too, my nephew has always had music played for his naps and bedtime and now he's 2 he turns the music player on himself and that is his sleep cue.

Sorry to waffle on, I'm prob not much help x

Callum also has a dummy which he only has for sleeps and now he's old enough he just puts it in himself when he's tired

lol lizziemum at you and the chicken

It's funny how you (me/I)think. When we were growing up we used to go to dinner at my Great Aunt and Uncle's and we would eat roast chicken for dinner and has only occured to us in the last few years that they would have been the chickens we fed the week before we always thought Great Aunt Ruby would get them from the butcher like mum did .

Cheers helibee, your fiver's in the post

J's screaming is driving me barmy! he does it when I'm not paying attention, when I am paying attention... I can't win, he just loves the sound of himself screaming! it's always accompanied by a huge grin. Ignoring doesn't work. Saying no doesn't work. Reacting in any way seems to make him worse!

The only thing which does seem to work is distraction, but it's rather wearing. The best distractions seem to be crackly plastic wrappers right now. I sometimes wonder what people would think if they came round to see him playing with an empty ricecake bag, a wooden spoon with a smiley face drawn on in biro, and a battered tangerine he's been gnawing on for a couple of days but he loves them, honestly!

Someone was asking what makes the babies giggle: James likes peekaboo (he pulls the cloth over his face) likes me to pretend I'm eating his face/hands with appropriate apple-crunching noises, eskimo kisses, tickling, and grabbing his porky little thighs and going "beep beep!" makes him squeal with laughter.

He laughs if we call him silly names like "yooooou PUMPKIN!" for some reason, seems to love it when his dad counts 1,2,3 and leaps across the room at him like madman bellowing "BOOOO!" He already seems to love rough and tumble.

He finds it hilarious when I have his dummy in my mouth (biting the ring not the teat, yuck!) or if I pretend to drink/eat his bottle or toys. Chasing and pretending to eat bubbles also akes him laugh, and acting shocked when he splashes in the bath really gets him doing belly laughs (and gets me a thorough soaking)

And the award for most smileys used in one post goes to....

Forgot to add that any cbeebies song (but current fave is: here come the rubbadubbers, splish, splash, splish, SPLOSH) delivered at high volume with much jumping and hair shaking (dp) makes lo do great big massive guffaws!

Any thing with a smiley face on makes Joseph laugh. He has a butterfly toy with crinkley wings and a big smiley face,he spends ages just laughing at it's face! Just a piece of paper with a big smiley face drawn on it makes him chuckle!!!

He also loves it if we sing 'doo doo doo doo doo doo doo' (to the tune of the superman theme! That always make him laugh

Also, he loves it when he's watching me and I turn my head tound to look at him really quick. He bursts into hysterics!

'This little piggy' is a big favourite too!

Oh I forgot, saying the word 'woodaboo' in a high pitched voice makes him squeal too!

lol meandmyjoe, we have a word like that too, it's "booblyhead?" always delivered as a question. Cue instant giggles!

wish me luck i have an app at the early pg clinic at 20 past 12 because ive had a lot of cramping but no bleeding

Aaw, tasha... best of luck hon, here if you need me x

oh Tasha, hope it goes ok. xx

hope everythings ok tasha.

well we have three big chickens scratching around in the garden - Clarence, Bailey and ZuZu - names from Its a Wonderful Life (I know Clarence is a boys name but think we can get away with it). So much fun choosing names for birds as opposed to babies - much less chance of them hating you as a teenager if you got it wrong.

Ooo hope everythings OK Tasha, let us know how you get on. All the best.

conker how did you get on getting from crate to cardboard box? you were dreading it iirc!

D'you think they've just kept tasha in for a couple of hours for monitoring, to be safe?