December 2007: It's all worth it for the smiles.

[claraquitetirednow]

I've never started a new thread before - has this worked?

amani - thinking about you, as suey says hope youre getting the support you need...and never think you're a bad mother, you are totally not! hope talking on here helps

Flynn hit the 1 stone mark today - so proud, who would believe i could do that! glass of wine and a night of the soaps to celebrate

had a weaning visit from hv today - very useful actually

after flynn was sleeping soo well 7-4-7, he then went off track over the last few weeks, waking every 2 hours...but we had a fab night last night 7-3-7, so hopefully back on track, until the teething starts!

good to hear from you amani, sorry you're having a hard time. keep posting, although I know it must be hard to find the time esp with 2. I think anyone would find looking after 2 little ones stressful, never mind with PND to contend with to. Are you speaking to someone in RL? I hope you're getting some support from dp/h etc. Take care!

Kelbel - a stone - woo! DD will be starting school when she weighs that much at this rate!

Tried to bring our bath time earlier tonight but from the sounds of things from the bedroom it hasn't worked...

Can't seem to get her to settle earlier than 8.30 although I suppose that is not too bad.

Daytime nap question - how do you get them to do it?!!!!

Amani - So sorry you are feeling so down still, it must be a really tough time for you. I hope you are getting good support from your family. But please remember, you are not a bad mother, you are ill. There is a really interesting thread (on parenting threads I think?) by a woman in Australia who is going through a really bad time with PND. She has been writing down her experiences and getting lots of good advice and help from people who have been through it - it may be worth your while having a look, as, co-incidentally, her ds also has reflux.

When dd1 had reflux, we found in the end the only thing that worked was weaning her and getting her onto formula (for us it was SMA) - although it might have just been a time thing, perhaps she just grew out of it. We also used Gaviscon for a while, but it turned out we didn't need it for long. Why don;t you ask your gp about Gaviscon if the reflux continues? Reflux can be pretty hard to deal with and they should be helpful to you if you are suffering with PND.

Also please don't worry about a bit of Diprobase - it's pretty harmless stuff. One of my friend's little boy had terrible excema on his face when he was a baby but now to look at him you would never know he had anything. I think a lot of children just naturally grow out of it.

Suey - Martha has started playing up a bit more, not sure if it's her age, a need to be weaned, wind/indigestion (she now has a bottle of formula at 6.30pm) or something else, but it takes us a while to settle her in the evening. I tried to tough it out and leave her to cry a bit this evening but she got so wound up and upset she was literally sobbing and struggling to breathe, which made me feel terrible!

I have resigned myself to the fact that things aren't going to get easier for a while yet and I will have to factor a bit of settling time into my evenings every day....

Caz - with daytime naps, I just wait for when I know she is tired (eg after she has been up for 1.5- 2 hours and starts making more noise and waving her limbs around a bit) and put her in her bed with her dummy. She usually settles herself off to sleep. She then sleeps for half an hour - 45 mins three times a day and additionally has recently done 2 hours after lunch.

I think following a routine like EASY helps with naps. It's really important to know when they are tired and move quickly before they get over-tired.

Caz - re naps, self settling just aint happening here, but im not worried at the moment coz he is soooo happy all th time, this baby never cries. he goes down for an hour shortly after he wakes up in the morning, then a nap about 11 for about 30 mins, nap about 12.30 for half an hour and another half hour about 3.30. So, he doesn't really sleep much at all during the day, but is very happy with that. On the morning naps he tends to fall asleep feedng, the afternoon nap i know when he's tired take him out in the pram for a sleep

Yeah I keep resorting to putting her in pram, which tbh is the easy option, she's out like a light, but I need not to be reliant on that I suppose.

I've been getting quite mixed up I think, cos like you said clara, she starts to wave around a lot and be noisy...also what she does when she is hungry!

Great idea re that thread, here is a link amani www.mumsnet.com/Talk/8/476723

Lily has got second jabs on wed - VERY nervous as it was few days after first lot she was so ill and I do wonder whether they knocked her immune system

Oh macdoodle that must be such a worry for you . If it was the jabs, I'm sure this lot will be ok as they are already in her system IYSWIM? I know there's no point in saying don't worry!

Macdoodle - Evie has her 2nd jabs on Weds (which are ages after the 1st set as I am a bad mother and got confused when to book more).

Armani - you are not a bad mother, but one who is ill! You won't be joudged on here.

