April 2012 newborns: the insomnia continues...

[LaTristesse]

Hello fellow April mums. Following on from our lovely ante-natal threads, here's the first of the post-natal ones. Join us as we work out how to handle nappies, feeding, colic, crying and all things newborn, or just to celebrate the joys of a new baby!

Loving the Father's Day ideas you guys have come up with. Great stuff...maybe something with a footprint would be good. Trick is sneaking past DH as he works from home, except when lecturing & we only have 1 car & live in the sticks...hmm.

First night away from home last night (at my parents 200 miles away). Bill was a bit fractious last night, took longer than usual to settle and only took 2minutes of milk at 11! But he still slept till 5 and then 8.30 and is all smiles today for his besotted grandparents.

JustHayley I think you're a bit of a star. I really do. I also think it's lovely that you still get butterflies - that's pretty romantic.

Also loving the footprint/handprints idea for FD!! (although had planned on giving DH exactly what he got me for Mothers Day; zilch..)...
Have had a tough few days with DD: she's decided she wants to be held at all times day & night & she's fed for waaaay longer at each feed. 52 minutes in one sitting clocked yesterday! Am aching from all the holding & am also at the stage where am fed up letting things go & being restricted so much. She's been in such bad firm that taking her out would have been too much hard work. Anyway; wondering if part of the change in my mood has been the introduction of Cerazette. Has a'one else taking it noticed a'thing? I've had the odd day of feeling down, but this has been 3 days in a row now of being teary & less able to cope. Been on the pill about 5 days.....
Hope e'one ok!

Jelly my Emily is being like that too. Think it's a wonder week thing.
Not using any contraception at moment except for the ultimate contraception of no sex and no experience of Cerazatte but hopefully someone else can help. Sorry you're feeling crappy.

We had the worst night to date with Harry last night I think DP and I managed two hours sleep in total. Although he is now going three hours between feeds.

How are you all?

If any of you have/are going to start tummy time there is a great piece of kit out there by a company called Lamaze it is called the spin and explore sea gym. It is part of their Early Doscovery range (0 - 6 months) and has been developed by Child Development experts and Pediatricians. It has what looks like a saddle which is rasied in the middle so babys head and feet are lower dowm which encourages baby to lift his/her head, this rotates 360 so they can explore the mat below. The actual mat can be used on it's own. and has various different sensory activities on it to aid development. Harry loves his and seems to work wonders .

xx

Yummy - we have been doing tummy time since week 1. Ds 1 hated being on his tummy so wanted Aaron to get used to it asap although will look at that mat.

Got diagnosed with postnatal depression today by hv. It's a slight relief in the sense that there is a reason I have been the way I am but also crap its not a "phase". got an appointment with gp tomorrow to discuss way forward.

kat1885 the mat is a great invention and is easy to move around.

So sorry to hear that you have postnatal depression but as you say it is good to know why you have been feeling so low. If you need anything let me know (my number is always available if you need it) xx

kat at least now you know, it can be treated

Have done no 'tummy time' with DS. Didn't really bother with DD either. Bugger crawled at 6mo so it didn't harm her development! What little he will do will be largely accidental once he can roll over, and on a cheap baby gym from ASDA.

Ultimately these babies are all going to be able to do the same things whether we do tummy time, BLW or follow SWMNBN's routines. By the time they're about 2 you'll not know which child has done what - lots of roads, same destination!

Flisspaps you make a great point perhaps I am an over enthusiastic first timer and need to ease of a little. xx

kat1885 sorry to hear that, I had it first time round and didn't do anything about it. I wish I had as I really can't remember many good things about my first year with DS1 and now I've had another baby, I realise how much better it can be without the depression and I look back and feel really guilty about not doing anything about it. So well done you for having the guts to talk to the health visitor about how you've been feeling, now you'll be able to look back and know you did everything you could to make things better. I seem to recall that your LO is a crier and a poor sleeper. DS1 had colic and was a crap sleeper too and I think that contributed hugely. Its very very difficult to 'snap out of it' when you are chronically sleep deprived. I hope your GP is helpful.

To those who were looking, it was me that posted this link about decoding babies' cries.

Right, a question. Has anyone else got a baby that still only settles on them?

