Sept 08- The threenagers have arrived - Advanced negotiating and crowd control skills required

[DebiTheScot]

Sorry Meglet if you wanted to start the thread with your title but I thought I'd best do it while there was still one space to post the link to this one on the last one.

MrsA Another sorry to hear C is being a bit temperamental. It is probably a bit of jealousy mixed with excitement at CHristmas. The best way to deal with the jealousy is to ignore as much of it as you can, unless she or baby could get hurt.

Getting back to nursery will give her some routine back and she may calm down a bit, especially if she is tired.

When she gets screamy and refuses to listen to you then refuse to listen to her. Tell her in a quiet voice that you can't understand her when she screams and if she uses her 'big girl voice/words' you will listen.

Try not to shout as you just make it a competition and she will keep getting louder and louder.
And don't panic, you are a successful woman with 2 lovely children and you can do this.

Taking down the Christmas decs tomorrow I can cheerfully say that we have had one of our best Christmasses ever and I'm a bit sad to get back to reality. DS is back at school Weds then DD1 and Robyn go on Thurs so peace will reign on Thursday Then time to sort out all the crap we have. I am stareting my Spring clean now so by the time it is actually Spring it will look like something has been done

I was contemplating an AIBU thread, but not sure I have the courage!
So - thought would ask you lovely ladies as you are kinder!
dc see their dad's mum, stepdad and sister regularly - usually one day every other weekend - they pick them up about 10,30, and drop them back in the evening - around 7pm if it's school the next day, but if not, then any time that suits them. It seems to be getting later and later. Recently I asked what sort of time they'd be bringing them back, and their grandma asked what time would suit me - I said about 8. They arrived just after 9. No word from them to say they would be later.
Yesterday, I got a text just before 8 saying they'd be leaving a bit late so would be back about 9.30... and when they arrived (at about 9.35) turns out they'd been in London visiting relatives.

AIBU to be a bit annoyed that they bring a 3 and 5 year old home so late, and also take them off somewhere without letting me know? I wouldn't mind, but I think it's reasonable of them to let me know isn't it? And the time they get home - would be nice to know, and also not so late every single time. Especially as they still wake up early the next day, just being more tired, and then sleeping late when it's a school morning instead....

sorry for long me me me post

Has this been going on for long or is it the holidays at work? I'm a bit scared at the times my children are going to bed and getting up these days and worried about them getting back into school.

Anyway, YANBU and I bet if you posted in AIBU you'd get the majority saying the same.

How regularly do they see them? You know, you might feel helpless but really they have an interest in keeping you happy. If you want them back at 7pm, ask them to be brought an hour earlier. That way you can complain about them being late whilst not actually being frustrated.

Perhaps insist that on the days they have them they have their dinner with you and you can tell the IL what time the children's dinner will be on the table?

I dunno. A few suggestions.

splish Yanbu. Are they the sort of people you have a good enough relationship with that you could say "being only 3 and 5 they really need their 12 hours a night and I usually have them in bed for 7, sadly they don't sleep in later if they've gone to bed later so I know its a pain as you love the extra time with them but could you please bring them back by 7 for the next few visits?" or similar...?

I have news. Exciting news. Well exciting news to me anyway. After a month in pants, today DS1 told me he needed a wee. Not just once as has occasionally happened before, but three times in the same day. For the first time ever he had dry pants in the evening because he kept himself dry, not just coz I sent him to the potty regularly enough. It only took him 33 months less than it took DD to get it

debs i'm with you in having had a brilliant Christmas, I was sad taking the decs down on Saturday but I find it more depressing to still have them up in January!

MrsA how has today been? Is C any better behaviour wise? How's M's feeding? Hope you're doing well and looking forward to an exciting year :)

DD's back to school tomorrow, so back to the early starts, and chivvying them all on to get out of the house, plus the new complication of needing to feed DS2 some breakfast. Then DS1 starts playgroup on Thursday...my little man is growing up too fast.

they've seen them every 2 weeks or so since we came back from the refuge, so over a year. And they used to bring them back around 8ish. But it seems to have slipped to 9ish. In term time too, but only when it's a Saturday evening - but it seems to impact on Monday morning anyway, rather than giving me a lie in on Sunday!

They eat at theirs... although dd1 said she was hungry as soon as she got home, and claims she only had 1 meal between 11am when they left and 9.30pm when they got back.

Yanbu splish.

If someone has my dc's I always let them know if I'm running late and where I am. I did even when XP saw them and I was 10 mins down the road at the gym. As I would expect someone with my DC's to let me know when they will be back or where they are.