Oh god today everyhting has gone wrong...the phone is dead, the boiler is making strage noises (my new one - well OK it is stopped now but it was...), the cat was sick, dd2 was sick (in my bed on my side!!!), dh is in a bad mood (and only now has stated to talk to me) and his computer has broken (I think the 2 are related). I am wondering what it left to brake in this house - infact I am watching the cracks in the wall with interest....

and clearly I don't know the difference between brake and break!

Oh and I think I was supposed to go out tonight (a rare event) but couldn't phone to find out

oh amani i never had any idea that you were suffering with PND. Had with ds1 so lots of sympathy being sent your way. You are not a bad mum, or a failure or a bad person and neither do you need to be super mum. Be kind to yourself and if shopping stresses you out (i remember how stressful it can be) order it for delivery. Re the eczema - we were also given aqueous cream which is pants. Samuel has it flare up on his forehead atm but not all the time. I avoid washing his face at all really. I did put some neutrogena soothing moisterisng balm on his face today becuase it did help clear up his sore bum. No experience of reflux. Are you managing any baby groups and making some friendships. With ds1 i went ot a pnd group after i came out of hosp. With this one i am going to a bfing group and a mum and baby group just to give myself somewhere to go and for baby to be amused.

Cazzy & Mac - samuel has his 2nd lot on wednesday too. Very nervous as well and I am also not even sure I am going to be able to sit and feed him there either as got repair work tomorrow.

Had first whole night and 2 days without dp, I Have no idea how single parents manage and take my hat off to them. Have managed to keep it together but late nights to manage it. Dp going to Japan again for 2 weeks in June, Samuel will be coming up 6 months so dp might miss out on him sitting for first time etc.

Anyone got plans for another? We are hoping to start trying in December, going to keep breastfeeding though but by then will only be a couple a day so hopefully clomid will work. Going to hopefully feed Samuel for as long as he wants which will probably mean tandem feeding.

Samuel has been a complete piglet today and made up for the smaller feeds he has been having, pretty much every one has been an hour and then swapped for pudding off the other breast! He was 15lb on thursday just gone but wont be getting him weighed for a while as lots on and will be very sore for next few weeks.

Re mememummy - has she not been back since saying baby on solids? I hope she didnt take offence at my post either

Samuel sucking his fists and grabbing toys now, also trying to roll. Also dribbling loads. He woke me last night as he was chuckling in his sleep, was really cute. Still co sleeping but have set up cot in bedroom for when he is mobile/rolling around. Right next to the bed so will still be easy to get for feeds in the night.

Evie has excema on her head too - she really tries to scratch it.

Awen - is tomorrow d-day. Good luck - hope it all goes well and they manage to fix everything downstairs!

I want to start trying for number 4 in about 2 years.

no 2 for me (if all goes well) we will start trying i guess next jan?

BCG today.

BTW i think she had a gummy ear- i gave her ear a good clean out yesterday because it was so full of wax, only on 1 side. Would also explain why she started screaming when we started to descend in the airoplane, then fell asleep. Better night last night- though i did have to feed her at 3.30am after trying everything else to settle her, so she must be having a growth spurt too.

suey - we had a gummy ear too. also she wants an additional feed in the night, hope it is just temporary....

going for jabs no 3 this morning, she is 16 weeks today. where the hell have the last 4 months gone.

we are having no more babies. i spoke to the dr yesterday about mirena coil but still a little about the side effects so i think dh going to go for the snip instead.

hi everyone

amani - so sorry to hear you're feeling rubbish. I think we all know exactly how you feel even though we don't have PND. That feeling of being overwhelmed and not being able to cope is so familiar to all new mothers I think. I have also found it just so much harder than I thought having two - everyone kept telling me it was more than twice the work but I didn't really believe it until now. I hope your GP/HV are being supportive as well as family and friends and you will get through this although it will be hard. Please keep posting and we will help as much as we can xx

clairey - well done your DS fort sitting up!!! i can't believe he's (almost) doing it already - he's not even 4 months old. Does beig developmentally advanced make up for early nighttime screaming fits?!!

