October 2007 - the golden piglets have landed

[Mumpbump]

I couldn't find a postnatal thread - not sure if I am just missing it with post-childbirth brain! Anyone else around??

miss bumpy - meant to say hope your dh pulls his finger out soon and that your dd is ok...

Ejt - thinking of you and your family and c... Hope your dh is coping with such a difficult time

And hello everyone else!

Hey everyone, colly- sorry to hear you're having a worrying time with your lo loosing weight, i feel for you, must be upsetting having to ff him when you really want to bf, sure it'll work out fine though and he'll be back on the breast in no time . Hope i can get back to brf although i've just tried for the 2nd time and since f councillor left and still can't get a pain free latch no matter how many times i take ds off and put him back on again, dh just giving him some formulato top up the pittyfull amount he must have just got from my boobs , i talked about it with dh though, i'm gonna give it a good shot and speak to the bf councillor again in the morn but if i really just can't manage to do it with no pain then it'll be back to ff and at least i'll know i haven't given up without a fight, just felt like i gave up without getting any proper help before so at least if i've tried all the options i can't beat myself up about it so much. Anyway hope everyone is doing ok, catch ya later

That is what feeding has been like for me Dalry. Sometimes he goes on and it doesn't hurt. I study the latch and position like crazy but the next time it hurts and I can't see a difference in what I am doing. It's so frustrating. He's not been feeding so much today thankfully - I hope that he doesn't kick off in the night.

I get a tummy ache every night. I think it must be anxiety as it has been going on for over a week now. It's really not nice.

Colly - make sure you express if you're not bf or your milk supply will drop off even within a 48 hour period. I would also call a bf counsellor and ask for help if you want to keep bf. I find mw and hv are not always as supportive of bf as they could be. It's a personal choice, but it would be a shame if you want to bf and wind up unable to because they aren't telling you how to keep your milk supply going. The other thing to do would be to try to express between feeds and freeze the milk. In theory, at least, that should increase your supply. Try putting a post on here for Tiktok if you haven't done so already - I think she is a bf counsellor or equivalent expert.

stefka & Dal - good on you carrying on with the bf!

Colly - don't stop offering the breast - you'll get all engorged, and may disrupt your supply! Have you spoken to a bf counsellor? I know I bang on about it, but not all midwives are trained bf counsellors, and they can end up taking out of their backsides! for you about the weight loss - hope it all settles down!

Mairwen has just done a classic ... she slept most of the afternoon after we went to the massage class, then decided she didn't want to go to sleep this evening - eventually, I asked dh to just come and sit with her and try to settle her as I desparately needed a shower and a hairwash! Anyway, she watched me leave the room, studied the area where I'd gone for 2 minutes, then seemed to realise I wasn't coming back, so started to bawl her head off!
I have now had my shower, but bang goes my early night again!

Right, off to express - it'll be interesting to see how much I get tonight - it was 9pm before she went down properly!

Alice - is the Gaviscon working for Adam?

Colly - X-posted with Mumpbump ... would also second that you put out a call for tiktok - she's fab!

One thing I read on a website - can't recall what it was I will look it up later - was not to keep taking your baby on and off as that is when damage can happen. IF the latch is obviously bad and really sore take the baby off but often I would just grit my teeth through the first bit then leave him on because I think taking him on and off caused more damage to my nipples.

My last coupe of feeds were really painful again too - so horrible when I have had good ones. I am starting to feel like I just can't breast feed. I just can't get it right. 6 people have looked at my latch but no one seems able to help. Maybe once the cracks are better it will be ok.

The good thing is (touch wood) Dareh sleeps really well at night once he is asleep. Hope everyone got some rest last night.

The bf counsellor I spoke to when I had the problems at first talked about the 10 second toe curl ... this is when it can be excruciating - but if it still hurts after you've counted to 10 slowly, then there's something wrong, and you should take baby off.

