Sept 08- The threenagers have arrived - Advanced negotiating and crowd control skills required

[DebiTheScot]

Sorry Meglet if you wanted to start the thread with your title but I thought I'd best do it while there was still one space to post the link to this one on the last one.

I really want a dominoes with honey + mustard dip now.

I don't think I've had takeaway since DD was a baby.

mmmm...junk food...

MrsA I miss DD when she's at school coz she's 4 1/2, helps set the table for meals, entertains DS2, and plays hama beads/does colouring all day. She's really good company and keeps the other two in a good mood most of the time too. Although the girl I picked up from school today was overtired, whingy, barely ate dinner, cried at the slightest thing. Sigh. When's half term?
We had a friend over this afternoon and there was some issue with her DS and my DS1 which resulted in my DS screaming at this boy and snatching something off him. It was so out of character, he just saw red, it took him ages to calm down and I never did find out what happened but made it clear that his response was inappropriate. Hope he doesn't behave like that at playgroup . Can't find the blimmin playgroup welcome letter either so I'm sure I'll forget to take or do something desperately important.

Your lovely messages have reduced me to tears. Thank you for all your support. I know I shouldn't moan - I have 2 healthy children, a liveable income and good friends and a man who loves me.
I guess I am just so very sad that things have turned out the way they have again. I spent so much energy fighting for a normal birth and to have it snatched from me at the end, especially the independent midwife who dropped me, yet has still kept all our cash despite the contract stating that if I transferred into hospital she would remain as my advocate and provide 121 support post natally. We now have to go down the route of solicitors to get some of our money back for breach of contract and she won't give me my notes unless I agree to a face to face debrief which I am so not ready to have yet but I need my notes to see what was said at the hospital when she refused to see us..... Just want to enjoy my baby.

Another thing that has happened (which we've told no one else, as I am so embarrassed and devastated by it) - I found out from the comm mw that the hospital mw we saw referred me to social services. Apparently, when I went in for monitoring on the Monday, they wanted me to stay in but at that time, there was no indication that a home birth wouldn't be possible (as far as I was concerned, my risk factors hadn't changed and monitoring seemed all fine, so I still hoped for a HB) and so I self-discharged. It was my decision to do so and my right as an adult.
On this basis, 'they' (hospital policy?) referred me to social services, stating that I may not look after the baby if I didn't look after myself. The 2 senior mws I saw at hospital apparently refused to do this referral as there was no basis but in the end one of the other mws did it. I found all this out after I got home (they hadn't want to worry me in hospital apparently) but my comm mw tried her best to reassure me that it will all come to nothing.

She had to fill in a form about why I had refused ante natal care but she did put a personal note in that she thought there was no basis for any concern.

I have also found out that apparently i 'discharged' DS and myself from hospital against medical advice, which was news to me! I signed nothing and all they were bothered about was that he had lost weight and so we agreed to feed every 2 hrs once at home, which we did - this was noted as against medical advice but I was not told this!

Finding out all of this make me panic so much (was I at risk of losing DS and DD?!!) that I just agreed to top him up with formula to keep them happy (tbh, I would have agreed to anything at that point to keep him safe) so bf went downhill from then on.
I have now lost all trust of nhs staff and it's lucky we don't want any more babies as I simply couldn't trust anyone to care for me and respet me.

Sorry, once again a mememe post but your messages really have helped.

I am just speechless MrsA. This all sounds like bullying and bullying tactics by everyone concerned. There are so many things wrong with this story (none of which are your fault).

Your post is NOT me, me, me. And if it is, by God you deserve it to be.

I am so bloody angry on your behalf. The majority of this situation has been caused by other people covering their own arses. NOT because you have been reckless. For people to suggest that you were not putting the health of you and your baby first is wicked and unforgivable.

I'm sorry my response isn't very constructive, I'm just so . hopefully I will have some helpful suggestions later ........

Oh mrsa

Am just

The MWs were covering their arses, frankly, as was your IM...but referring to SS? I am gobsmacked.

If the MW has stated on the referrel form she feels the referral was unneccessary and if they then still come out and see you then they will see that its ridiculous and nothing will happen and this will all go away.

When I think of some of the families I know where there is no SS involvement and yet it is so desperately needed!...the mind boggles!

You are absolutely doing the right thing wrt getting legal advice and getting your money back from the IM.

Am bloody furious about this

Bloody hell MrsA. I wish I had some advice for you on how to put things right but tbh I can't see how right now you can do much except survive and get through the tough days. This of course being common enough to ensure maternity services remain dire.

