Still brooking no argument for sleep, glorious sleep!

[Stacks]

This will be the thread where all brooking babies learn to self settle and sleep through the night (the real version, not that 5hr at a time thing).

Oh Stacks you poor thing that sounds awful :( I have no experience of allergies in children or changing my diet to help but I really hope something works and you get some answers soon and T settles better for you.

On other news, if you would like to pop over to the grads thread, there is a new post grad

stacks my DD was like this . I completely sympathise and if I can help I will. Getting everything diagnosed was a challenge but once sorted it got so so much better so quickly.

Some good news here, DS has started to do short bursts of sleep himself the last two nights between an hour to an hour and a half. This is huge for me as I usually have a to sit holding him 7-10pm before I go to bed (we co sleep). So I really feel like I am getting a bot of an evening. DH works away during the week so it's really great as otherwise I am a bit stuck if indeed a wee/drink.

smegs I agree, self settling?! I have to stealth retreat..........

Coffee anyone?!

smegs - you are taking me back. I had a new theory and plan of action every day! Kept me sane if nothing else :)

Omeprazole really helped with the screaming (so it was silent reflux) but did not help with the sleeping. At 6 months she could sit unaided and we weaned at 22 weeks and reflux got loads better and I stopped the medication around then. Sleeping didnt get better until I ditched the breastfeeding just before 9 months...

DD1 was a happy chucker but slept through from 14 weeks and was happy and unclingy. Totally different experience!

Woo! Welcome Sparks, and congratulations. How are you feeling? I should go read back on t'other thread for news. We're here for advice and support whenever you need it.

stacks there is no 'test' for intolerance, its just done by exclusion. You need to cut out all dairy, soya and egg for 4 weeks. Dietician told me 2 weeks not long enough. Then challenge with the same amount, eg half a petit filous (or that sized yoghurt). An intolerance reaction can be anything fro 4 hrs to 3 days post exposure, so you do the same after 3 days if he's ok. Do that 3 times, so 9 days total iykwim. Then go to a full petit filous. Wait 3 days and repeat cycle. If he reacts to dairy, then wait til he's ok, then challenge with soya in same way. How old is T? You sound exactly like me in what you think and how he is. Exactly like S. I'm sure now, we've seen paeds and dietetics, they're in agreement. ranitidine was already maximum. Paeds today whacked up his domperidone dose to maximum. They said no point doing low doses for reflux as it needs to go to stop texture aversions, feeding issues, pain and to improve sleep. How old is T now? (Sorry, I forget).

Anyway, I have phone and mn ishoos so I'll post before I lose this, just been on the fb page for another look at lovely twinks and for sleep help. I'm broken. S is un-sleep-trainable.

Welcome sparks! Congratulations again.

I thought this new thread was the one where the babies sleep? Still not great here either. Think I was up 6 times, but one of those was for DD. I did manage to settle him once without feeding though! Will try to post later, hate typing on phone.

Big welcome to sparks!
Wish I could help on the sleep front dream it is a tough one. Really hope the new doses of meds make a difference.
stacks It's so hard to know what's wrong isn't it? I still don't really "know" what each of T's crys mean so I just try and work through the list of what they could be! And then I worry once I've exhausted that list that his reflux may be causing pain! It's so hard! Before you know it though they'll be able to tell us and start milking it like DS 1
T has gone to pot at nights (4 month sleep regression??) He spends hours practising rolling over in his cot (and grinning!) Daytime naps are even shorter too (20 mins maybe? ?) DS1 still night waking too and today I had my 2 year old nephew all day as well - I'm like a zombie now!

My doctor was useless about allergies. Said to keep eating milk and eggs, to feed them to DS, and to wait until our scheduled reflux appointment at the end of the month and ask their advice. Also that dietician appointments are like gold dust, and cmpi is a "fashionable diagnosis" just now (in a tone implying she thinks its boo locks (hehe, iPhone won't swear) she also said "breastmilk has lactose in" so me cutting out dairy wouldn't help.

I'm thinking its not advice I should follow? I'm particularly worried at the suggestion I keep giving DS milk and eggs. I'm scared to try exposing him again, though DH thinks as she's a doctor she knows what she's talking about so we should do it.

Olives the 4 month sleep regression is a killer and still going strong at 6 months. Just remember, this too shall pass. T is actually quite a happy baby mostly, so I do wonder how bad his reflux can be, and whether dairy in my milk is causing him problems. It's just the audible gulping and occasional acid smelling sick that makes me think he's still suffering. That and the lack of sleep. He woke last night with real pain type crying, and was obviously trying to get back to sleep but couldn't. I feed him so much from around 3/4am onwards, I think this is his bad time for reflux.

