CRESH - Crap ham, stinky Brie, gin and lol'ing at birth plan believers

[AlpinePony]

Heeyah.

Ooohhh! I heard my name! Janit, miniCho doesnt even get a bath every DAY! she famously went for days on end due to neglectful father when my back was fucked!
I think my experience is in some ways similar to Muser in that miniCho found her bedtime herself (though I did not have the issue of her yelling unless in sling etc, that M had with Bob). I also think you find out what works for you and your baby, and that can turn out to be different to what you expect. I had always thought id be quite controlling, and find it hard to cope without a bit of a routine. In fact, we are as Janit says...pretty free flow. The only fixed times are lunch, dinner, and bedtime usually happens within the same hour slot each night. Otherwise I feed her when I think shes hungry, and put her to nap when she starts getting tired.
This works for us, but others might really struggle with it. I think that, as parents, we also need to look at what our tolerance and coping strengths are...some people can cope better than others. And sometimes we can cope with anything that comes our way, but have one Achilles Heel, eg. Sleep, grizzlyness etc. Its as important that we try to address our needs and weaknesses too, but by no means necessarily possible! MiniCho wakes through the night a lot at the moment, and I think the reason I can manage is because she is so happy during the day...if she was grumpy all day long it would probably do my nut!

Hello chocho!!! Lovely to see you here with your wisdom. Is so true about doing what you can cope with. I thought i would be way more go with the flow to begin with but it took me about 2-3 months to recover from the birth and then I started working so sleep became like the holy grail. I only found out about the guru through a total sheer coincidence, so who knows what I would have done? I'm sure I would have just gritted my teeth and carried on the way we were. I am grateful though because I'm sure I would have had some kind of nervous breakdown without her advice. He was a different child afterwards so it was massively worth it for all of us. Dare I say it, it does sound like you have a routine much like ours at the weekend!

Muse if it's any help, babymoo is often at his most wakeful around 9-10pm (after going down 6.30/7) - I don't know why this is, but he'll often wake up and cry out for up to a minute and I just stop breathing and hang on and 8/10 he will go back unless of course he's teething.

Talking of napping it took nursery two days to get him to nap EVERY time he is there and around the same time everyday. I'm told EVERY day what a good sleeper he is.

I've tried to carry it on at the weekends but he screams and cries.

Oh and we bath once a week.

Double Oh and we spit. Well not "we" but "he" spits. Its the only way he seems to know how to remove unwanted food from his mouth.

Always fascinating to know what peeps are up to. Just to prove that babies are bloody contrary - we had a loose routine going when Berwhale was about 3 months. He would nap in his cot during the day and was only waking up at around 3 for food. Then we hit the 4 month sleep regression and we were fucked. So my experience is that you can go from all the good habits/self-soothing in the world to a baby who will only nap in the day in the buggy or in a sling WHATEVER you do. In the end, you just have to go with the flow and do whatever works.

rocket I'll remember the pee tip!

Laurie, any encouragement welcome! Your clases sound great, must find some around 'ere. Let us know how nurseries go.

Bob, hurray for the end of building works, I hate them!

Osmosis ooooh - that MMR, gotit . I hope your little one gets better.

Hello Iggy, Cho and Drome*, nice to see ya again.

As for sleeping habits, I obviously have no experience or a fekking clue, but it's comforting to hear about everyone's different experiences. I know I am doing things differently than I imagined I would because I had such a difficult start with Tickle. He lost too much weight on day 5, we had to go into the hospital, and were told to top him up. Since then I have been combination feeding. I have wanted to go back to EBF, and as you can imagine midwives were all for it, but a pediatrician thought that I should continue topping up. So now I am really confuzzled what to do. I should be expressing and all sorts of things, but that is sometimes hard to do when he is unsettled after a feed and needs comforting. He does seem to have indigestion after some feeds which makes him very crampy / unsettled. But it's not after each feed. Has anyone had that? And I am not sure it's colic, as he does not scream, he is just very uncomfortable.

As for routines, funnily enough he seems to slip into some kind of natural routine where he mostly feeds every 3 hours, and has a long sleep from 7 or 8 till 5 with one feeding in between. I guess I should be happy with about 5 hours sleep I am getting.

Is anyone doing / has done combined breast and formula feed? Woo hoo, I have managed to finish one post with him sleeping on my lap!

