Post-grad Brookers, over here! We will Brook No Argument that all Mini-Brookers sleep 12 hours a night and behave angelically during the day

[TooImmatureTurtleDoves]

Over here!

blood test is a week on Friday! (Thanks for asking) If you're an adult needing a blood test in our area there are various clinics as well as the hospital where you can just wander in when you like and have a blood test. If you're a child needing a blood test it has to be via an appointment at the childrens's hospital who I phoned first thing this morning. Unless we go via A&E we've got to wait until then. He doesn't need to go to A&E, he doesn't even appear ill. But it's obviously a worry that this particular gland behind his ear is swollen and he has these horrible spots all over his scalp. He has started coughing today so I'm hoping it is just some sort of minor cough type virus

Good name change Wants

Too re naps. At your DD's age DS was having 3 naps a day. About 10am for 30 mins, about 12-1pm for 2-3 hours and about 5pm for 30 mins. The first one he dropped was the last one at around 10 months. He dropped the first one around 1 year and the bigger middle one he's just starting to drop now. Although it is now usually 1/2pm and reduced to 1-2 hours and no longer has one every day. That's worked perfectly for us and we've never had any night waking problems.

DD is starting to set her own routine but is only having 2 daytime naps. A shorter morning one around 10am and a long one in the afternoon, 1pm til about 4.30pm. She has been upstairs in bed from 6.30/7ish, wakes for 1 feed at 10pm and that's it until about 8am the next morning. This has been for the last week or so. Her waking time is spent smiling, chuckling, exercising on the floor and being generally happy which is lovely. The real shock though is that I put her to bed wide awake and gurgling and she falls asleep without crying within a couple of minutes

As we know from everything else we discuss on here, they're all different. We all have different priorities also. I've only been able to get DD to do this by giving her formula feeds in the day which I know is something you don't want for your DD. I don't feel great about DD not being EBF and getting a routine was not the reason for me changing to mixed feeding. But she is now gaining weight and looks much healthier for it which is the reason. The fact that our family life has become more enjoyable and manageable is an aside.

Enjoy your evening out Scream

By the way, Scarlet, at the children's hospital the rule is, or should be, that a nurse gets 3 goes to get blood and if it doesn't work then she has to hand over to someone more senior. However, you can request the senior person in the first place and they have to do as you say. I found this out after bitching to the community MW about the butchers trying to get blood from M for jaundice tests at about 5 days old. So if you like, you can go in and say 'I want the most senior person available to take this blood sample'.

Thank you for the nap chat - today we had 30 mins napping in the afternoon followed by another 30 mins half napping, half feeding on me. She's already been up twice for short to-ups, though, so we'll see! I suppose I have to test the nap theory for a few days before deciding if it works or not.

DH is shouting for me - gotta go.

Lying here with a who woke at half nine and has been blowing raspberries and laughing at my feet since then. Very cute. I would like some sleep though...

Thanks for that Too. I'm sure if it's bodged after the first attempt, DS will be quite vocal about making sure it's done properly on the second go! I'll make a judgement about whether to ask for someone senior or not when I see who's doing it

at your DD Pomme. Very cute.

Pomme that sounds so cute . Hope she let you get some sleep though .

Like the sounds of those ring things. I managed to get something like this for £5 off of Gumtree which I hope might help ds2 with the hard wooden floor immediate issue. Going to pick it up at the weekend so we'll see how it goes.....

Scarlet how rubbish about the blood test! I suppose maybe it is a bit reassuring that they don't immediately think he needs to follow 'emergency protocols' but still, over a week to have the blood taken is a bit poor . At least if you feel more worried about it at any time you could take him to A&E? Hope that isn't necessary though and that he is on the mend. It doesn't sound quite right to say I hope he has a cough virus but you know what I mean - I hope that's what's causing the problem and he's able to beat it into submission and get all better again xxx all round for the Scarlet household xxx

Nap wise, I'm trying to remember what ds1 did. I think when he was this sort of age he probably had two decent length naps, one kid morning, one early afternoon?? I'm struggling to remember tbh. I know he was down to one nap at just about 1 year when I went back to work and when he was at nursery and that that was often a long nap (sometimes 3-4 (or more!) hours).

DS2 is a lot more hit and miss with naps. I would say that 50-75% of the time he'll have a good nap starting about lunchtime. So eg yesterday he napped about 1:30/2:00 - 5:00 ish (I was a bit that it lasted so long but every time I checked he just looked completely peacefully asleep!). Perhaps 25% of the time he'll have a nap straight after his first feed in the majoring until say 9:30. Sometimes this nap is on the same day as a good afternoon nap, sometimes not. Other days he barely seems to nap at all and may have a couple of cat naps in the car if we've been out, or 15 mins here and there in a bouncy chair. Mostly his awake time is happy and playing. He may get a little crotchety on a low-nap day, but only towards tea time usually.

