********** December 2006 PART 2 **************

[castlesintheair]

Will this do?

I found it hard to go to kids things with dd1 as well. I'm determined my girls get to do fun things instead of being stuck at home with me all of the time

Hi all

I posted on the antenatal thread as Baconbaps but I've done nothing but lurk around since. I have been reluctant to post as I can't post often enough to keep up with everything iyswim but feeling a bit isolated so thought I would reach out a bit. Gah, so much to write so forgive the length.

My boy, James, is now 16 weeks and is an absolute joy which is fantastic as his father is not around at all so I was worried about doing it alone. My girls (14 and 15) have been a huge help though. So, DS now weighs 161b 12oz (71b 12 at birth) and is a happy, placid little chap. I'm still solely breast feeding and tbh everything's been a lot easier than I expected. I feel guilty that it's been maybe too easy so far and hope I don't end up paying for it in the future!

I was so shocked the other day to see a December antenatal thread! I can't believe it's been a whole year since I found out and, omg, I got broody just reading it! I must be insane.

Anyway, I am such a billy no mates these last few years (seem to have lost the knack of maintaining friendships - I'm crap at keeping in touch with people) that I forced myself out this week with DS because a) I would like some adult conversation and b) want DS to be sociable seeing as he only sees me and DDs every day. So on Tuesday after I got him weighed we went to a group called Let's Talk Babies which then leads into baby massage.

I felt a bit out of place as the other 3 mums all knew each other, they all FF, all have DHs, their babies are all girls and are all around 8 weeks old, all are first time mums and are all younger than me! I will persevere with it though.

Today I took him to a soft play place but all the kids were older and again, the mums who go seem to know each other so I sat in the soft area and played with DS on my own while all the mums chatted and sat on the sofas eating toast

It's hard being sociable and getting past the small talk! I'm so not used to it and feel very self concious and it's all a bit forced atm. Hopefully things will get easier and these things take time I suppose.

See, this is why I should post more otherwise it's nothing for months and then it all comes out and people will skim past as it takes too long to read And FFS look at the time! I'll try and post at a more civilised hour next time.

welcome bectheneck.

You are all right about these groups being difficult to penetrate but my tip is to keep going and when people recognise you they'll smile one week, then they'll say hi the next.

if you are shy then an activity class like signing or gym or swimming is best as you dont have to talk to anyone it will eventually come. I've always avoided M&T groups for the cliquey reason too.

Well, DD slept really well last night. 730-4.15 then 4.20-7am. I am in heaven. I started baby rice 2 days ago. do you think it might be linked? it may of course be a one off but here's hoping....

Morning !

Another sleepless night ! Ds woke up every hr ! ..I was exhausted and told DH to see to him next time he woke and when he did - they watched cricket together !Think DH is keen for him to get into sports - but at 5mths ?! bit early to get interested !! Ds threw up so much just be4 we settled him to bed - this seems to becoming a habit for the last 3 nights , me thinks the sleepless nights have happened because he throws up so much and fall asleep afterwards in exhaustion then gets so hungry in the night ..wish the milk would stay down and then he wouldnt be waking up so much ! Will try gaviscon 2night - but dreading it because its blooming hard work trying to get it down him when he screams and spits it out ! So how am i supposed to get it down him ? Does anyone have any alternative ways to get gaviscon into him ? ( im b/f and he hasnt quite gotten used to formula yet !)

((Hugs)) to everyone having a hard time.

AQ, Eli, Jabber (and anyone else whose gone from 1 to 2) can I just say (yes it was me Eli), I found it really hard going from 1 to 2 but it will get better.

Re routines, structure to the day etc, I really try not to get too hung up about this. Children really do like time to just do their own thing and if you are always carting them here there and everywhere and baking, playing, being creative etc all the time at home, then they won't learn to entertain themselves. My eldest is at school now but DD1 (just 3) doesn't go to nursery. She goes to 2 M&T groups with me a week, ballet one afternoon and the rest of the time hangs out with me at home, shopping, going to friends houses or we have friends over maybe once or twice a week. We do art, cooking, reading, gardening, housework (!) etc now and then but she spends alot of time pootling about. She knows I'm there and she's very happy.