Gen congrats on settling without feeding! I hope he gets the hang of it and starts settling easier soon. Wishing you good sleep tonight.

Dream thanks for the info. Shame it's so different from what the dr suggested. I think a dietician may give better advice, but sounds like it could be months before I see one. I think I'm going to go ahead with a food diary for me and DS, and cut out milk and eggs. He seemed ok after eating some soy yoghurt, so I'm hoping that's not an issue. DH really wants to try and expose him again I think. Get a definitive reaction to the specific foods, rather than to unknown margarine/butter and mayo. Could be eggs/milk, could be E numbers or whatever.

Bath time nearly over. I'll post later and checkout Facebook.

Cross posts with gen, we need to brook harder for this elusive sleep!
I think I should add that T doesn't just grin when rolling in the night, he also protests loudly when he gets wedged at the side of the cot!!

Cross posts with stacks now too! Sorry doc was no help - fashionable diagnosis indeed!
Also meant to say that DHs grandma has been ill over the last 2 weeks and it turns out her breast cancer of 5 years ago has now spread to bones, lungs and kidney She's usually such a lovely vibrant young looking 78 year old and seemingly overnight she has become a terminally ill very old looking woman DS1 adores her and she's asked to see him so we're taking him in to hospital to see her on Weds. I'm so worried about it though as I'm not sure it will help his current anxieties and nightmares to see his great grandma looking so poorly but equally I don't want him not to see her before the worst happens iyswim? Any advice?

stacks my dh is a GP. It's not their specialist area, I think a GP's job, having to answer queries about every single health problem under the sun must be a blimmin nightmare. If you keep randomly giving dairy you will not know. I will photocopy my dietician leaflet if you like and post? At least you'll know it not total twaddle hopefully . if you give the 4 weeks off then challenge, you know for sure. S perfectly happy when up and about in the day, lies flat no issues. Reflux often worse at night. Allergies and intolerances are increasingly common. Hence why studies like the EAT study are looking at weaning at 3 months as previously to tackle this, potentially. My dietician said if b can tolerate small amounts give them to him, so he has the odd chocolate button etc.

Sorry, got to dash, back later

Dream I know GPs have it hard with so many different areas of medicine to cover, I always try and give them the respect they're due. Unfortunately I sometimes feel quite let down by their advice. Like this time... from what I understand of allergies a first reaction can be mild, a second one deadly. It feels like overreacting to worry, but it's possible T could have a bad reaction to his next exposure to egg, right?
The Dr was honest with me and said she didn't know much about it, and so didn't want to give advice. Then went ahead and gave me what I think could be bad or even dangerous advice.

I got a book out of the library on allergies, and looked at the Allergy UK website. They both say not to self diagnose allergies (which is essentially what I've done) but also to be careful about re-exposure until he's been tested. So I'm going to go ahead with the exclusion diet for me and T until I see the peads consultant at the end of the month. A month without dairy shouldn't cause issues for T and his diet. I think... I just wish I felt better informed.

I feel like I'm being dramatic. Maybe the Dr is right and I'm just being all pfb.

I hate posting on my phone, but it makes me a bad Brooker!

Olives no advice about children visiting sick relatives. Sorry. I don't have any experience with kids that age, or being a kid that age in that position. Really sorry to hear your GMIL is so ill. I hate cancer obvious much? it's just so devastating for all concerned. I hope your DH and family are ok. T sounds very cute in his nighttime antics, even if it is upsetting his sleep. My T still isn't mobile at all, though I'm kind of looking forward to it.

Gen have you had any success settling without feeding? I hope sleep is better now. I'm still having some success with putting T in his cot, it's all just happened spontaneously recently. I don't think there's much I could have done to rush it. I'm sure it'll come together for you soon.

Dream T is 6.5m now. He's on max dose of ranitidine and domperidone, we've been kind of offered omeprazole to try, though no prescription yet. Peads wants me to try the new weight adjusted doses for 2 weeks before changing to omeprazole. He's doing quite well with reflux through the day, but overnight is really bad from about 2am onwards. I'm managing to feed then settle him from about 8-11/12 but then he wakes up more distressed, I can hear him gulping, and his breath smells acidic. Feeding him then seems like temporary relief, and he keeps waking for more milk every hour or so.

How are you doing Sparks? Enjoying baby snuggles?

Pomme glad to hear sleeping can improve :) do you think omeprazole is better than ranitidine? T is weaning but not eating much. BLW seems very slow compared to PLW and puréed food. Still, T seems happy feeding himself.

Munxx hope the sleeping in the evenings is still improving? The last 3 nights have been my first evenings in 6 months. It's been really nice, if a little surreal. I've been handling the evenings differently though - I was going to bed by 7pm with the laptop and films/tv with DH bringing me drinks/snacks.