I've been a bit naughty that I don't often 'put him down' for a nap. I sometimes spot that he looks tired and put him down, say after a feed, either awake or asleep. Sometimes I find he's fallen asleep (perhaps in the car) and I manage to transfer him to the cot. Sometimes I can't execute the transfer though and wake him up. And sometimes I just leave him where he's fallen asleep, like his bouncy chair or whatever.

Oh, but if I put him down at night awake, he can drop off to sleep himself quite happily. V occasionally he'll do it for naps too but not so much. I think it's because i can't judge his pattern though so I'm sometimes trying to put him down and he just doesn't want a nap because if he cries when I've put him down (I go back and pick him up), he doesn't then go to sleep in the immediate future iyswim. So I think he's saying 'no nap thanks'.

Golly, what a ramble! Hope you're all well and had a good night xxx

I had a rubbish night but kind of better in that at least I kept putting S back in his cot. Still woke every 90 min after midnight though. B up once too. Yuck. I've got the eye twitching with tiredness thing going on already and its only 8am. Dh keeps talking about cc, the very thought makes me want to cry, even though S is not improving...

Anyway, naps. Usually go for 3 here. If they're up 5:30-7 ish, I go for a 9-9:30 ish nap. Sometimes one or both will sleep for 2-3 hours then, sometimes its 30 min. Then lunchtime, then late afternoon. Same thing for lengths- majorly variable. All pushed in the buggy or driven. Unless we are in, then B will have a cot nap in the morning (fed to sleep), but sometimes that fails so buggy it is, but if S needs a nap too, and we get the buggy out, he can't get put down. And i know, I know, 10,000,000 nap sins there but i don't have time to work on it with DD too, even when other people are here it just doesn't seem practical ??? They never, ever 'just drop off' anywhere other than buggy or car though.

Dream I don't know if I've mentioned this before but you're amazing! you sound like you have the nap thing seen up. I can't allow you to call it nap-sins! You have three children to get to sleep across the day - that's a mighty task as inevitably they might not want to sleep at the same time. You're awesome. And yay for getting S to go back in the cot between each map. That's awesome and sounds like real progress to me. If he'll settle once in the cot when he goes down then it's feasible that at some point he might learn to self settle when he wakes up.

I'm so proud of you for what you're achieving. In fact can I swap you for my DH? I'm so with him.

We are on holiday in a few weeks. For 4 nights. That's it this year: 4 night's / 5 days. DH has just told me he has to go to a meeting on one of the afternoons! I am furious with him.

We have concluded, during a thoroughly reasonable and calm discussion that it's his fault and he is, in fact, an idiot. And he needs to make this up to me. What should my demands be? I have a very high threshold for his work (if I say so myself) and it is rare for me to throw my toys out of the pram over it. But this takes the flipping biscuit. So how can he make it up to me?

Answers on a postcard....

((((Hugs)))) Biscuits. That is shit isn't it. How can he make it up to you? Let's think.... Re arrange the f888ing meeting! I would be going seriously loopy over that. Can he not just say that he's on holiday, as in actually on holiday ie not at home, physically away etc? DH had to cancel one of his days off for a meeting which I went postal over but we weren't actually away so I had to concede. I've already made him swear that the same thing won't happen when we go away (to the same place as you) in October.
I bet he was absolutely dreading telling you and he must feel shit about it? Get DS to ask him not to go Emotional blackmail at it's best!

If that fails the very least you deserve is a new baby carrier of your choice, (are you after an Ergo still?) As you'll be managing both DS's on your own and won't want to be stuck in with them both waiting for DH to return? A carrier will be essential

Dh has got his first proper (ie not for going to other people's blasted weddings) time off since A was born coming up in a weeks time - he has two weeks off and we're going to Italy for one of them. I cannot WAIT and he would feel the full force of my wrath if he announced any of the shenanigans your dh has biscuits!

Surely some kind of spa day at one weekend when he can have the boys??? You can get good offers normally (groupon etc??). A beautiful and impractical pair of shoes/handbag? When ds2 has stopped bf he takes you (in a taxi) to the swankiest restaurant near you and you get to eat great food and drink posh wine??

I was weaker than you last night dream - A did much the same pattern as S as she woke every 2 hours for half an hour from one but I had her with me from 3. She was on her front at the 5am wake up almost underneath my pillow. Bloody co sleeping. I hate it.

At this age I know dd1 napped at 9 and 1 for 60-90 mins each nap and then slept through 7-7 at night. I thought last week A was getting nearer that (but getting tired at 5-5.30 so having to string her on to 6-6.30 bedtime) but now she's back to three crappy silly naps.

