Jelly and ice-cream and candle shopping here we come for our amazing ONE year olds!

[beaditAli]

Hope this covers it! Not sure what cakes we'd all be making so kept that out

Yes Debs I've read all sorts online and spoke to my gp and the consultant at Jack's allergy appointment..... he advised strongly against declining MMR and said all the p'atricians and c'tants he knew with DCs had all given it. Also said he didn't believe there was any credible evidence to suggest it's harmful and that the single jabs are proven to be less effective.
I know the mere mention of Andrew Wakefield will send steam out some people's eyes but weren't the reasons his finding were discredited a little suspect??? His wife was a child minder and he used some of the minded children in his studies so therefore those particular case studies were wiped out. I wonder if all his case studied children had been selected the same way if different things might have been thought of his research?
There's heaps more n this I know......... it's just such a toughy.

Louis is having his MMR tomorrow beadit. I don't think you're mad for declining the jabs Debs, but I do disagree with you (Sorry, I really don't want to cause a fight and I can't even begin to understand what you must have gone through with your DS). The "link" between MMR and autism was proposed by ONE paper back in 1998. Since then the paper has been discredited, retracted by the Lancet who published it and the main author behind it was actually struck off for dishonesty and unethical behaviour. There have been a whole load of other studies since then which have found no link, and in countries where the MMR was stopped in favour of the single vaccines because of the scare, there has been no corresponding drop in the rates of autism. There have however, been increases in the rates of the diseases (due to the delay the child getting immunity from all three diseases). There are known risks with the vaccine (as there are with almost all medical treatments, including the single vaccines) but they are much less than the risks of serious complications from measles especially. I don't want to criticise anyone who has informed themself, and then made the decision that they believe is right for their family, but I strongly believe that a lot of damage has been done by one very poor quality study and a whole load of highly irresponsible reporting. (Not just to those who have unnecessarily caught M,M or R, but also in making parents whose children have autism think that a decision they made might have caused it).

I found this really interesting and easy to get your head around if anyone wants a read??

Thanks maples really helps to hear views from parents that are 100% in their decision making
Am I right in thinking that if there's history of bowel disease in your family you might be more concerned to give the MMR??

mapletrees yes, i saw the good news late last night after someone posted it on the oct 11 thread. so pleased for her. hopefully whatever is wrong is less serious than edwards.

my stance with regards to MMR can be complicated if i wanted it to be, ie, we could go into all the unethical (but does that mean not proven) or read testaments from mothers whose children changed overnight. but in simple terms my reason for giving mine the single jabs or just that im not convinced by either argument completely and why stress myself out about it for the sake of a few hundred quid. i want piece of mind and having the single jabs gives me that. i think its slightly harder for me and even more so for debs because i had a child needing the mmr at the absolute height of all the hysteria and obviously debs has experience of autism. so maybe we arent completely rarional or clincial about our decision. but that sounds like you beadit cos of the egg allergy.
unfortunately though there is a dilema for those with boys . the manufacturer of the mumps jab has stopped making it in the single dose. i need to speak to someone before i make my decision 100% cos i would hate for my decision to cause him to get it and risk infertility.

Happy birthday Maria-Ann, hope you've all had a fab day.

My day has been awful, won't bore you all but I'm soooo tired and have to go to preschool committee meeting tonight.

I said before that I the paper that was published initially about the MMR and autism was total rubbish and I had ds1 vaccinated and will Luke. Have to say I had a few seconds of dread but I think that's natural with anything you are doing related to children that has multiple opinions. I don't know about the optimisation of timings, ds1 had his at 13 months and booster at 3 1/2yrs but hasn't been in contact with any of the diseases so no idea if it was effective or not!

Fish fingers, chips and beans tonight not enough energy for anything else! I feel guilty but that boys will be happy!

I'm heading more toward the triple than separate jabs. Am I right in thinking that the UK has no separate MMR vaccine? Nor does France? And that the only thing offered to children given the separates earlier in life is the MMR all in one at 3.5ish as a booster? So they'd be having it anyway???

The Times has a very good archived article that's kept me busy this afternoon.

Andrew Wakefield is still practicing in the USA gathering lots of supporters for his findings and separate jabs. I don't know that I'd call his findings total rubbish. I do though appreciate that members of the GMC aren't discredited by so many peers and for so many different reasons for nothing.
Anyway....... I know it's so tricky discussing this as it's something we all have to do with a great deal of thought.
cinnamon we just had dirty pie and peas for t!! nom nom nom

i think the article from the times you linked says that the gmc are/where discrediting him for his ethics and not for the findings. makes me think- why is that? too be truthful i cant say i believe with utter conviction that his findings werent altered, skewed, falsified even. its not really about that for me. its about the what if? scientists gave cows meat when they are herbivores and we ended up with mad cows diease, they tell us all the time that gendtically modified foods are safe, and they are divided on globally warming. they're not gods. they get it wrong. its all about what you feel comfortable and right with doing. i think deep down that it would probably be fine if mine had it, but i just cant bring myself to do it........just incase. poor dp may need a 2nd job to pay for the single jabs though! ha.