Re the M&T groups. I sympathise as I found them a nightmare to begin with but I persevered for the sake of my DCs and I go to 2 in the same church (I always find these more relaxed) a week. I've made some lovely friends, people I can really have a laugh with and lean on etc. You have to really work at it and try not to judge them (as I did).

I'm not being smug at all, I'm just sharing my experience. I was so lonely and sad for so long but thankfully things are much better now and when I'm on my own at home with my DCs, I just enjoy it. I think DS starting at school full-time aged 4 really made me appreciate how little we have them for.

For those with being at home with 2 kids, i can sympathise with you , and know how hard work it can be trying to please 2 kids at same time !. Im at home mostly with ds2 , dd1(3.6yrs) goes to nursery f/t but have had days when i have both at home ...I try to encourage dd to do it yourself activities ie drawing , sticking pictures , play with her dolls etc..Im always explaining to her that i have to feed ds 1st before complying with her wishes , then once ds is happy and full , i can enjoy doing something with her with ds watching us from his bouncer chair. All that expaining seems to have paid off - as she now does her own stuff whilst im attending to ds. I used to feel guilty having to give ds so much attention and worry about dd , but now i dont because i see a happy girl whos got such a wild imagination !

Thanks all for the support & the ideas. I'm like you castles in that we were quite happy pootling about & I never wanted to do lots of groups. But it doesn't seem like that works any more for us. He won't play unsupervised anymore, he's very anxious and clingy with me. I have wept buckets this morning (still going actually) as I took him to preschool and he just looked lost in the playground. He does have a couple of special friends but they're not there today. He seems to be really struggling, I'm going to pick him up early this arvo. DS2 screaming his head off on the way back and me with tears dripping down my cheeks. For all the talk of structure I still have nothing to do today or tomorrow and all my friends are working or busy. The last thing I feel like doing is dragging one or more children to a m&t group, it's like pulling teeth! But I guess if you want your children to have lots of friends, you've got to make the effort yourself.

I've got to go back to work otherwise I lose the maternity pay I've got which will be thousands, but I'm hard pressed to see how it's going to work & everyone's going to be happy. I like my job, I miss the challenge and the social side of it. But I was working 3 full days, if I do that now I won't have any time with ds2 on his own & ds1 will find it harder too as it will be longer days at nursery.

Welcome back, bec!

DD1 said to me, very matter-of-factly, 'You'll be glad I'm going to X's house on Friday to play because then you'll only have one little girl to worry about'. I felt awful that she would think that she was getting in the way, or being a burden. And then I realised that all I had said to her for several days was 'No', 'Don't do that', 'Hurry up', 'You are behaving quite badly' ... you get the picture. So yesterday I made a real effort to spend some time with her, and it was lovely DD2 had her 3rd set of jabs, so slept all afternoon in the pram as DD1 and I walked and talked and sang.

There's not a huge amount of structure to our days. DD1 goes to nursery every morning for 2.5 hours, which is when I do my RL work. Then we have lunch, go for a walk. Then we sometimes bake together, but mostly we pootle around each other quite happily. (except, obviously, when I'm being a narky cow - see above )

DD2 is now 14lb7oz at 17 weeks. She hasn't doubled her birthweight yet (7lb12oz), but she is sleeping through the night, so I don't think she's hungry! And if you could see her thighs she's her mother's daughter! I MUST buy some larger nappy wraps soon (like today!).

AQ, I'm sorry, it's really hard, I know. I think your DS1 is suffering with all the changes. He's still really young and they find it very hard at that age to adapt. This is why my 3 year old doesn't go to nursery. She freaked out when I tried to send her in September so I decided all the changes were too much for her and kept her at home. As I said, she's really happy and confident now. My DS (now 5) freaked out last summer when I was suddenly obviously pg, we moved house and his daddy went back to working in the City full-time. So I took him out of nursery for a week and we all went on the train up to Scotland (fishing) and had a fab time. He came back happy as larry and hasn't looked back since. Maybe you need to take DS1 out of nursery for the day and spoil him rotten just so he knows how special he is. I know it's hard having them around all the time but it might be worth it in the long run. Could you get your mum to help out with DS2?