9 o'clock is pretty late IMO. There must be a way of getting them back on side without pissing them off, tell them the kids are getting shattered if they're not back by 8.

I don't think you are BU splish (welcome back btw!), I'd be annoyed if mine were kept out that late except for a special occasion. You'll have to be brave and put your foot down!

Welcome back to you too Star, how are things?

Well done carrie's ds, see he'll get there soon!

DS1 burst into tears at bedtime when I didn't put a nappy on ds2 to go to bed as he still has one but ds2 has been dry since before Christmas, even when we've been away. Hopefully it'll give ds1 some kind of subconcious kick that'll make him wake up for a wee.

DS2 started pre-school today. He just went for the morning and had a good time. He was a bit wary going in but no tears and he let me go (to do boring jobs) within a few minutes. A friend's taking him tomrrow and childminder picking him up so hopefully he'll be ok with that.

Carrie - trouble is that if they see them on a Sunday I do say they need to be home by 7 because of school, but that I don't mind so much on a Saturday... however, I wasn't ever envisaging that it would be 9 or later... it just seems to have been really late the last few occasions.

I find it hard to say things to them because I think they are easily offended (they returned a Christmas card once, as sub standard!), the kids love seeing them, and it is also the only time off I get, so don't want to jeopardise that

Thanks everyone for making me feel better, and that I'm not BU! I think may try your suggestion "Meglet" and say how tired they are on Mondays from getting back so late. Not sure how to say I'd like to know if they go on a trip as well, without getting them all defensive etc though

Good luck with school chivvying Carrie - especially fitting in baby breakfast - I find dd2's fierce independence re dressing and refusal to accept any help on school mornings stressful enough! We have had quite a few occasions of back to front and inside out clothes, funnily enough.

splish I second everything that has been said - IMO children that age need to be in bed before 8, school night or not.

So day 2 of being on maternity leave alone with DS. DP back to work yesterday, although working from home, so he's still helping with night feeds.
I am probably going to post elsewhere about this but those of you with more than one child - any tips for the morning routine?
Thing is, DS is bottle feeding (expressed and formula top up) on demand and currently waking around 2-3ish and 5.30/6ish wanting a feed, then needs a feed around 8.30am.
Downside to this is that DD gets up about 7 and needs to leave for nursery by 8.30am. DP is currently helping out and taking DD to nursery as i can't drive yet but that will change soon and I'll have to get us both out of the door by 8.30, plus DP is away with work in January for the odd night here and there.
Argghh - how do i cope!!
Any tips if I'm trying to get D dressed or give her breakfast and DS starts to cry for a feed/needs nappy change. DD eats breakfast herself but it needs getting for her and she can't dress herself. DS is also feeding every 2 hours in the day and can take up to 45mins to feed, so giving him a quick feed before we leave isn't really an option. Atm, all i can see if me getting up at 5.30 to get ready or stuffing a feed into DS early and how I find time to express I don't know.

Sorry this is a bit me me me but reality is sinking in and I am really stressing as to how to do it all alone without leaving DS to cry and I don't want to do that.

Any hints/ides?

MrsA you'll be surprised at how quickly things change. Even within the next month you'll find that DS's feeding patterns change, he'll get more efficient and will go longer between feeds. DS2 always had a habit of falling asleep at awkward times, only cat napping then waking up when I finally got the chance to sit down, but the phase passed very quickly. Once your DS is only feeding once in the night, say 4ish, then you'll feed him again at 7 and he won't need that 8:30 feed, he'll be able to wait til you're back from nursery. It is hard but as they say...ttsp!

splish I hope you find the right words to explain that your DDs can't cope with the late nights, without offending the ILs. But returning a christmas card...some people need to grow up!

debi I can forsee that situation wrt nappies as both DD and DS1 still wear them overnight, but they share a room and I can imagine DS1 being dry quicker than his older sister.

I can't decide what I'm more excited about today...our new freezer or that starbucks now have a loyalty scheme

Ok I know the answer to my own question. anyone?!

Thanks for more supportive messages. Yes couldn't believe the Christmas card thing - was the year dd2 was born - they sent it back with a reproving letter as to why they felt they should have had something more special than a card out of a Sainsbury pack of 10. Despite then forgetting to even write in the card to the children....