caz10 - I have just bought a medela swing breastpump off ebay this second. I will let you know how I get on with it. I just can't express enough for DS with my manual (avent) one so if I want to come in to work for a few hours something has to be done. Poor DH has been having to cope with a screaming DS an a tantrumming DD the last week. At least when I am there I can shove him on my boob and know he will stop screaming

suey - glad you had a good time in Sevilla. I used to go there quite often as I used to live in Spain - it's so beautiful isn't it? And I love those southern accents

caz10 again (!) - Milo was sleeping through (8pm -6pm) but the last few nights has been waking again so don't know if you want to know my (lack of) routine but basically he feeds all the time during the day - I don't keep track of when or how often but I'd say it averages out at once every 2 hours at least and then he cluster feeds from 5 pm until he goes to bed. I don't know if this is a factor but I have never done a dreamfeed as a) I can't bear to wake him up and b) I think waking him might encourage him to wake more, so that means he always goes from 8pm to at least 2pm which is a lovely long stretch. But like clara says I think it almost all to do with the baby rather than what you do as a parent

macdoodle - good luck with the jabs

louise and macdoodle - we had a nightmare trying to get DS to take a bottle (of EBM) as well. We just persevered and eventually (maybe after a week) he took it and now takes it no problem. It took a lot of crying and was awful but now it's fine. Good luck to you both

I'm going to try BLW as well - thanks for all the links

Hi everyone

Welcome back Suey. I suspect Millie is having a growth spurt if a feed settled her during the night. I think 18-20 wks is usually a growth spurt time as well so just watch out for that and not to be mistaken for ready for weaning (if you want to hold out to nearer 26 wks for that).

Amani, huge cyber Hugs (()) you will never be criticised or anything like that on this thread so please do talk about it if it helps you. I didn't get as far as talking to the GP about my down days and now I do think I just had baby blues as I have more up days than down but totally relate to what you say and describe

Just back from music class for DD and going to have lunch. I think I'm going to need to build a schedule to fit in the chores around her busy social life!

Has anyone heard from Insy? I think it's been a while since I last saw her post

Tis my wedding annerversery today - 2 years. Me and Evie are hifding downstairs trying ti ignore the crying and door slamming from upstairs (does this make me a bad mother???)

Hello everyone.

Had another crap night with ds, but felt a bit better as one of the other mums at Bumps and Babies has had a similar time as well! He seems a lot happier today, was very grumpy and whingy yesterday so hoping he'll have a better night tonight!

Amani - so glad you have posted, like to reinterate what all the rest have said - you are a wonderful mum! But you need some extra help. You will get through it as long as you get the support from HCPS and your family you need. Keep unloading here as much as you want to. Sending you lots of hugs. My ds also has eczema and keeps scratching his head, have been putting on thr HC cream I got from my GP. He has had milder patches on his arms and legs but have been using Johnson's Naturals intensive moisturiser cream twice a day and it has cleared it right up - as well as making him smell gorgeous I've had aqueous cream for my contact dematitis and it's absolute rubbish. I used E45 itch relief cream, not sure if you can use it on babies, does anyone know?
Naps - I've been working on these and try harder to get him to nap. He has 2 short catnaps in the morning, and a long sleep around lunch time and sometimes a cat nap in the afternoon.
Also tried putting him to bed earlier last night, think that was a mistake! I'll start his bedtime routine at 7pm again instead of 6 I think.

Amani- all the best and I hope that you find some of the postings on Neuroticlady's thread helpful. The very fact that her thread has grown so incredibly quickly shows how her feelings resonate with all of us.

Like Clara I think that this will be my only baby. I always wanted two or even three, but the pregnancy was so vile (terrible SPD) that I can't bear the thought of going through it again, especially with a toddler. I have though not been able to bring myself to give away my maternity clothes but have packed them in a box to put on a very very high shelf as it were.

So pleased to see Skid's routine. I don't wear a watch at the moment, which tells you something about routine in this house. We do though always go for a walk in the later afternoon so she naps. Then she has a feed when we get back from that, says hello to DH at 7 and is packed into a bath at 8.30, followed by lullaby, bottle (she's too tired for the breast) and bed. Generally she can sleep about 6 or 7 hours but the last few nights have not been so good. Lots of fist sucking and dribbling here.

Good luck with the jabs. DD seems to hardly notice them afterwards, though she did nap more.

I went out on Saturday for only the third time without DD, just to the dentist (woo hoo!!). I was mortified to be given a seat at the bus stop by a woman who then struck up a conversation about pregnant women and seats on public transport. When I protested that I wasn't pregnant, just had a post-baby paunch , she claimed I "had that pregnancy glow". Shucks. Seems like I need to make that two hour walk in the afternoon even longer in order to get back in shape. I can't bear diets, and beside I'm bf so not keen to mess about with reducing eating.

Wobble - you are not pregnant are you .