((HUGS))) to you. Just remember what I keep saying, it gets better. DS & DD1 are such good company for each other now the struggle of the early days makes it worthwhile more than a million times over

Hello all! Just a quick weaning question as I daren't ask it on the weaning board, which is a shame really.

I started ds on baby rice yesterday, I know that one teaspoon is recommended but he went wild, he grabbed the spoon and was shoving it in as quckily as he could. I used a baby spoon and he had a bout 4 spoonfulls so probably a couple of teaspons. so my questions are

Does he know when to stop?
Can his body cope with more than a teaspoon?
How long do you just keep to baby rice?

it's funny because ds is my second child but dd was 6 years ago and I just can't remember, also she ate and still eats like a sparrow.

Lucy, DS was like this at 16 weeks I think I gave him about 4/5 tsps of rice the 1st time and he walloped the lot! He couldn't get enough of it. Grabbed the spoon out of my hand. In fact his first "words" aged about 10 months were if you said "DS are you hungry?" he'd reply with a massive smile "yes"!
My 2 girls weren't so interested, DD2 (now 5 months nearly) still turns her nose up, much to my annoyance
Btw, DS has no allergies, still eats an enormous amount and is perfectly proportioned!

Oh and I think I moved him onto purreed fruit, veggies within about a week

Thanks Castles sounds just like my boy, it was almost as if he was ravenous! I remember watching a friend's ds eating when dd was little and being shocked. He was an eating machine, he worked his way through about a pound of cherries and dd managed 6.

welcome back bacon! sounds really hard for you with no dp, but your girls must be a great support. I have been to groups like that before
lucy, i thought that as long as they were having milk first (breast or formula) it didn't matter so much how much they ate cos they'd be filled up properly with the milk? But i never used baby rice, went straight to butternut squash and banana I think. Seems so long ago

castles, thanks v.much for the wisdom, I do think ds1 is having a hard time of it, he seems very hard to figure out at the moment, i lie in bed thinking about how to make things better for him but then the day takes over again, i'm tired & low & ds2 still feeds ALL the time and never has a decent nap. it was 40 mins yesterday morning whilst ds1's friend was here, then 20 mins in the afternoon. Mum has ds1 tuesdays, perhaps I should ask her to take ds2 for half the day whilst I do something special with my eldest. I did manage to read him his bedtime stories last night & he was very happy about that. I was also thinking of resuming tennis on sunday mornings (i tried when he was 2 but he was too young) as that could be our thing. I don't see how on earth you manage to spend quality time with all 3 of yours, I feel both of mine getting totally raw deal at the mo' and ds2 has been cried on all morning too!

Still crying at the pc, can't stop today, need to go out but can't think where to go. I'll just mark this down as a very crappy day I think!

sorry I meant bec, groups like that can really put you off, you need more in common than just having a baby! It's just finding something that suits you and the days you're available etc. And many of the things round here start at 6 months when they're more able to interact.

Have you eaten AQ? I always found when it got uncontrollable (oh yes, quite often happened to me) that if I stopped and had something to eat it helped. Also, just get out of the house and walk round the block. Watch Neighbours! Read Heat! Just do something banal that will take your mind off it all for a while. Said it before but if you ever need to chat more castlesintheair at hotmail dot co uk

Thinking of you

AAAArrrghhhhh, Ive just trodden on a barbie and woken ds up!

I just wanted to say I know how how you feel, I felt like this with dd. Going out was just going through the motions. It does get better magnesium and vit b really helped me. Sorry I have to go as ds is now screaming. What ever you do, don't be to hard on yourself and know that it won't last for ever . xxxx

errr, no, forgot to eat! best go and have something durrr. thanks castles and lucy (thought you meant bbq at first lucy, aussie in me coming out!). If ds will have a nap (he hasn't yet, been up for over 4 hours) I'm going to do a bit of cooking/baking that always cheers me up and it's nice and productive. Plus tidy up the entire house as that is really getting to me. I've been leaving it at night as once I come down at 8.30 all I have energy for is sit in front of tv & mumsnet. So house a bit of a tip.

will email, castles, thank you

AQ - (((hugs))) it will get better i promise. Have you talked to your DH much about how you are feeling? He might be able to take a few days off to help a bit while you have a rest.

lucy5 - my dd has had baby rice the last 2 days. I have her a b/f and then the baby rice. She wolfed down about 8 baby spoons worth the first time and then about 10 yesterday. Not sure how many tea spoons that is

AQ, so sorry to hear you're feeling so crappy. I don't have much practical advice as it's so long since my DDs were little that I've forgotten what my days used to be like! I think it helped that DD1 was so placid and seemed to adjust quite well. Poor thing used to just sit back and let DD2, who was a right royal PITA, get all the attention. It's still a bit like that now!