Boo has the soreness gone? Did you manage to find shells?

Smegs I've been trying to make bread regularly too. I might manage it now I'm getting some time in the evenings. How is DD doing now? Enjoying weaning still?

This will be short as I'm on phone putting e to bed.

Stacks, no joy yet, last night he was up several times again, but seems to have a cold, so prob needed comfort or milk. I did settle him once in the evening without feeding andmay try tonight again. Hope T keeps improving.

Olives, my grandad died recently and DD seemed quite upset about it. it was her first experience of death and she has asked loads of questions. I'm trying to be matter. of fact and honest with her as FIL is still ill of course, so I'm gently preparing her for that. I just wanted to warn you that it might upset him, but then death is a part of life and kids are very accepting of simple explanations. I hope you and DHs family are ok.

Dream I think this suggests I shouldn't do an elimination diet, and wait for an appointment with a dietician:

"NICE CG116 recommends the use of trial elimination of the suspected allergen for children and young people with suspected non-IgE-mediated food allergy. The risk of conversion to IgE-mediated allergy on reintroduction of cow?s milk in some children with FPIES demonstrates the importance of the NICE CG116 recommendation for primary and community healthcare professionals to seek advice from a dietitian with appropriate competencies when commencing an elimination diet. The evidence from Katz et al. (2011) also suggests that conducting allergy tests for IgE-mediated allergy after long-term food exclusion in non-IgE-mediated reactions, to minimise the risk of subsequent IgE-mediated reactions, may be a consideration for future guidance reviews."

So I think I'm going to stay dairy reduced, but not free. I'm still not comfortable giving ds milk and eggs directly though. I'll wait to talk to peads before I try him again. Maybe I could take some with us and give it in front of her, then she could see the rash herself (and deal with any dangerous consequences).

Olives, sorry to hear about DH's grandma - I hope you're all doing ok. I'm afraid I have no advice though

Stacks, I read all about T's reaction and then forgot to post, sorry. Was it around the mouth? (brain gone to mush, can't remember, sorry!). If so, could it be some kind of fruit? Iz gets a temporary red rashy reaction around her mouth when she eats certain types of fruit - apples and strawberries are two culprits. DH gets irritated by those too.. possibly something like pectin in them? Apparently it's very common for babies to have that kind of reaction. Some parents would then cut out the offending fruit completely. With my family history of lactose intolerance and knowledge of how much worse it can get if you do cut it out entirely, I've still given her bits of offending fruits, just in smaller portions, with lots of other things and with lots of water. Sorry if this is an avenue you've already investigated but just thought I'd mention it!

Sorry not to name check everyone else- on phone and can't read back. In the middle of a completely mad week, but will hopefully be around more when it's over...

Hi musical hope you're well? How's things? Brooking you're having a good "mad" week and not a trying one.

T did get the reaction round the mouth, yes. Red itchy lumps. It was specifically from the bread and butter, and tuna mayo sandwich - only foods given at the meal. He's been eating bread happily for weeks, and had the same tuna the day before with no reaction. He's had strawberries and is fine with them.

I'm wavering yet again on my dairy decisions. Could be due to the particularly bad night we just had. :(

I'm good thanks Stacks. A good mad week (apart from the cold!). My choir sung with a famous boy band yesterday (have so outed myself on here now!) and I have a big interview tomorrow that I currently should be swatting up for...

Eek, doesn't sound good re T's rash. Have you been keeping a food diary for him - food he's been having and any reactions of any sort? If nothing else it might help you with your decisions, and be good ammo for the gp/dietician? You might already be doing it mind, and I've just forgotten... sorry

stacks, we did complete exclusion for months with b and v v v minimal now. S has just seen paeds, to exclude dairy. You re challenge every 2-3 months. The vast majority are fine with dairy by 3, almost all by age 5. That's what the dietician told me for B. He did say if he can tolerate small amounts then give it, but he is the milder reaction. He gets eczema with dairy but no immediate reaction. My friend who is a Dr herself had a dd with egg, banana and mango allergies. She took her to a&e once as her mouth and lips and tongue started swelling. She said as soon as they were through the doors, she started improving mind, as they do :) She was referred and saw an immunologist. He said not to exclude from her own diet just her dd's, which would def not have worked for me as mine weren't on solids at all and were reacting. I wouldn't worry too much. One month will do nothing at all to T but may make things clearer about what is going on. He will get all calcium needed through your milk. If you do go dairy free yourself you need to take calcium and vit d supplement yourself,

Rubbish, he's awake, sorry gotta dash

Interesting about the rashes. E2 gets a rash around the mouth with strawberries - at least she used to, she rejects them now. She loves kiwis though and doesn't react to them, which is weird because I thought there was a link between the two? Or am I thinking of something else, like pineapple? She also gets a rash with tomatoes but I think that's a) because of the acid and b) because she likes to mash them into her face to get maximum enjoyment

She doesn't have any immediate kind of reaction to dairy though. I wonder if it's worth doing a proper elimination test thing?