This morning however she'd been whining/wailing/wanting to feed/refusing the breast since 8.20. So at 8.50 I put her in her cot and pottered around her room singing at her whilst folding washing etc pretending she wasn't getting hyseterical. i also left the room for 2 two min periods. By 9am she was asleep and it wasnt when I was in the room. That's self settling right? But I am obviously a horrible mummy. I don't think that's total CC though is it???

scarlet - love the getting the child to ask trick - genius! How is your ds this am? Like biscuits although it sounds wrong brooking he's all a bit virusy to put your mind at rest.

My name is wants and I have committed a nap-sin! D is currently napping on me after being rocked to sleep! :) to be fair though, his crib is under polythene as the plasterers are here again and his pram is in the garage because with all the furniture moving around there is no room for it indoors. Am I forgiven?
Grrr at biscuits DH! There is nothing he can do to make it up to you,he will be in your debt forever!:)

He still seems ok thanks Pomme. The gland is still just as swollen and he won't let me touch it, he says "get off it hurts". But apart from that he seems fine. It's a weird one. I guess the blood test referral is just for precaution and I will take him along to it anyway even if the gland has gone down by then. He's been having his anti-b's no problem so I shall make sure he finishes the course now it's started.

Love the spa day idea Pomme. wonders if I can get DH to piss me off so I can join Biscuits at the spa. Biscuits you can have 3 hours on your own at the spa on holiday. I've done it before, it's lovely

I tried telling him to rearrange the f888ing meeting Scarlet but 'apparently' it cannot be done

I like the idea that he will be forever in my debt.

It will be interesting to see what he thinks he should do to make up for it....

What a flipping numpty he is

What if you were abroad Biscuits? Would he be flying home for it? When I asked DH that recently about his cancelled holiday he said no of course not. So I said if you are able to say no then, why the hell didn't you? and

Yes, exactly Scarlet That is JUST what I said to him. But apparently he would still need to dial in for it (I was hoping it would be re-arrangeable or someone else could go) and then things never go as well, and it isn't far from where we are and him phoning in is nearly as inconvenient as it'll be for a few hours.

Gah!

Will he be able to make it clear that he has to be away from the meeting by a certain time and point out to whoever involved that he has actually left his holiday for it? If your DH is anything like mine, he says he will definitely be away by such and such a time and then rings me an hour after that time and says that he's still in the meeting and it's going to be another hour or so. I have visions of you sitting in your holiday accomodation like this and with

It's his own stupid fault for not putting the meeting dates in his diary knobhead. But yes, he is the master of saying 'I'll be another 30 mins' and the 2 hours later he's still there. Mostly I have learned to accept it because mostly I'm only doing something as exciting as watching tv at home but the whole holiday thing makes me . I am half expecting too that the night before he'll just want to read a few papers to prepare. I mean his bloody work creeps into nearly every holiday. I shouldn't be surprised! It's just normally he ends up doing emails / reviewing work on his laptop. And every time I stupidly hope it won't happen again.

Biscuits

I started a thread in Children's Health here a couple of hours ago as I think I may be connecting some symptoms together to establish the cause of DS's swollen gland, but so far no one has replied I realise it's a very boring subject if it's not happening to your child, but I was hoping someone would see it and be able to tell me if I'm barking up the wrong tree or not.

I'm a terrible terrible worrier, I wish I could relax about such things.

I like the spa or carrier idea biscuits. I'd be really, really cross too. Definitely get him to tell people he has left his family holiday and will be leaving at X o'clock. Nothing like a deadline to keep things moving. Otherwise I reckon he would end up doing the 'I'll just be another hour' thing...

pomme, I only kept putting him back because like you I found S half onto his front,with his arm stuck under him at a horrible angle as I'd rolled away from him onto my back again. I'm too tired for co sleeping, its not safe for me. And 10 minutes is highly acceptable, if he'd cry for 10 min and self settle that's a winner in my book, and far more productive than continually using the buggy or car as a sleep device. Mine have got left that long as I get the other ready etc/ finish feeding/ changing someone and are just escalating after 10 min. . Quite frequently my whole system goes to pot anyway and the boys get by on, for example, 3 lots of 10-20 minutes sleep.

I'm just sat in the car after an abandoned trip out with all three asleep. Dh and I too bloody tired to carry ob and DD being so stroppy the last 2 days. She's teething, two top teeth, canines I think, have just started breaking through her gums. I'm feeling a bit rough, headache and sore throat, so maybe she is too. Either way, not a success...