As castles said, make sure you are looking after yourself cos if you're hungry/tired everything seems ten times worse. And it will get better as you all adjust. This will sound really glib and I say it so often I'm going to get slapped by someone soon, but it will pass and blimey they grow up so quick so try and savour the good bits!

Hope that doesn't sound dismissive of the way you're feeling as I have suffered from depression quite badly - never PND though - and I know how horrid that feeling of 'is this it?' is. I have to force myself to focus on the positives which I'm able to now as I'm feeling quite good in general but not so easy if you're already feeling crap.

Big hugs to you - everything will be ok.Have you seen your GP yet?

((AQ)) hope you've had a good breakfast now, will ds2 nap if you take him out in the pram? Just thinking a bit of fresh air might help then you can come home and cook while he sleeps?

Have to clarify from the other day - playing with ds1 involves sitting in the playroom with the laptop and MNetting while he plays . He prefers playing on his own (honest!), occasionally I have to be Fireman Sam or someone else and be 'rescued' but generally he potters around on his own planet! Dd's pretty independent too, so she just does her own thing or follows me around 'helping' with housework, etc. Didn't want you all to think I was some kind of supermum, constantly playing with my kids! The reason I go out so much is because they drive me up the wall when they're all cooped up in the house .

It's strange that you can have good and bad feelings running alongside eachother. Every now and again I feel tearful and low but at the same time I my heart fills with love for both dds.

I'm so sorry that you're feeling low AQ.

Bec - Hello - Your girls are beautiful and your boy is just gorgeous! Keep at the meeting up. I feel quite proud of myself each time I put myself in the mums social circle. It's another obstacle I've gotten over - and don't worry about your age, you're not old!

Sorry, forget to say 'hi' to Bec - nice to see you back! Much respect for doing it alone, dh is away every so often and I count down the hours until he's back. I can't imagine doing it fulltime, or having teenagers AND a baby. You sound as though you're doing a grand job though.

Lucy, ds1 was a huge piggy when I weaned him, he hated baby rice so went straight onto sweet potato, butternut squash, apple and pear within the first week. He used to eat 2 ice cubes worth and would have had more if I'd offered it! Now he's a long, lanky thing with an appetite like a sparrow. I think they just know when to stop.

Re groups, I've been going to a singing group for 10 weeks now, and signed up for a 5 week baby massage course (just finished, is now 5 weeks baby yoga). This week I started swimming and lo and behold there was someone from each of those two groups there so now when we are at those groups we have swimming to chat about and when at swimming we have yoga or singing to talk about - has suddenly made a difference to chat about things rather than just 'how is your baby doing' so do persevere with the groups and you will meet others and have something to chat about. I started feeling couped up in the house when ds was 3 days old!!!! (bearing in mind we left hospital on his b-day and went straight to my mothers so I'd only had 1 day at home) so from then on made sure I got out almost every day - people thought I was crazy and should relax and enjoy cuddling my son but I know I would have been very down if I had stayed at home.

I'd love to do baby yoga, Sacha, sounds wonderful, but nothing near me. I've done yoga for years but haven't managed since ds2 was born, can't get to a class at present. I'm making a list of the classes around here, and going to try and make next week get out of the house every day!

Have had some lunch, thank you all (toasted ciabatta with goats cheese & salad, thought I'd be nice to myself). Didn't manage to get out of the house yet, ds2 asleep in his cot though I think he's waking now. Watched end of Desperate Housewives which makes me laugh & Neighbours too!

It is just about the positives, isn' it? I've been trying to write down nice things the 2 of them say and do every night this week, dp & I think of them together it's a nice way to end the day. Having their photos on my bedside table very lovely too. Appreciate all the support, I really do, I must make more contact with people in RL too though, have hardly seen a friend (non-baby) for weeks.