Anyone else feel like giving up bfing, even though it's going well? I just need some sleep last night I got about 3 hours, all broken up into little chunks, and I'm barely functioning today. Admittedly part of that was the neighbours car alarm going off repeatedly between 2am and 4am and them not bothering to check on it knobbers At least if I ff (and she took a bottle!) I could get the occasional good nights sleep.

A gets a rash too. Bad when teething but does seem to link to certain foods. Her italian nursery are sure its cheese, but she doesnt get it after her morning or nighttime bottle of cows milk.

Dummies rule still in our house. How will I get dd1 to give hers up?!

I am also crazy tired for no apparent reason. Less hormonal and less self hatred going on though which is good.

Brooking for maximum sleep!!

Dream thanks. I've talked it over with DH and we're going dairy free till our dr appointment. I take bf vitamins with everything added, so I should be fine. How's the sleep training going? Have things improved at all?

Smegs glad bf is going well, but yes, sometimes I consider giving it up too, or at least mix feeding. Tiredness is a killer. Last night I finally broke, handed DH a screaming T and went upstairs and cried under the duvet. I've had so little sleep for the last 6 months and last night was just too much. Maybe it's a new recipe for success though, as he slept 1-6 then! First time in months he's done 5 hours. I didn't sleep quite as well, as he was in our bed and kept thrashing about. Still, 5 hours!

Pomme why does patenting cone with hormones, self hatred and lack of sleep? It's like the triad of doom. Glad you're doing a bit better on 2/3.

Smegs, I think about giving up BFing, well actually about mixed feeding. I have to because I'm going to work some days next month and back full time in September. It's also hard work feeding a wriggly, nosy boy, plus I would love to get more sleep and let DH deal with wakings sometimes. However, I just haven't got round to it. I was planning to use a beaker, rather than a bottle and have been making up formula every now and again. I use it instead of EBM to mix with baby rice etc as I found expressing hard to fit into the day, plus I thought I'd get him used to the taste of formula, but I just haven't been tough enough to resist BFing. I really need to do it and part of me wants to, but part of me doesn't as he's my last baby and it seems like a big deal to phase it out.

Does anyone have any input re this? Is it possible to continue to BFeed, but just feed him morning and night (and in the day when I am around)? Does he have to have formula? And if I do this, will I get exploding bosoms at work? I still leak every day and feel that full/engorged feeling most days, but maybe that wouldn't happen if I wasn't around him. What do you think?

Stacks, it can't do any harm to exclude for now, and may shed some light on the situation. Hope it works for you and hooray re last night's sleep! I feel a bit like that too, still up at least 2-3 times every night, usually more like 3-4 and it gets so tiring! I keep hoping things will improve now he is eating so well. I think he just wakes out of habit, but he does feed each time and I don't want to deny him if he's really hungry, plus it's easy to just feed him back to sleep rather than try rocking etc and find that he doesn't settle. Vicious circle!

Pomme have you tried the whole 'Father Christmas needs your dummy back to give to a baby and in return you will get a small present for being a big girl' thing? Really hope you are feeling well and glad to hear the hormones are settling.

Dream, how is the sleep training going? Any joy?

Musical that sounds mega exciting! I am a teenager at heart!

Olives, how are things and have you visited DH's grandma? Hope you are all OK.

DH's dad seems a bit better. He has got out of the depression at least and physically is coping better with the treatment. He is awaiting results of a CT scan to see if the tumour has shrunk and we all hope it has. The treatment he's having won't cure him, we know that, but it would be wonderful to get some more time together.

Hope everyone has a lovely weekend planned, enjoying the sunshine.

Ahem. By my silence on the subject I thought you may all have realised sleep training has failed . Well, at !5 months I have finally managed to drop the 9pm feed and 11pm feed but still several feeds and co sleeping from midnight. I know i need a big push to continue the night weaning, but it hasn't affected the evening/ before midnight wakings at all, so I'm having a break and enjoying one or two less feeds a night...

generic I feed b morning, evening, once in the night if he wakes, and if I'm there in the day, once in the morning before his nap. Works for him. Sadly, s still insists on loads of milk... I'd quite like to have a plan for stopping now though. I've got to 15 months, which is what I did for dd, so what i was aiming for. I do also wonder if total night weaning would help the night wakings... Glad your dh's dad is doing a bit better. I hope you do get some extra time with him.