Two things though. 1) I am not the only person on this thread that has been referred to social services for the significant crime of 'disagreeing with professionals'. It feels personal and horrific but I can assure you that SS are more desperate than you are to find nothing wrong that they might had to fund. If they come don't even tidy up or even get properly dressed if you don't feel like it. They probably won't even notice. Do agree with everything they say regardless.

2. if they do come ask for a referral to homestart or even better self-refer directly then tell them when they come. I had them for a short period, supposedly to take ds off me whilst I s

Pent time with dd or to play with them both whilst I had a bath/slept/whatever.

In actual fact I used to simply have her there for company and drink tea in the corner whilst she told me what an amazing and together mum I was and listen to me whinge. However I think they are a wonderful, non-judgemental and valuable service and often take the place of family/extended family that used to offer support. You can cancel at any time at all.

Oh MrsA it's so shocking and you shouldn't have these extra things to worry about at this time.

I'd second the recommendation for Homestart - they do their best to match you up with someone depending on what your needs are, and I had a lovely lady who was a friend and took us out to do nice things or played with the kids while I had a sit down.

And I have been referred on 3 occasions to SS because every time I have had to call the police about ex, there was an automatic referral to them. It seemed a hideous and shameful thing, but they were fine every time, just came for a chat, could see the kids were happy and I was doing everything I should be doing to keep them safe, and that was it, case closed each time.

Oh MrsA you have been through the mill.
I remember the first time we were referred to SS, it was the best thing that could of happened to us. We got help with things we didn't even realise we needed help with.
They won't be heavy with you. You have just given birth after a hard pregnancy and a lot of battles to try for the birth you wanted. You weren't being stubborn and you weren't endangering ds's life. I'm sure they will take into account what has gone on before and how it resulted in your losing your faith in the NHS.
Talk with them and make sure they know you have a good support network in place. Don't jump hoops for them just be yourself. If you want the help of Homestart then you can self-refer. They are good, even if just for a chat whilst they play with DD.

MrsA according to my DSIS (she worked in drugs / alochol rehab for a while), SS are very touchy these days after the Baby P case so everything gets referred to them just in case they miss something. I'm sure you will never hear from them again, or if anything a brief letter / call. With a bit of luck you might get some Homestart help from it.

I was referred after I had to call the police about XP. Nothing ever came of it, they said as long as he had moved out it was fine.

I do remember the shit PN 'care' I had after having DS and crying with him in the hospital on Day 2, I promised him we would go home the next day as I couldn't stand being in there a moment longer . Luckily I was discharged the next day, I suspect I would have been on the verge of walking out anyway if they hadn't of let me go. PN care in this country is so hit and miss .

Oh and MrsA, you don't need to be 'struggling' to justify a referal to Homestart. You can simply be a SAHM with a newborn and toddler, who is recovering from a C-section. That is enough and bridges the gap left by appalling post natal provision, and distant family networks. That's one of the things it is for, so don't feel that any of us are implying you're not coping iyswim.

MrsA I bet loads of people don't realise that you're finding it hard as you often sound so upbeat.

My friend had homestart help and really appreciated it.

It doesn't matter if C is late for Nursery for a while or if she eats breakfast in the car or even is sent with it to nursery, or if DS only has half a feed before you go out, or if he cries for a little bit while you get a shower or something to eat ..... we've all done it.

I hope things get better soon x

Thanks guys for all the comments. I really appreciate the support. I can be more open on here as it's easier than facebook iykwim (plus my mum is on fb and I don't tell her anything!)

I'm quite a private/shy person, so not sure homestart is for me plus things are getting easier. Like DD, DS is so far turning into a good sleeper. Past 4 nights he's had a last feed at 11 and slept till 6 and I am a waaaay better person with 6+ hrs sleep! I'm also hoping to get back driving tomorrow.

Now the newborn fog is lifting, I am now getting angry - i have asked AIMS for help in making a formal complaint to the hospital about their treatment and what was said to the IM. I am also lodging a complaint for unprofessional conduct to the nursing & midwifery council about the IM (plus she left hb drugs in my fridge which were completely unlabelled). DP is instructing a solicitor to sue the IM for the cost we paid.

This is what I do well - complain and don't get fobbed off!

Glad to hear things are picking up MrsA, getting some unbroken sleep makes a huge difference doesn't it?
I don't know anything about it but am I right in thinking you can get counselling to help with traumatic births? I'm sure it's been discussed on here before. Is that something you feel could help?
I hope you get some answers from hosp and IM. I still can't believe how badly you were treated from so many people, not just 1 person/dept.

