November 2012 - Is is too early for birthday plans?!

[StuntNun]

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/postnatal_clubs/1794169-November-2012-The-Adventure-Continues

[izzybizzybuzzybees]

We had a crap night.... Again! Sick of this! But I can't see it changing til he's on solids which could be forever away :-(

[MissMummy1]

We were going to do the safari park today but hayfever season says no

[Stacks]

We had a better night last night. Thankfully. Took ages to settle so it was nearly 9 before he was asleep, then up at 10, 10:30, 11, 12:30, 3:30, 5:30 and on/off feeding till getting up at 8. So I got a 3 hour stretch in there.. Which was when the cat woke me . Still, feeling better today for the slightly better sleep.
We're off out to the Botanical Gardens today. It's quite late to be heading out, but T napped well at home this morning while I did the washing, and we've missed the heat of the day now. Just the humidity left .

Found out yesterday T loves cooked apple. We cut an apple up into wedges and microwaved for a couple of minutes till soft. He ate the whole apple (minus the skins, which he just sucked clean) BLW style.
We also got omeprazole to try, this mornings dose mixed with water was not liked at all. So I've made up some apple purée to try and give it with tomorrow. I didn't get any advice from the dr though, should we keep up with the domperidone too? Try just omeprazole first?

[YellowWellies]

Stacks when are you off to see the paed about CMPI or reflux? I know you're wary of going onto an exclusion diet until you've seen them, but that number of wake ups at this age is a bit mad and just sounds like he's comfort feeding because his throat or belly hurts tbh. You must be exhausted though do you have anyone who can take him and let you snooze for a wee while?

As for meds, I would only continue with domperidone if the doc has said to, to be honest we are just fine on omeperazole (which turns off the proton pumps which make stomach acid, and so means any reflux doesn't burn). Breast milk leaves the tummy pretty quickly anyway so you don't really need domperidone to flush things through into the lower intestine if BF (unlike with some anti reflux FF which are harder to digest and stay in the stomach longer and therefore have greater potential to cause problems with vomiting).

Sorry I forget does your wee one have silent reflux or does he actually puke? If he's a puker I'd be maybe be tempted to keep taking domperidone, but otherwise not. When Jonas was on domperidone he fed ALL the time a) because there was still stomach acid coming up and burning his throat because it does jack shit about the acidity, so he was comfort feeding for the antacid effect of BM, and b) because domperidone flushes the contents of the stomach through quickly - he probably felt starving hungry all of the time.

If you get no improvement on omeperazole - then IMHO you need to do an exclusion diet. We were advised to do one from day one as any baby sensitive to detect CMPI in BM is highly sensitive anyway. The NHS is doing a big study at present to see if early exclusion or early inclusion is best for long term allergies and intolerances, the findings will be in next year (handily too late for me grrrr ). But to be honest, he was in so much pain and discomfort we got to the point where we had to sod worrying about potential intolerances in the future (omeperazole is also linked with dietary intolerances because of the way that it deals with proteins in the stomach) - if your baby is in pain because of a current intolerance and isn't getting any sleep during their first year (with all of the rapid growth and developmental needs that entails) then future intolerances are a bit moot. Jonas has really severe CMPI but sleeps through 3 nights a week, and has one feed the rest, so it's not an impossibility. Equally if you are living on 3 hours sleep a night - the current solution is incredibly hard on you. I'd be wary of allowing your DH's fears of what ifs for the future ruin your mental and physical health (let's face it, it's not him getting up and BF every hour is it) and your babies first year when there is a solution. So yes I really really hope you can see a paed soon. Fingers and toes crossed for you lovely x

[StuntNun]

I ate a doughnut. I'm a bad mummy. I took one bite, thought does this have egg in it? Then ate it anyway. Poor J is going to have a rotten time of it isn't he. Dammit why can't things come with big signs on saying may contain egg.

[izzybizzybuzzybees]

I feel your pain stacks that sounds like a pretty normal night for us before omeprazole. J is allergic to milk, egg and peanuts so far and likely more. His is definite allergy as opposed to intolerance. He is a bit better on omeprazole and we now get usually at least one 3 hour chunk and a good few two hourly wake ups too. I think his dose may need increased though. It's difficult getting him to take it as he is the taking any solids at all and maybe solids would help the wake ups too.

yw has masses of good advice, she mentioned she thought J had allergy or intolerance issues many months ago and I didn't feel he did but I was proved completely wrong! I'm not sure I ever did thank you yw? So thanks!