Amani - I'm sorry you're feeling so awful. Huge sympathies. I think I have an inkling of how you must be feeling, thankfully it didn't last for me longer than the first 6 weeks on and off, thankfully just baby blues rather than PND. It really shocked me feeling like a wet rag and hollow inside and always thinking DH would leave me as I was so rubbish. Once I had a deep bath to try and make myself feel better and I remember thinking it wouldn't take much to just go under the water. Anyway, as the others say, do vent your feelings here if it helps.

Anyway onto other topics. DS has been a bit difficult on the breast lately. He eats properly at night worst luck, but during the day he's always breaking off to look at things and has consequently been having a few green poos. I'm now trying not to give in to a formula feed as he takes that better and I don't want him to refuse the breast completely.

I think I want to have DC2 in a year or so, haven't consulted DH yet though. It all depends on finances but don't really want Rory to be an only child.

Had better sleep last night. This clock change thing has really helped. Dream feed at 11pm now and he slept through til 3.30 then 5.30 then back down until past 7.

Hello everyone

Amani - just wanted to echo what the others said. I have found being a mum so hard and you have 2 dcs! I'm sure you are doing a brilliant job. My HV thought I was borderline for PND so I can only imagine how you are feeling. I have some really bad days but don't think I actually have PND.

Good luck for everyone who is having to deal with the 2nd set of jabs. DD had hers 2 weeks ago and was fine but I found it really upsetting.

Can't believe some of you are already thinking about another one! I'm still having flashbacks about dd's birth! Having said that, I've done the same as you, wobbegong, and packed my maternity clothes in to a suitcase and put them in the loft in case I change my mind. My DH is an only child and doesn't want dd to be the same so I suppose there is a wee bit of pressure for me.

DD abandoned the routine that she has been following beautifully for the last 2-3 weeks. Last night she went to sleep at arond 7.45 pm, woke up at 9pm and was crying on and off until I decided to feed her at 10.30pm (she hasn't had a night feed for about 5 weeks) She finally went to sleep at 11.30 pm. I think she might be teething - does anyone who is not as clueless as me know if this is likely??! DD is only 16 weeks. She is really dribbly, has been chewing her hands furiously and has had more dirty nappies than usual recently.

Wobbegone - this is my 2nd baby already, hence no more - like Skidaddle, I am finding 2 pretty tough and only cope because dd1 is at childminders 2 days a week and lately dh has been taking a day off each week to go paragliding/help out. I can't believe now that I managed all that time on my own a few weeks ago - although actually I think it is harder now as dd2 sleeps less and needs entertaining more....

I actually didn't think I would want another baby until dd1 was about 8 months, by which time I had forgotten what it was like to be constantly knackered. Now I am starting to remember why I didn't want another baby (only kidding Martha if you ever read this - I love you to pieces, especially when you are sleeping like now!).

Wizzska - sorry you were feeling so crap, glad to hear you are feeling better now. I suspect a lot of people feel pretty awful after their baby is born but few are brave enough to admit it as it's meant to be such a happy, fluffy time. I know I certainly had my moments....

Cazzybabs - happy wedding anniversary! It's mine tomorrow - we managed to avoid getting hitched on April Fool's Day! Are you doing anything nice? We are having a big meal at home, dh chose fish and chips for the main meal and I chose chorizo in red wine for a starter and sticky toffee pudding for a dessert. Thought we would break the diets in spectacular fashion....BTW who was crying and slamming doors upstairs that you were hiding from, not your dh hopefully?

Claireybee - I meant to say congrats on your ds sitting up as well, that's quite an achievement for his age! Martha is starting to sit on her own now but does usually topple over after a few seconds. And I know she is strong compared to most of her contemporaries so you must have a superhero baby!

Skid - I forgot to say, you said AGES ago that you were moving to Oxford - is that to work at the Uni? I love Oxford, at least, I like shopping there, Not sure what it would be like to live there. Have you lived there before? It's not too far from us but unfortunately by the time you move there we'll be thousands of miles away (moving date now almost certainly mid-July).

I was also wondering where Insy had gone, Insy, you're missed, where are you? I also thought about Mellymooks and Neuro, I wonder how they are getting on, especially Neuro on her own....

Have just re-read this and I sound like some manic small child.

Oh and Martha had her third set of jabs this morning and seems fine. She was starving when we got back (which is fairly normal for her!) but was really settled after a feed and is now asleep upstairs. So hopefully there'll be no major side-effects.

Still got her BCG and Hepatitis injections to go - but even more stressful will be dd1's injections. How am I going to get her to stand still and not run away when someone comes towards her with a massive needle, I have no idea! It's so much easier when they are babies and have no idea what's going on and quickly forget all about it.