MrsA - like Carrie says, ds will soon be feeding more efficiently and quickly. And babies are very adaptable. I'm not at all a Gina Ford person - with dd1 was entirely led by her needs, but she was 2.8 when dd2 was born, went to pre school 2 mornings a week, and we had activites every day like playgroups, library groups etc at fixed times, plus fixed bedtime... and dd2 did just fit in with that quite naturally. In many ways it was easier with her because of that.
Can you try offering him his 8.30 feed a bit earlier, while dd eats her breakfast? Perhaps a smaller amount if he's taking a long time to feed? Try not to worry about things before they happen... have confidence it will be OK, it does all get easier

Thanks for the reply carrie I think the baby blues have been delayed cos of xmas ands they are hitting now. Spent much of the morning in tears and feeling sorry for myself. DP hasn't helped by telling me to pull myself together and deal with it. I'm also taking a looong time to recover from the massive section - much longer than my previous one. DS is also the same as DD in that he hates to be put down, so crying is a big feature atm.

I am in awe of you - you talk about missing DD when she goes back to school - I feel bad as I'm relieved when DD's at nursery (guilt). I have them both on Friday and atm cannot envisage managing to make DD's lunch so not feeling too capable. I just need to focus on these are early days, DS is only 4 weeks old but sleeping when he sleeps - ha! Not a chance. By the time I've expressed and grabbed something to eat, he's awake for another feed.

Sorry - just feeling sorry for myself and a bit rubbish at this again. I also think my birth experience is sinking in and I'm once again feeling sad about it all.

splish thanks to you too, wasn't ignoring you. It just feels so hard and I feel like I've failed to give birth, failed to feed him myself and now can't even look after him well!

Lovely to see you splish, and as others have said, you are so not being unreasonable!

Nice to see you too Starlight

Happy New Year to everyone!!

mrsA - I remember having the fear about coping with two, and I think the answer is, you just do. Try not to analyse everything, because that can make things seem impossible. just deal with the situation as and when it's thrown at you. When they are so small their feeding and sleeping habits change quite quickly, so what may seem impossible today will be fine next week. I know this seems a bit airy fairy, but it's the truth. I like routine as much as the best of them, but sometimes it's not always possible.

I read your birth story and want to give you a massive hug. You have been through so much. Emotionally, mentally and physically. Often you can cope with one thing, but dealing with multiple issues is on another level, then add looking after a toddler and newborn into the equation.......

Don't underestimate what a difficult job you are doing. In one respect your dp is right, you do have to cope because you have no choice but to, but he also needs to listen and be there for you. Telling someone to pull themselves together doesn't help, saying something like that doesn't automatically make someone think 'yes, you are right. I must pull my socks up and just get on with it'. Understanding, a sympathetic ear and lots of cuddles are what it needed.

Give your body and mind time to heal and don't be so hard on yourself, and accept help whenever it is offered.

Have you tried a stretchy wrap sling for ds? Mine was a bloody life saver.

Oh mrsa So sorry you feel like this

I need you to really listen now though, ok?..........

You are not a failure! You have 2 gorgeous children who you love. You have a dp you love and who loves you. Please dont think you have "failed" at anything!

Going from 1 to 2 dc is tough - I certainly found it so! In fact there was a thread on MN not that long ago about how much harder going from 1-2 is compared to 2-3 or 3-4.

I cant believe I am having to tell you this but you are recovering from a major op and it was xmas 10 days ago!!!

You really need to cut yourself a great big piece of slack, look at your dc and think "wow" I did that! Arent I clever?" Because you are,

Like many, I dont find the baby stage easy/pleasant - for me with both of mine it was very much like being dropped at the bottom of a very large forbidding expanse of mountain, knowing I had to get to the top and just looking up and thinking "well, wtf do I do now??" And of course to me it seemd like every other mum was channelling Bear Grylls and had all the right equipment (crampons proper shoes etc) and I was stood there with baby sick on my shoulder and a dirty nappy in hand!!!

These are such early days.....please be kind to yourself. I agree with everyone else, ds will soon be in a new feeding pattern...it wont always be like this

xxxx

sigh.

that could very possibly be the wierdest anaolgy I have ever posted on MN

MrsA just to second becs thoughts....

"I cant believe I am having to tell you this but you are recovering from a major op and it was xmas 10 days ago!!!

You really need to cut yourself a great big piece of slack, look at your dc and think "wow" I did that! Arent I clever?" Because you are."

I used to let DD cry for a bit if I was chasing DS around, it got DS sorted out faster as I wasn't carrying a baby at the same time. Do you need to get C to nursery for a certain time or can you just rock up when you're ready? I thought I was doing really well getting DS to nursery by 10am in those days and we were always late for toddler groups. It doesn't matter if you're late for those places or if you have a young baby IMO.