Also, I'm so far from amazing It's untrue... The boys get almost no 1:1, and not enough floor time, let alone tummy time. Neither is rolling (21 weeks yesterday). Can I ask you sahm's, did you/ would you put your eldest in nursery while you were off?? The children centre lady, as have others including my mum, keep saying we should put DD in nursery, for a morning or day a week. My reasons to not are that she's still pre-verbal, only has about 5-10 words, but we understand loads as she signs, so she wouldn't be understood at nursery like at home, plus I'm at home, plus we are paying a cleaner and i have lots of help at home and it'll cost £££. People tell me it'll be good for her (I agree some time away from her mummy will be good, she will definitely go at 3, or possibly 2.5 depending on our cash flow) but not now, not really I don't think. I make a big effort to get her to playgroups etc to give her time with other toddlers. We go to playgrounds, we have re started taking her swimming, we go for walks (limited now with the boys), she has lots of days out/ experiences. So if I send her it's for me really, not for her I think. What would you do??

i think a couple of short morning sessions, or just one might be good for both of you dream. She'd be fine if shes used to playgroup (and if shes not fine just stop doing it). it would help you with the one on one time with the dts.

Maybe make your pre requisite that someone there knows signing - i wouldnt have thought that would be too great a challenge as its popular now with young children?

I've just put together my childcare plan until dec together as will be doing some work from Oct and have got dd1 sorted for Italy. dd2 i want a morning nanny type and its going to have to be dh that chooses her as he will be able to get out there to meet her and i won't.

Im finding that scary although thats probably horribly unfair. ive just done all the childcare choices around here up till now!

sorry - last post. since ive been on mat leave dd1 has been in nursery a day a week and its been a godsend. Kept us all sane at various points i reckon. and i only have one (who is currently absailing on my hair hence the typing).

So what is your childcare plan until Dec, Pomme? I'm sure your DH will manage to find a lovely nanny, but if you don't like her it's not a permanent arrangement - you can always get someone else if you need to.

Dream, quite honestly in your shoes I would have tried to find the cash to put DD into nursery a couple of mornings/days a week, just so you get some time where you only have the DTs to deal with. I'm sure in a nursery they will be quite used to communicating with children at all different speech levels, so don't worry about that. Children are quite good at making you understand their wants even if it's not in words - pointing and facial expressions go a long way. When I have another baby which I spend a ridiculous amount of time thinking about I hope I can afford to put M in a nursery part-time. It might not be the nursery she's going to be in while I'm back at work, though, because that one I'd need a car to get to. There's a nursery in the village that takes children of 2 and over and I could walk her down to that a couple of mornings a week. Anyway, reading your post you spend a lot of time going to playgrounds and things where you have to play with DD and look after the DTs. If DD went to a nursery they would spend all morning playing with her and generally making sure she took part in stimulating activities, so you would be quite justified in having a quiet afternoon in. What I'm trying to say, badly, is that a playgroup might lift some of your worries about DD not getting enough stimulation/interaction with other kids etc, without you personally having to create the activity/supervise her in playgroups etc.

Biscuits, boo to your DH! The trouble with meetings is that they do go on, and it can be hard to stand up and say 'I have to go now', particularly if important things haven't been covered yet. I have made DH wait for me outside work for an hour on occasion. I have also seen people come in on their day off for 'just one meeting' and they wind up getting dragged into things. It is easier to Just Say No than it is to go to work for a short period only. What if he was ill? He wouldn't be able to attend the meeting then and it would just have to happen without him. No one is indispensable. Or can't the meeting be rescheduled if it is so important that he be there?

Biscuits I totally sympathise with your anger over DH's meeting. I hope he manages to keep it short. I'm glad I work in education, where it's accepted that people have a personal life and meetings are scheduled for times that suit everyone present. (I guess the public sector generally is more like this.) I hate the attitude in many companies that you're paid lots of money so you can be contacted and expected to work at any time. It's as if they think that work is more important than life. But I also feel sorry for your DH - I don't suppose he wants to work during your holiday either. :(

Too re naps, I put DS down when he gets whimpery, usually a couple of hours after he's woken up and fed. He often only sleeps for 40 mins though. I'm not sure how many naps he has - two or three, I think. If he sleeps for longer at night (eg feeds at 5.30am then goes straight back to sleep till 7.45 or later) he will nap less. If a nap is interrupted (eg he falls asleep in the car and then the journey ends) after 15 mins he won't generally go back to sleep - for him it will be like he's had a full nap. He does doze on the boob quite often though. Maybe if I didn't let him do that he'd have a longer nap in his cot?

Dream I think, if you can, it would be a good idea to put DD in a nursery even just for one morning a week, for the same reasons the others have given. She would enjoy it, I'm sure, and you would feel better about having a bit more time for the DTs (even if it just means cuddling S while B has a good nap in his cot!). Even if you feel it would be for you, not her, I would still do it (if you can afford to) because you are a family and your needs (and the needs of the whole family) are important too.