I agree drom Sprout was really good at self settling at night (not so much for naps) and slept through from 7/8 til 4/5, this week she has been waking every hour or two from anywhere as early as 2 am although I generally haven't been feeding her til 4 ish (she has been going back to sleep with the dummy if waking earlier) I am very much in the winging it camp but we have had a bath/boob/bed routine at around 7 pm going since 6 weeks. I have no idea if this has helped with the sleeping through or if we were just lucky. Also since we got the bedside cot and I've been feeding her lying down in the night she seems to need feeding to sleep for her naps, which I guess makes sense (and isn't ideal!). But I am hoping moo is right and that these weeks of good sleeping will help her find that routine again after this stormy period.

I also find it really interesting to hear about different ways of doing things. And I like to know that if the sleep situation doesn't right itself in a few weeks time and we need to try something else, that there will be a wealth of experience here to draw from.

Yes mountie we did combination feeding for the first few weeks as I had problems feeding Sprout due to tongue tie (and very painful for me to feed her) plus she was very very sleepy and not wanting to latch on or even wake up to feed. It was a proper PITA to begin with and drove us a little crazy as the 3 hourly merry go round of feed (or try to) express, EBM/Formula was a proper grind (and when exactly are you supposed to sleep?) but I was determined I wanted the formula to be the smallest part so persevered. I freaked out a bit but got amazing support from MNers (I started a thread in the feeding section while having a meltdown at 4 am one morning on about day 5) It was VERY hard work to begin with but I think we managed to ditch the formula after about 2/3 weeks and then the EBM top ups not long after (its a bit of a blur now) She is now exclusively BF. We had the same thing of her seeming to be very uncomfortable (lots of grunting and working of the legs) but I think that was just her being small. She never really cried so I knew it wasn't colic. I was also really lucky that TB had an extra 2 weeks off after his PL as I am not sure I would have coped otherwise. I couldn't believe it took 2 of use working round the clock to feed such a small person!!

The main problem I found is that there is no way of knowing how much they are getting from the boob so the tops ups are pure guess work and initial problems make you a bit paranoid about trusting your instinct. The only way to tell is if they look satisfied after a BF, if they look healthy and by weight gain. If Tickle is out of the woods where weight is concerned could you try a few days of EBF and see how it goes? I think now he is older he will tell you if he is still hungry and if his weight gain slows you know might still need to top up?

Rockie, thanks for your experiences, they are VERY similar to ours, and extremely helpful to hear. CH is also on a month long paternity leave, and I am wondering how I'll manage when he goes back to work in a couple of days. So it took you about 2 - 3 weeks to switch form combination to EBF? How did you do it? Just by expressing after each feed and then topping him up with BM as well as formula? Do you know how old Sprout was when you completely ditched the formula? I am also so unsure whether to try for all of that as pediatrician seemed to think that he still needs top ups because he is guzzling a lot, and is not getting any chubbier - just stays super skinny and grows in length. So I really want to take your excellent advice re/ top ups (and you are so right re. trusting my insticts following the initial experience), but the pediatrician confuzzled me. Also I don't think I have adequate supply at the moment, so I really need to work on that. He is out of the woods with his weight, so I may do another weigh-in on Tuesday with HV and if it's ok, try and take away some of the top ups.

Also good to hear about grunting and working of the legs - that's exactly what Tickle does, withoug crying. Was there anything you did? Massaging his tummy seemed to help a bit today, but we are mostly stumped when this happens and spend time cuddling him or just staring at him hoping it would stop.

BTW, I am curious to know how everyone follows up weight. Do you all see your HVs twice weekly? Do they come to you or do you go to them? Where we live we have drop in clinics once a week. Is this how it works in your area? I am just curious. Our HV seems pretty useless, but it's good to follow up with Tickle. I may use the GP more...

P.S. Do you mind if I cry with gratefulness that you are all around to offer advice?

Weight. My girl was skinny and long for months. Is Tickle following his curve now? Even if that's not on a percentile curve I mean, just going up in a curve on the chart. Bob hovered between two for ages, but it was fine because she was tracking them.

Here we are advised to weigh once a month unless they think there's a problem, then it's fortnightly. We go to the drop in clinic. I haven't spoken to a HV since the week I gave birth when one came round. At the clinic you see the weighing staff and can request to speak to a HV if required.

I was worried about weight for ages and still do fret a bit at times (although I've not had her weighed for about 6 weeks). But as long as Tickle seems happy, is producing lots of wet and dirty nappies, and isn't losing weight then that's all good things. I think it's only if they drop 2 percentiles that it's meant to be a real concern.

And after her slow start Bob started packing on the pounds at about 5 months. She's got proper chubby legs and everything now.