The days stretch out when you're tired but spring is only 8 weeks away, don't over do it just because you feel you have to and want to be a supermum, just muddle through for now. ((hugs))

I can hardly cope with my 2 and I've been dealing with them for over 3yrs now. I haven't had a cs or got hormones running riot and I'm finding this time of year a struggle.

IMO the term 'confinement' on your Maternity certificate thing should be something new mums bear in mind as it seems to be forgotten these days with everyone being turfed out of hospital as soon as possible. I just googled it and in many countries mothers don't do anything for a month after the birth. It might be old-fashioned but I think there's a place for letting a mother recover and rest following the birth. These days it's a race to get back to normal and the human body and brain isn't wired up like that (unless you want to and feel up to it that is!).

MrsA - i reread my post, and hope it doesn't sound like I mean it should be easy now... I was trying to say that it WILL definitely get easier, and ds will fit around your schedules.

But I'm sure everyone finds it terribly hard at this early stage. When dd2 was 4 weeks old, our lives were quite chaotic, staying with various people to keep away from ex...but that hardly registered as difficult in comparison with coping with sleepless nights etc - I remember sitting crying with exhaustion in the night when she didn't want to sleep.

And I know things haven't worked out as you hoped.... but you DID give birth - you have your ds - and you ARE feeding him - he's gaining weight. Please don't feel like you have somehow failed because things didn't happen to plan. You're doing an amazing job, and it's natural to worry, and find it hard, and to cry, but you will cope, and it will get easier.

hey splish

meglet is spot on....in other cultures (and in ours as little as a generation ago) mothers gave birth in maternity homes and spent AT LEAST 10 days in hospital and more like 2 weeks to recover, be fed well, not have to lift a finger other than care for their baby and have someone to hand the baby to if needed. Can you imagine that ????

My mum was in hosptial for 10 days with me as was my MIL with dh. MIL was horrified I came home after 8 hours with Toby

In scandanavia new mothers get a home help for a month (?) after the birth...they do the shopping, cleaning, school runs etc....such a great idea and just what every new mum needs IMO.

I remember doing a school run when Toby was about 9 weeks old and it had snowed and I had to get ds1 to school and I was nearly crying with fatigue by the time we fought our way through the blizzard I was anaemic and feelig very fainty and sicky....it was awful really. Toby - although bottle fed - had 3 feeds per night which I did (well, I think dh did one when I was ill one night!) and it was rough for the first few weeks, but he stopped night feeds at 11 weeks which really made a massive difference.

Is there anyway you could afford a home help for a while - just to get you through these first few rough weeks?? You are recovering frmo a major op and I am a bit that the hospital/MW/HV havent checked you have adequate help.

Aw MrsA - you;'re doing a great job!
You're still alive. Both children are still alive. You haven't buggered off to the south of France without them. Anything esle is a bonus at this point - and 4-5 weeks seems to be the hardest for many people.

[please remind me of all this in around 10 weeks time...]

I haven;'t even got dc2 yet and A hasn't been there for breakfast (8.30) more than twice in the last couple months. They will feed him if delivered unfed but we tend to have breakfast at home and he gets there between 9 and 10ish.

Could you give dd breakfast in the car - sippy cup of drink and pot of dry cereal/ slab of bread and jam etc? Or put out stuff for her? Hopefully it will start to be easier soon.

Currently trying to convince myself it's not bad parenting to let ds watch the same movie twice in a row; it's learning how to fast-forward through ads by himself so very edcational!

Consultant today was lovely - says they may want to observe dc2 after birth but that would be a few hours and probably could be done in the MLU if we manage to birth there. Though the pelvis seems to be trying to catch up with last pregnancy so may order wheelchair shortly, and will take birth as it comes, I hope. At least we have a roof on the house this time. Just lacking a working laptop (researches smartphones!)

yy, women a generation older than me were all in for at least a week. Sections for a bit longer.

MrsA could you get any of the nursery staff to help out? They might be able to give you a hand for a few £.

Funny how it still has 'date of confinment' on the Mat B1 form but the way the NHS and social care / family life is set up these days there's bugger all chance of anyone getting a months rest .

And get as many ready meals / takeaways as you can afford. We lived on them for a while, very easy to eat pre-sliced dominoes with one hand while you hold a baby.

yy to take aways!

And if you can get a cleaner in for 2 hours per week for a couple of months!

I know my sis used the nursery staff at the nursery my nephews went to as babysitters in the evenings/weekends.