(Apparently the 10-seconds is how long it takes for you milk to start coming through your nips ... it worked for me - I used to count to 10, and 9 times out of 10, it would be fine after that... )

Am being cranky and unreasonable with everybody this morning .. Mairwen didn;t go down until nearly 9pm - so after I'd faffed and farted around, it was nearly 11 before I got to bed.

Then was up with M between about 245 and 4am - I have to sit her bolt upright after a feed for about 30 minutes, or it all comes back up again, and she screams with the pain), then again from 5-630am - she was very restless ... then ds woke up (late for him) at about 7am, he was singing his song for the Christmas play (something about Australia? ), and wanted somebody to take him to the loo - I lay in bed, willing dh to get up ... he slept through it all, so I crawled out of bed and sorted him out ... I have been an absolute witch to dh this morning ...

Have just resorted to caffeine to keep me awake ... am supposed to be going out this morning, but don't know if I'm safe to drive!

Never mind ... perhaps I'll go back to bed now!

Hi all
THanks for the advice re the b/f and sleeping through. Henry didn't spend as much time in his sling yesterday and even when I went out for a walk with Ollie and friends he didn't sleep just kept looking at me (ahhhh!) I thnk this helped him sleep a lovely 4 ish hours straight last night. He fed f/f at 9pm (I went to bed) then 12.30 then 4ish then 6.30am. I thnk that's not bad at 3 weeks?

I have put him on our comfy chair in the kitchen -where I am at the table typing- and he is crying as I have dared to put him down. I think I'm doing controlled crying with him awake as I really need to be able to start putting him down for a even just a few mins!!! Going to give him 5 mins then going over. He's been fed, just had fresh nappy -well, actually 2 nappies as he pooed in the second one just as I had fastened it and there's no wind at all in him as it went into the nappy!

Dh is out on a jolly with workmates tonight so he will be in late -why did I ever agree to that one? ( hang on, did I ever agree??) So are on own all today + tonight. Ollie is home early from nursery as he's got the Christmas party so I guess it will be dvd's for him for the rest of the afternoon....bad mummy, bad mummy!

Henry has stopped crying (said in a whispering voice....)

Going to go and visit the jewellers tomorrw as I need to get my wedding ring mended as it had to be cut off due to swelling. It'll have to be melted down and completely done again as it's in 2 pieces. My eternity ring is doubling as a wedding ring atm as I can now get it on and off!

Back in a pair of my old gap jeans though still can't do up my monsoon ones and even managed a pair of high heeled boots today so feeling more like me...
speak later x

www.drjacknewman.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=57&Itemid=87

The stuff about latching was here. I have read it a million times though and I still can't get things right.

If you don't have time to read it this was the bit about not taking the baby on and off:

Do not take the baby on and off the breast several times to get the perfect latch. If the baby goes on and off the breast 5 times and it hurts, you will have 5 times more pain, and worse, 5 times more damage.

Hurrah for the Hugabub! Rebecca is happy as can be in it this morning, so mummy can do some washing and play on mumsnet.

Colly, good luck with the bfeeding. I am no expert but I agree with the others - keep expressing to keep the supply up. I have an electric Avent pump and it's brilliant - I've only expressed twice but I got a lot both times - I stopped because the midwives told me it was best to feed directly if possible but I sort of plan to restart once Rebecca's three weeks old... to give Mummy a break...

Dal, ditto. You're doing so well to keep trying. I still recommend the shields - the midwife who suggested them to me basically saved me from switching to ff and now Rebecca can latch on on her own and it seems fine. Though she has loads of wind (about which more in a sec).

Stefka, is it getting any easier? My book suggests that you could have a proper latch but Dareh could be a barrucuda baby with a strong suck... is that likely? and if so, not sure what you could do about it but worth exploring?

Ejt/Muppet/everyone else, my baby doesn't sleep enough!!! I calculated she had eight hours yesterday (over 24 hour period). Is that not very little??? she seems fine on it but I am not. Oh and she has a lot of wind sometimes (okay during the day but at night has been worse last 2 nights). Am wondering if it is broccoli as I've had it two nights in a row... any thoughts/advice? Oh and what time do you bath your babies - I am finding it hard to do it last thing at night as we are so zonked!