Yes, we used to rub her tummy and when she was old enough we used gripe water a few times but she just grew out of it in the end. TBH at night once I realised she wasn't in any actual pain I used to just put the pillow over my head and go back to sleep! (vying for bad mummy crown)

We are about to go out but I've just dug out my notes from when I was writing down everything so I'll get back to you later with more details.

Oh yes wet and dirty nappies! Although Sprout only pooed once a week and she was fine so even that isnt necessarily as bad sign.

Hey Muse, we haven't had enough weigh ins to know if he is following his curve, but it's looking like it. Actually after he regained his birth weight, the following week he gained 400g . Glad Bob is doing well!

RockAndAHardPlace, glad she grew out of it. I have already done the pillow thing, but CH makes me feel guilty and jumps up as he thinks Tickle should always feel like we are there for him. I agree in principle... Should we fight for the crown? Thanks for digging up the notes.

Being back at work has made it almost impossible to keep up with you lot! But that's OK because if I posted every day all my so called advice would just be complete shit-dribble and not very useful any way! You're not missing much.

box In the interests of the truth in advertising laws I am henceforth going to demand to see the embroidery in the trousers every time I fly.

By the way, I think the ad is very male-centric, and I feel rather pissed off on your behalf. After all - insult one ESH, insult us all.

I am moving house in 6 days. Nothing is organised. Meh.

The male-centricity of it all has been much debated on the company forum, mostly by men. I like my ads with extra cheese, and don't really care if it keeps banging on about 'young men.' I want me one of those wives, though!

There is a thread of the cake carrying variety going on. Will my baybee sleep better on ironed sheets? I think I need a strong drink.

Good luck with the house move fanfare And good luck with finally going back to work embroideredboxers

Right oh hopon I have checked back and we were topping up with formula for the first 3 weeks as I was expressing anywhere between 25 ml and 100 ml (and she was needing about 70/80 ml per feed) but at this point it was a bottle of EBM and then formula as she wasn't BFing at all. Over the course of the next week I managed to reduce the formula to one feed/top up a day and the rest was all EBM. I was pumping A LOT! But it was a bit easier as I wasn't spending the time BFing as well. Although I was trying to get her to a few times a day it was a while before she wanted to try again and I didnt want to push it. After 3.5 weeks I had started to get her back on the boob but my notes stop there. Then a few weeks later (5 weeks old) I used an iphone app for a bit and by then I was EBF. Anything from 40 mins to 10 mins depending on what she wanted and no formula. So I think it was a gradual weaning off the formula onto EBM and then whent he BFing clicked I stopped expressing.

So if you are bfing and toping up with formula only this might not be that helpful to you? I think its REALLY difficult to know how much formula you would need, how long is Tickle generally feeding for? Also I think topping up with formula can be a bit of a trap as it can affect your supply. (I took fenugreek extract for a while to help with mine) Probably better to spend a few weeks doing nothing but feeding! With weighing we have a drop in HV clinic on a monday and also there is a feeding clinic on a thursday in the city centre so I could get her weight twice a week if i wanted to. This would be completely over the top normally but was useful for reassurance when I dropped the top ups as I was going to the feeding clinic anyway (mind you it can be misleading as there is discrepancy between different scales!). I think the HV only came out twice but in the first month I saw the MWs quite a lot as they were keeping an eye on Sprouts weight because of the initial problems we had (and I think they might have been concerned about me losing the plot ;-)) Now I just get her weighed every 2-3 weeks depending if I can be bothered. She has always followed the curve just above the 25th centile.

I know the other half going back to work can be daunting but you will be fine, I was really dreading it but had a dentist appointment that morning. I was going to cancel it as it felt like TOO MUCH but decided I should HTFU and it was the best thing I could have done as it got me out of the house and made me realise it was doable. Try and get out even if its just a walk with the pram, it really does help.

Sorry this has turned into a bit of a ramble, hope it's a bit of a help rather than just confusing!

Bah, have read everything but himself has woken up hungry. Very glad to benefit from the experiences shared above though. Back in a minute

Great! 4th night of hourly waking from 2 am and now I have a sore throat. Wahhh!

I took BB to the health visitor not my usual one) on Friday for his 8 weeks jabs. She told me that he was getting over stimulated during the day and I must put him in his cot to sleep. My chest, a sling or any other of his various napping places were not sufficient. I said he gets so upset in his cot and really screams. She told me to put him in his cot, upstairs, shut the door and go and stand in the kitchen with the washing machine on and when i went to check after five or so minutes he would be asleep. If he wasn't sleeping I could pat him and shush him but not pick him up. I said he isn't crying, he is screaming and really distressed, she told me that her babies would both vomit but she didn't pick them up and they learned to sleep in their cots. Then my sister rang and said the same thing, then one of the neighbours came round and said the same thing.