DS2 is 9 weeks now and will only stay asleep if he is on someone or he is being pushed in a pram. If the wheels stop he wakes up. I use a sling but he doesn't always stay asleep if I sit down and my back is getting knackered. None of this would be that big a deal, but I have a very lively 3 yr old who is getting really fed up of not getting any attention and very few cuddles. I end up getting ratty with him and after I shouted at DS1 for the nth time today he said "I'm really tricky and stressful, aren't I mummy". I haven't said anything of the sort to him but he obviously feels like he's being a pain (which he is, but not without a good reason). I tried to reassure him that I still think he's fab, but the reality is that he's quite a demanding (but otherwise delightful) child and I find him really hard work with a baby around too. Feel like I'm being a shit mum and I'm not sure how to make it better.

Sorry for the rant, any ideas how to get the baby to nap on his own in the day (co-sleep at night, so not worried about that)?

Thanks for the link UniPsychle it is really great. I have been listening to Harry's crys and can here the sounds and it does seem to work. Harry is the same with sleeping during the day (and the night sometimes) my parents advised me to let him cry for 10 minutes (it is so hard when I want to pick him up and cuddle) but it does seem to help as we rule out all the other reasons. Also daddy speaking in "angry" daddy voice. How do you co-sleep as we sometimes put Harry in with us at 05:00 when he won't settle and he lays on mummy's left arm and I wrap my right arm around him and place my legs curled up sp he is cacooned. xx

Can't offer any advice uni just to say my baby will also only sleep when held or in the car/sling (moving only). He will not even settle in the pushchair. The only time he will sometimes sleep is on my bed then normally only after me feeding him laying down at about 10pm ish. I too have an older ds who is 3 (& a dd 6yrs). I agree it is utterly knackering. I yearn for a baby who will sleep in a Moses basket/cot, even for the odd hour! Makes housework & older childcare doubly hard.

uni DD used to hate her Moses basket. Here are tips that the midwife gave us.. Hope they help...

Put towels either side of LO up to armpits so that they can't wriggle. And feel cocooned. This one really helped DD.

Hot water bottle on basket for few mins to warm the basket up so that it's not a cold shock after bring snuggly and warm.

Tilt Moses basket so it's not completely flat. Also helped with our DD

Would your LO sleep in a bouncy chair? DD loves hers in the daytime more than her basket. Would one with a vibrate option work?

Uni Have you tried swaddling? Nancy sleeps in her Moses basket quite happily once she is swaddled, waking just once for a feed between 8.30pm and 8am.

Without the swaddle she wakes every few hours or so..... I love swaddles.

Morning all - hope you're well. Kat I think it's really good that you are dealing with your PND head on, and not ignoring it. Good on you.

I am currently in bed having just fed the little one. I just have 1 question: will my boobs ever stop leaking? 7 1/2 weeks & they're as bad as ever...I thought these things were supposed to settle.

Morning Henrietta! I'm just finishing DD's feed. She's on my shoulder doing her little jerks & twitches before she conks out. Better late evening & night in that she slept twice in her pram. Woke at 02.25 & 5.30 & that too is am improvement. Am contemplating getting ip now & doing the Shred...
Leaking; I did with my first DD but not second & third. The only difference is that I expressed daily with my eldest & haven't bothered either time since. (Apart from the odd time here or there). May not help you, but thought I'd share!
Kat; good luck today. So glad PND has been recognised. It's so treatable & hopefully you'll start to feel better soon.

Kat - all the best! We are here when you need us.

WEIGHT AGAIN. My day yesterday went downhill when I went to way DS and it turned out he dropped from 75 to 35%. My story is that he did not put his birth weight on within 14 days, I formula fed him, he went up to and the MW said I can stop now, all good. This was 10 days ago.

HV yesterday said I have to formula feed him at least twice and she's coming by next week to check if he's gained weight. I am basically back to square one as I now think again, I can't sustain my baby EBF.

I don't know if this is a growth spurt or just the cherry on top: my breasts don't get full anymore. Raphael is 6 weeks tomorrow and for I think at least 10 feeds, I had to give both breasts and he sucked them empty. There are super flat and don't get full either. Yes, there is milk in there but it's not the tennis ball shape I'm used to, especially in the morning.

What does formula achieve anyway apart from the weight? I feed him at 10.00pm, 3pm, 7pm than start to wake him up for feeds at 10am, 1pm, 3pm, 7pm. I don't want to wake him up at night to squeeze another feed him and anyway, all this waking up during the day makes him miserable. All he wants after the one feed at 7am is to go straight back to sleep, no looking, no smiling and that's so sad. I think he's overtired during the day, especially as he only has light naps and wakes up every 20 mins. We are a lot out and about walking as this helps but still .... a deep sleep only comes at night.