An exclusion diet is tricky, we have to avoid all three just now and as stunt found out some things aren't labelled well. I've had a few slip ups but do mostly ok. Though my diet isn't doing so well after discovering banana soreen!

[izzybizzybuzzybees]

Oh and any haggis peeps in for a meet this Tues?

[izzybizzybuzzybees]

And stunt you are NOT a bad mummy!

[Passmethecrisps]

Lots of donuts don't have dairy in stunt!

Cooler here. Thank feck.

Jealous of your visit to the botanic gardens stacks. Love a bit of botanic action.

No safari park here today - it was too warm earlier and we spent too long sitting around on our arses to do much.

Been on a Facebook purge today. Fear not lovely mum chums - it was my "for the love of Queen, God and Ulster" orange order fanny relatives. Do as you will but don't be urging "death to all the taiges" (no idea about spelling) and then liking pictures of my wee nephew who happens to have a catholic Daddy.

Makes me RAGE

[Passmethecrisps]

Or egg

[Passmethecrisps]

Yup izzy. I'm up for a blether.

[Evilwater]

Hello everyone, I hope you are all making good use of the sunshine. It's pretty much been 30c all day. N has been in the paddling pool for an hour just to cool down. We are off to the pool tomorrow, as all the nice cool places to swim, ie the moors and sea will be packed!

Work has been ok, nothing much changes. I'm just tired after doing 12 hours and miffed at only getting paid for 11.

Evil

[Stacks]

yw we see the peads on 24th July, so not long to go now really. I've been doing the exclusion diet since 1st July except one day early on which included chocolate cake, after talking it all over with DH. I had hoped for an obvious improvement by now, but it's not materialised. DH really wants to try giving T egg and milk as pure foods to see if he reacts again. The first reaction was very mild so he's not worried about what might happen. I'm worried, but can't feel I can dictate on this, so I've said he can do it on a day we're both home with the car so if we have to rush him to a&e we can. This passive aggressive compromise seems to have worked so far and he's not tried it.
The thing with the meds is that they're sort of prescribed by proxy. The dr wrote the consultant a letter, she phoned me directly and told me about changing dose and if that didn't work changing meds. She didn't then write the promised note to the dr telling him this. So dr gave me omeprazole based on my description of the conversation, but with no advice to go with it.
We opted for just omeprazole, which he took this morning. He's seemed a bit refluxy today, but not too bad. Not sure if it was just one off hiccups and a bit of a swallow/suck session (his silent reflux mostly showed up like this). He's never been very sicky, mostly just if he's sat up right after a feed when I think his nappy can dig in to his tummy.
We've been lucky that he's never been very bad with reflux. He used to hiccup all the time, would often be visibly sick into his mouth and swallow back down with a grimace and shudder, and often smelled very acidic on his breath. He also would thrash, kick and sweat lots when feeding, and always had a cough/cold (cough and mucous) overnight but never in the daytime. He never really cried for no reason, or seemed in pain. He dropped from 75th to 50th %ile when the symptoms all started, at around 10 weeks. By 14 weeks his sleep had gone from 4 hours at a time to 1-2 hours.

There's a chance his wake ups are bad habit now, and the ranitidine was working. He's not had the obvious day time symptoms since being put on it, but when I'm holding him trying to get him to sleep after the early wake ups I can hear him gulping and swallowing so wonder if he is still suffering at night. I just want to rule it out before trying any kind of sleep training.

The plan is to give him omeprazole till peads appointment, if things aren't better then we'll try stopping all medication. If things are no worse, we'll keep him off it all. If things are worse, we'll obviously start him back on it. We'll then look at challenging him through me eating either eggs or dairy, see if that has an effect. Then the other one. By the end of it all we should know what's what.

The problem is stuff is changing all the time and all together. I've stopped dairy and eggs, introduced omeprazole, he's started solids and is growing older.

I do ok on that much sleep, mostly, because we're cosleeping and the wake ups are very short. He usually feeds back to sleep within 5-10 minutes, and I'm asleep before soon after. When I get overtired I get really angry at everything. I've started getting DH covering wake ups from 8-11 or so while I sleep.

This has turned into an essay. Sorry.

[MissMummy1]

The ignorance of some people never fails to astound me pass - good riddance to them.

Izzy I am defs up for meeting next week, although as with all Tuesdays would need to be away in time for work. I am also very poor this month due to DP's work situ and my lack of summer clients.