Sounds like a plan mrsa !!!

So. Day 1 of potty training Toby and we had 2 accidents before 9am! I just dont get it...he will quite happily sit in a dirty nappy for hours

Ds1 was dry in the day at 2.10....where have I gone wrong???

Any tips gratefully recieved!

bec you've done nothing wrong. Take it from someone who started potty training DD nearly 3 years ago now and is still waiting for the immortal words "I need a wee".

The good news however is that DS1 has only had one accident in the last week!!!!! He's been in pants since 2nd December, and just after new year the famous 'it just clicked' happened. I can't tell you what a relief it is to have a child tell you they need a wee, even in a supermarket, or while watching tv. DH and I are utterly relieved.

MrsA that's a great amount of sleep you're getting - more than I am!! Weaning DS2 is going well, and he's getting closer and closer to sleeping through the night again, last night he made it to 6:30, so the holy grail of 7am is looming. Although he was too tired for lunch today (having got up at 6:30...) so we'll see what happens tonight. We're glad you feel able to vent your frustrations on here and are with you every step of the way :)

Actually urintated in my face today in my rush to get him on the potty...quite funny if you are not the one covered in wee I suppose....

ds1 v tired after 1st day back at school.

Dropped Tobys paperwork off at pre school...he was v v underwhelmed

. All children do it differently. I was sure DD would be potty trained by Easter at 2.7yrs. How wrong I was, even nursery gave up on her and said to wait.

She has pretty much cracked it now at 3.4. Although we were watching Abney & Teal this evening and I thought I heard a tap being turned on near to me. DD was standing up, transfixed by A&T and wee-ing on the laminate floor. Bloody huge puddle it was too. Her face was .

I toilet trained ds and dd together (2 year age gap). Don't think there is any right way. More and more believing that they are ready when ready.

DD (younger) even managed to be dry at night well before ds too.

I guess for some, that is just the way it is.

meg and star sniff, thanks

Well, the virus I have been in denial about since the day before xmas eve has become full blown

Toby did a bit better as the day went on...actually did a poo on the toilet at bedtime too!

Thing is, he can do it! I know he can!

I love abney and teal

Hey meglet better laminate floor than carpet!!

DD was dry in the day at 2.3 yrs but oits taken her over a year later to be dry at night. She had been dry in her nappy for a while but we waited till she asked not to wear one herself. I believe it's best to leave it to them.

Well DS spent pretty much every minute cryoing from 7 till midnight last night, then conked out after a feed till 8.30am!! I'm feeding on demand, even though ff/ebm and just kept offering a bottle last night andhe ate and ate! He was weighed yesterday (5 weeks today) and is now 10lbs 5oz - not a newborn any more! He is still demanding in the day - feeds every 2 hrs at least but I guess if he needs that to see him through the night I shouldn't complain. Just a shame that the only time I get to do stuff is in the early hrs of the morning as he cries a lot in the day so I end up just holding him. But I think. We had a smile this morning!!

mrsa A smile???? OOhhhhhhh....lovely! Toby was like that...fed and fed in the day - plus side was he stopped having night feeds at 9 weeks!!! Fantastic weight gain too!

Am ill so am going back to bed...cant face the housework atm.....

MrsA I love those first smiles, even the windy ones. I'm glad things are getting a bit better. Lack of sleep makes everything look ten times worse. And a good nights sleep is worth it's weight in Gold

Robyn has been dry for ages now but DD1 was a nightmare to train. She didn't 'get it' for years and up until she was 6 we always had a spare pair of knickers just in case. She would often just wee where she was when she was Robyn's age, she never asked to go to the loo. Thankfully her problems are now all sorted, it is nice to have 1`teenager out of nappies
I don't think there is an universal right time to potty train. Some kidsa re ready before 2 and some aren't ready until 4. You just have to trust your instincts and train them when they are ready

debs I think there's a big window for potty training too. 2-4 doesn't sound very long but when other kids the same age are being done it seems an eternity. Nursery were great when I was grumbling about DD a few months ago, they said it's not unheard of for them to be p/t kids in the August before they start school.

bec Hope you've been able to rest a bit.

Hi meg A bit, yes. Been doing a few jobs between sit downs!

Toby doesnt start school til Sept next year so theoretically I could wait but I am sick of changing pooey nappies and he can it do, I know he can.

I could also wait re: pre school but really want to get him used to 2 x mornings per week so by the time he starts school it wont be such a shock to his system IYSWIM?