I just don't know what to do. Is my baby not thriving because he's not on 75%? How do I know? And yes, he would take some formula, I'm sure of it but on the other hand: if I feed him for 40mins and he's in his basket/ pram 10mins later fast asleep, how can he be hungry? And he sleeps for 3 - 4hrs. Is that really a sign of exhaustion?

On the other hand, his length is still at 99%. Best thing would be if I made him clear to him, that growing tall isn't good enough, he needs to go wide.

I'm annoyed that the answer to everything is formula. So shall I drop my evening feeds and give him the bottle or just continue till I see in a week or two if he dropped even further. And if he did, have I harmed him in his development?

Thaleia I'm sure you haven't harmed him! How much are you able to get from EBF now? If you can pump a good quantity over the day you can at least have the comfort of knowing you're giving him one good feed of BM a day.

I'm still expressing during the day and storing the milk for night time feeding - I can get over 100ml now which is such a change from a few weeks ago!

Actual breastfeeding is still not working brilliantly for me but still offer boob first before giving formula and DD can feed for anything from 15 mins to 45.

She is getting weighed today (if the threatened storm doesn't deter me from leaving the house!) and I wait to see whether we are keeping on track. She is certainly bigger but I'm sure she is not putting on as much as she should.

uni have you tried really tight swaddling? Around the arms so he thinks he's still being held. Or, controversially, we put ds2 down on his front. We did it with ds1 when swaddling didn't seem to be enough to stop him from waking every half hour. If it's only during the day then you can keep an eye on him, and keep the curtains open so he doesn't fall asleep too deeply.

thaleia perhaps 35th centile is where your ds naturally sits? My friend has a long skinny baby (just like her dh), he's 99th centile in length but only 25th centile in weight. Please don't feel your boobs have to be full to produce milk, around 6 weeks your body has properly established feeding so your boobs are no longer engorged. So they will be a lot more comfortable. I find my boobs are only full if we're coming out of a growth spurt where ds2 has been feeding constantly for a few days then goes back to spacing feeds out a bit more. You're doing really well, don't feel too pressurised by the hv - unless ds continues to drop on the charts everything you're doing is fine. It sounds like he's putting all his effort into growing lengthways - so he is growing!

Will reply to one post at a time as on my phone - sorry for multiple posts!

yummymummy nothing wrong with enthusiastic, I'm just a lazy bugger and refuse to buy anything unnecessary if I can help it, I've got enough clutter in the house from work without adding to it now

Uni Yes, have one of those. DS won't sleep anywhere else but on me or DH. DD just gets on with it. Nothing works bar cuddles for him. DD didn't self settle until somewhere between 9 and 12 mo IIRC.

yummy if you don't want to leave Harry to cry for 10 minutes, don't. Personally it's not something I believe in, but others do. Certainly it was something more recommended in the past than it is now.

yummy I'm an enthusiastic second timer! Spent the last 10 days trying to bid on the fisher price rainforest playgym on eBay. Failed several times but managed to get one in the end. Now looking at getting the jumperoo in a few months time. I know it wont make a blind bit of difference to his development but if it amuses him temporarily while I'm attempting to continue freelancing from home then it's a good investment from my point of view.

Packing ds1 off to his aunt's today. Have ds2's 8 week jabs - then my first bit of freelance writing work to be getting on with . Wonder if my brain still works?

Thank you all for your well wishes re pnd about to go to Dr to discuss treatment.

Aaron is really congested and didn't sleep last night. I got 2hrs sat up on the sofa holding him so was only a light doze really. Dh didn't even do morning feed due to having to go to work :( wonder if my 4yo will let me have a nap...

Thaleia it may be that Raphael's natural centile is low (and anywhere between 1 and 100 is NORMAL) and the formula is artificially lifting the centile he is on.

By now your breasts probably won't seem full, they never empty as milk production is constant.

It's normal for a baby to wake, eat, go back to sleep and not play in the morning.

Is DS getting lots of wet and dirty nappies? Does he smile at all? If so, I'd still not worry. Personally I'd stop weighing DS (I won't take my DS now) as its only 1 indicator of if a child is thriving.

You don't have to FF twice a day if you don't want to, the HV cannot make you.

Have you posted over on BF/FF again - ask for Tiktok. if you think you're not producing enough milk, fenugreek is meant to help or you could ask for domperidone from the doctor to boost supply.

If you're still trying to push 3 hrs between feeds I'd leave that for now and feed on demand fully. DS will naturally go longer in time.

Finally, if you do FF that's ok you know - its perfectly good stuff but I understand the emotional tie to BF - it's all controlled by hormones so it's bound to be emotionally hard when you don't think it's working out.