I have, however, won a vtech walker on eBay for £1.20 local pick up! Wahey, M loved the one at baby sensory last week.

Also, there are lots of chavvy people in the village tonight, for the biggest chav-tastic wedding ever. Drunk neds keep wandering down our street (to put this in perspective, our street leads to the sea, ie away from the pubs)

[YellowWellies]

Izzy bless you but no need love no need! I'm also blaming banana soreen, asda onion ring crisps and tescos mini pork and pickle pies for my previously steady weight loss grinding to a halt! But meh we need some treats! Pass has now inspired me to go and look for dairy free donuts

Stunt I feel your pain. Shit labeling or totally absent labels have become an additional topic in my ranting repertoire.

Pass I have some charming relatives like that on my norn irn side of my Mum's family. We don't keep in touch - especially as the English side of the family is nominally Catholic!

Tuesdays are normally busy for us (playgroup in the morn, then blether with my sis MM and her Mummy in the afternoon) but playgroup is on holiday this week and I'm sure my sister wouldn't mind me being AWOL this Tuesday. So am happy for a quiche meet. Would loooove to catch up. Let me know where and when - anywhere near a train station would suit us definitively my turn to travel.

[StuntNun]

Pass whether the doughnut did or not, the confectioners custard in it certainly will have had egg. J is very snotty and a little unsettled but I expect it will be tomorrow before we see any issues. Oh well, I hope it was worth it! It was delicious.

[YellowWellies]

Stacks cross post! I know what you mean its like playing cluedo trying to figure out reflux meds and cause and effect. Paed's advice is usually to challenge with traces rather than pure foods and to make changes no more frequently than once a fortnight so you can vaguely attempt to! figure out cause and effect. For diet changes it takes 3 weeks to leave your milk and up to another 3 weeks to leave their systems so there's still a bit of time before you're both clear. Also there might be some damage to his throat which'll take a bit of time to heal but as you say at this age he might also have learnt some bad associations so it could be behavioural too. Omeperazole is highly weight dependent and docs usually prescribe 2mg / kg per day but will go up to 3mg in extreme cases (which yours doesn't seem to be). Jonas was on 3mg / kg at his worst but it gave him awful wind - 2mg / kg works best for him.

[Passmethecrisps]

I see stunt. I wasn't thinking about custard donuts. Fingers crossed he is ok tomorrow.

Yeah. Bye bye horrid rellies. They are bundles of hate and have really upset my sister.

[YellowWellies]

Krispy kreme is full of dairy and eggs. Boo

[Stacks]

T was weighed 3 weeks ago at 17lb (7.36 kg??), doc yesterday said "he's probably about 10kg now right? Give him about half a tablet". So, that's our dose.

[Passmethecrisps]

for you stacks

My P is 7Kg and is on very loosely 1 tablet a day dissolved in 10ml water. I say loosely as I give her it in a bottle mixed with tiny bit of milk. A fair amount gets lost this way but she seems very happy on this amount.

[TheDetective]

Evening!

Phew it's hot!

And I've just had chilis in my dinner. Idiot! Sat here in a puddle.

I have an additional child here tonight great just what I wanted! as DP's sister begged him to step in after being let down. He's a good kid, but I feel bad because there isn't much for him to do here other than play xbox or watch TV, as DS1 got rid of all his toys, and he's too young for the games and things we have.

We just had a mosey round town today, and took O to the park. Was a nice afternoon. :)

Loving this weather, but UK heat is shit. Love the heat when abroad, as it is dry, not humid, and all together much more pleasant!

[Passmethecrisps]

Oh and my doc seems to default on mg per kg. he gave me a max to go up to of my own volition and then another max with his advice.

[Passmethecrisps]

det are you still needing the ranitidine calculation?

[TheDetective]

YW I get so irate at shit labeling.

As O is dairy free, and me and DP are doing SW, we are now avid label checkers. We suddenly know a whole lot more about what goes in our food since. Really opened our eyes to things. Best thing I have ever done is do SW, as it has helped me in getting things right for O.

Still going, lost 24lb now. Saying that, I'm going to put on a hell of a lot on Thursday! DP's birthday, so we are going out for the full day to Manchester, and we are eating ourselves silly for the day!! I can't bloody wait! I AM having a Krispy Kreme donut, Hersheys cookies and cream bar, Chiquitos nacho's, and whatever else I can lay my hands on! Although given my appetite is reduced, I'm not sure what I'll fit in, but I'm giving it my best shot! Am looking forward to cake the most!