I was left feeling completely inept and a terrible mother because my baybee doesn't sleep in his cot during the day (from 9pm to 3am and 4am to 6.30 he sleeps like a dream in it but I forgot that bit).

So, on Saturday morning I tried a compromise: I put him in his cot to sleep but stayed in the room. When he started to scream I picked him up and cuddled him and as soon as he stopped put him back. I had my ipod blasting foo fighters so I couldn't hear the screams as I figured he wouldn't know I couldn't hear him and was getting just as much comfort anyway. After the fourth bout of screaming I was a wreck and poor little BB was soaked through with sweat and very much wide awake. I felt like I had tortured him . The FDH took him for a drive while I calmed down and of course BB went straight to sleep in the car. That afternoon I had a full blown anxiety attack, the first one in years and the poor FDH had to put us both in the car and take me to the beach to calm down.

We agreed that I am not an inept mother I just have a baybee who doesn't want to sleep upstairs in the daytime. Also, he is 8 weeks fucking old - if he is distressed I am going to comfort him. The health visitor can fucking well fuck off. Today BB has slept on me and on his play mat and we are both much happier. So there

Rant over, sorry

fairy he gets weighed at baby clinic, used to be once a week. Now I thimk he will be weighed again at his next jabs unless I go in the interim. I will ring first to make sure the controlled crying bitch isn't there though.

PS He now weighs a whole stone so I am doing something right!

PPS we bath every couple of days for hair washing etc but tummy tub everday. Nothing gets all the horrid cheesiness out from his his multi chins though. That's my treat with a cotton bud in the evenings, is very satisfying

Thanks bitey wtf? You poor thing! That sounds horrendous. I wish these HVs would eff the eff off sometimes. YOU know your baby, I am glad you have decided to do it your way. Does he always wake up if you put him in the basket after he's gone to sleep? If/when you WANT to try and get him not napping on you the thing that worked for me with Sprout was to lie on the bed in the middle and wait until she fell asleep on me, then shuffty over and roll her onto the warm spot I had made. She got used to that and then I used to put her straight on the bed but stay with her touching or cuddled round her. But then she always transfered to her basket pretty easily too so it might not work for you if Biteybach is a light sleeper. Now I have the opposite problem and its sometimes hard to get her to nap for long anywhere other than her own bed!

An HV told my friend she was FF her baby too much quantity and was 'giving him stomach ache/ its your fault hes in pain' she followed the advice to give a reduced amount for 2 days while her baby screamed in hunger until she realised it was BOLLOCKS! The next HV she saw apologised for such crap advice and had the grace to look ashamed for her colleague. Turns out he was intolerant to that particular formula. GAH!

Can I just say that I am lucky, my HV is very sweet and is not the bossy or forceful type.

I think patterns just change on their own moo I really do. Artie needed help to sleep in the day for months and months, and then suddenly he self settled for naps. Nothing we did, he just did it on his own. I also don?t agree with being baby lead if your health or wellbeing is suffering for it, you can be somewhere inbetween, no? In fact I did force Artie into a routine as I knew he needed to sleep at certain times so I made sure he did ? it just happened that I helped him to sleep in various different ways - so I?m not actually that baby led at all if you look at it that way. What I?ve found to be consistent is that just when you think you have something sorted, they change it. Artie has started randomly self settling at bedtime again after 4 weeks of refusing to go to sleep anywhere than in my arms and being put down asleep. Night before last, I fed him, gave him a cuddle, expecting him to fall asleep. A min later he?s still staring at me, so I put him in his cot. Literally 10 seconds later, fast asleep. Same again tonight.

mrbitey Artie has never once slept in his cot in the day, I never bothered trying as I knew that I was going back to work when he was 7m so he?d have to get used to sleeping somewhere else. Also I preferred him to sleep in different places so we never got to the stage of him being only able to sleep in his cot - I didn?t want to be tied to the house at nap times! People who let their babies get so upset they vomit make me cross.

I certainly don?t talk about it to ?get at? anyone, I just think it?s a really interesting topic of discussion, I think it?s great we have this debate though, because if it proves anything, its that there is no ?right? answer, and each of us just does what works for us as a family, and hopefully newcomers or lurkers will be able to look at all our different approaches and pick one or a combination of ones that applies to them. And then if it stops working, change it.