Anyway time to wash more of the princess's new clothes. She has way more than me... have a good day all!

Some feeds are better than others - it all seems totally random though. I hadn't heard of barrucuda babies - I will look into that. It might just hurt until the wounds on my nipples have healed up but I think that will take ages.

I found that if I eat broccoli or cauliflower Dareh gets bad wind so I have been avoiding it.

Hey everyone, well the bf councillor came round and we tried and tried ad she said that i wasn't doing anything wrong, in fact she said she'd never seen a baby not open it's mouth so much, is seems ds chomps but never opens his mouth really wide to get a good enough mouthfull for it not to hurt. We tried a nipple shield and it was possibly worse not better! Anyway she GAVE ME an electric breast pump to keep, she said i can carry on trying him but in the meantime express as any milk he gets from me is good, she also said it might even be better once he's a bit older and his mouth gets bigger. So i think it was worth seeing her again just to clarify i am actually getting the technique right but his mouth won't open enough and also to get the electric pump! So i'm gonna express for now and top up with formula when needed then carry on trying him occasionally to see if it's got any better, at least he'll be getting some breast milk which will be good for him.
Inzi - ds does the spitting out bottle thing but it's usually when he's still hungry but got a burp stuck, he's really bad at holding on to burps, we usually burp him once or twice during a feed and once at the end... although you're probably already doing this just thought i'd mention it in case it might be why? if not i'm not the only other time ds spits his ff out is if it's gone slightly cold, he's very fussy, has to be quite warm for him, sorry if thats no help at all but thought i'd mention in case it was anything to do with the prob your having. Stefka, i feel your frustration, i honestly don't know where you find the strenth to carry on, you're so brave, all i can say is well done, wish i could do what you do, really hope it gets better soon , i se what you mean about taking ds off and on if latch not right, both my nips are sore after all the trying this morning . Anyway hope everyone is coping ok, catch ya later

Hi all again!

God, twice in one day???

Henry is asleep on his change mat with a blanket over him and he did this earlier today so it proves he can be somewhere else without mummy for a little length of time Ollie is watching telly as he's knackered from his party at nursery. I've just cleaned out the utility room as it was looking really foul and now need to go and make the beds. Having to change our bedsheets more often due to the wonderful night sweats so the washing machine never really stops atm.

Those of you who are struggling with the b/f -well done for getting this far!!! I think it's a good idea to rest the old nips occasionally and express one or two feeds. I'm happy to do this and let Henry have a f/f or have my expressed milk at the 1st sign of soreness. I've been really lucky this time round as we seemed to gel from the 1st feed, it never hurt and he's good at it. My problem was I didn't have any milk for him so we made the f/f decision early on. If I could steer him on course to feed every 4 hours life would be almost perfect! When he is 6 weeks old (in 2 weeks) dh has 2 weeks off so we are going to get H into his own bed then, maybe even into his own room...

Re the sucky baby question, H is a sucky baby as he desperately tries to suck his hand but can't quite control it yet. We give him a dummy to sooth him and take it away when he spits it out. Ollie had one and had it virtually glued to his mouth. We told him that when he was 3 he wouldn't have at all as he would be a big boy (he only had it at night by then anyway) and he seemed fine with this so it really didn't turn into being a problem.

Have a good afternoon all
x

hi all!

just a qiukey from me. Am employing dd as pa she's typing as i dictate.

stefca- the pain wont go untill your heeled up.
i to was told there were no problems with the latch but had lots of pain bleeding and rawness.have you tried puting you forefinger below and your thumb above your nipple and pressing so that you make a shape that will fit more easily into babies mouth while at the same time pressing down with your thumb so that your nipple is pointing slightly upwards? this helped for me.good luck with it and well done for getting this far when you are in so much pain.

sorry for any spelling mistakes as my dd goes to a welsh school and cant spell engligh !!!!!

by for now
axxxxxx

I haven't tried that no - so would they be in the 12 and six o'clock position on your breast? He just fed for an hour and my left side was really sore. I feel exhausted and really fed up. There must be plenty of people who don't care about BF who can do it and here's me who really wants to do it and can't.

Stefka, just wanted to say i feel exactly like that, why is it some people find it so easy? gets annoying that it has to be this difficult, hang in there

Hi Dal and Stefka, it isn't you two! It's about the baby too, so it isn't that you're not doing something right, it's just that at the moment between you and the baby it isn't working for whatever reason. Stefka, I do the twelve/six o'clock thing too (some people suggest none/three o'clock so I've done that as well) - if I don't then the baby tends to chomp on the nipple. I think it's about shaping the nipple or something...? I read it somewhere - think it might have been What to Expect when you're Breastfeeding, which Alice recommended and I've found fantastic. Dal - maybe you could try that too?? it might help with Dylan's mouth opening. Oh and I wondered if you had thought of ringing the NCT too and seeing if another counsellor could help? A second opinion might be useful. Though the pump being given to you is great!

Inzi, I am sooooo jealous - dream baby sleep or what?! 11-5 - never been known in the life of Rebecca...

Muppet, you sound so sorted! And with two at home as well!

Been out this afternoon to the supermarket with parents and Rebecca - she was v good and didn't sleep but looked around her a lot and was very lively and cute. Shattered because her sleep is so limited and thus so is mine... DH back home now.

Have a good evening all!

Hi Dal and Stefka - I know just how you feel. I thought I was making progress but tonight am so sore again that I'm wondering if the thrush has made a return. All I can say is that if b/f really matters to you ( as it does to me) then just keep telling yourself you are doing a fantastic and remarkable thing for your babies. Every day is an achievement. I'm not looking too far ahead, but just trying to get through each 24 hours and enjoying the less painful feeds. I do hope that the next 24 hours aren't so bad. x

I am the same as you katsh - taking it one day at a time. I give myself goals - my current one is to get to six weeks which is on Sunday. I have also thought I was making progress only for things to go backwards again. It's so horrible.

I went to the breastfeeding support group the other day but found it really depressing. The other women there fed their babies while I was there and it looked so easy and natural. I am no where near that.

Ladies sorry to hear so many of you are struggling. I really feel for you - I ad loads of problems with Sam (ds1) but managed to bf till 5 and a half months so just because I'm a bad ff mum this time doesn't mean I don't understand how you feel... As Katsch says you are doing a great thing for your babies and anytime you can continue will do them good.

Would second Coc on trying the nipple shields - Sam was on these the whole time so the stuff about it stopping your milk supply is clearly not true if he managed that long! Plus recommend the book Choc said as a life saver.

I would also get someone to check your lo doesn't have a tongue tie - this is one of the commonest congenital problems (not that common though) and can affect bf - Sam had this and I didn't realise this. It is apparently one of the commonest causes for failure to bf since although your lo gets what looks like a good latch the fact that their tongue is stuck into the floor of their mouth means they are not drawing your nipple in properly so it gets damaged. Your los probably DON'T have this but it is very easy to treat if they do so worth checking...

Ejt the Gaviscon is helping Adam - thanks for asking! Sounds like Mairwen as it much worst than him though - are you winning yet? And how is C?

Inzi - Sounds to me like ti would be worth trying Jane wit a dummy if she likes to suck - Adam is the same and it works wonders! Sam would never keep it in and I remember many an hour sat with my thumb in his mout instead!!!

Choc - looking forward to seeing you tomorrow! I'll let you know if we're running late but otherwise see you about 11.30.

Hello and big hugs to everyone else....

Well dh and I were in bed by 8.30 last night and back to bed now! But the plus from today is I managed to get both boys up and out to take Sam to nursery for 8 (dh was working in London today so had to leave at 6.30). Then Adam and I went back to bed until 10.30 which was fab! Lovely relaxing lunch with some girlfriends and then a bit of shopping... And one of my mates helped us with bedtime until dh got home so that wasn't too stressful either... See you tomorrow!