sorry that wasnt supposed to say scientists gave cows meat. i mean the food agency type people. im thinking it wasnt just some random farmers who did it off their own backs- is what i mean!

beadit they have single jabs for measles and rubella. but only some doctors to it. dont think anyone has the mumps one. this gives a bit of information about it and a list of the docs who adminster the single jabs.

jabs

I see what you're saying sassy34264 by you could say that about anything. Personally I can't see it is EVER a good idea to feed a herbivore meat especially the kind of meat product they were using but how many people knew about it before BSE was discovered. But with drugs there are many that are on the Market an later removed, serious ones like thalidamide and less so like hrt, and at the end of the day drug companies are trying to make money and do rush thugs through with calculated risk. We have to trust in them with many things we take and things change all the time and new findings change who/if drugs are available. Some people don't have any jabs but the majority have all and those that don't often only leave out MMR and it's not because of what if's or not trusting scuentists, it's that they are worried about a piece of research that was massively flawed. I think it's sad that people, many of whom are not reading as much as you but just being frightened, are not giving their children the jabs and don't realise they are risking other disabilities/problems if their children catch measles, mumps or rubella. I totally respect your views though and I know one person in rl who had single jabs for her son but not sure about booster beaditAli.

Happy Birthday to Jack and Maria-Anne. Hope u had a super smashing fun time.

Off on my best friends hen w'end on Friday which I have organised. Really looking forward to it but am dreading being apart from Harlyn for two whole days. There's gona be 3 pregnant girls there and 3 of us with young babies so at least I'll have enty of shoulders to cry on when the withdrawals kick in. I am hoping for a nice lie in though.

i wouldnt let chloe have the cervical cancer jab either cinnamon despite what is happening to sil. i hate them having all jabs really but i am totally for vaccination in general and completely understand the magnitude of the health benefits they provide us (not sure if thats the right way to frame it, but its late and im pregnant!)
its only if i read something or hear something (reports of paralysis with regards to cervical jab etc) that i read and make a decision, otherwise i just trust like you say and have blind faith. ive told you this before but i studied research methods for 5 years in total. 2 at a level and 3 at degree level and i know how they can sometimes show the results to match there hypothesis. for example, i think there is research to show that over 90% of heroin users started off on cannabis. the conclusion can be made that cannabis therefore leads to heroin. but 90% of cannabis users may never turn to heroin. its only within the 10% of those that do that over 90% started off as cannabis users-iyswim. you could do some research and show that the majority of them use pink toilet paper or have more than 2 siblings- it actually means bugger all really.
definately dont misunderstand me though, im not for or against. i dont wish to convince anyone either way. im just stating my view cos beadit asked us too. i have no vested interest either way. all my friends have give it there children without any problems. its just my worry wortness coming through! plus my cynical side to do with professionals/experts.

ps- whats a dirty pie???

Happy Birthday Maria Ann

Cant believe about that poor woman and what she has been through. My friend here had a baby in July and was told immediately that she had ds. They spent a week adjusting to it and trying to take it all in only to find out it was a mistake and she is not downs. Its a bit strange that they would say these things when nothing is definite until the chromosomal tests are back etc. Still alls well that ends well!!
Phoebe is the big ONE tomorrow! Cannot believe it - where did time go? Wont be up to much tomorrow - a few buns and that is it - celebrating with the grannies on Sunday and hoping if weather holds out to do something nice on Saturday.
On the vaccine debate. I have had this out with my gp so many times and the final debate was along the lines of....link to autism is tentative at best so if there is a threat its slim whereas there is a very real threat from these diseases. At the time there was an outbreak of TB in a playschool in cork city too so that kind of made my mind up!!

Thanks so much cinnamon and sassy it really does help reading your posts as any real life person I speak to pretty much just avoid the subject.
A dirty pie in this house is one smothered with gravy and not a veggie in sight! [licking lips]

I can't help thinking that the MMR is totally safe for the vast majority and there are unfortunately the odd cases where it does react badly and cause problems but they are almost like the ginuea pigs of science to hide] also there are bound to be children who were/are at increased risk anyway and we'd never have known.

I'll get off the subject now tho as I appreciate I have to be brave and a decision myself........ thanks tho for all your help!

sassy still think boy!!! when are you due?

Oh Beadit you opened a can of worms here. Autism can be caused by so many things and the medical society at large are pretty ignorant of the causes and associated symptoms and how to alleviate them. I have gone down the lines of ds is autistic so maybe in my genes I carry something which could predispose my kids to autism. Therefore I will shy away from things which may cause autism or have an impact on it's severity. Unfortunately you learn new things all the time and if I had found out earlier I would of not had any jabs for them, it isn't just the MMR which has been controversial.
Luckily dd2 seems to be nt with no autistic traits but Lucy is scarily similar to ds at this age so we are watching and seeing with her.
As you say Beadit it is a decision to be made by parents alone, you have to trust your own judgement.

beadit 26 oct. im 35+1 today. i thought girl originally, but im thinking boy now- have been doing for weeks. got a consultant appointment at 36 so next wed to have another growth scan, check in with the useless diabetic team and speak to the consultant with regards to my choice of birth. i know a c section would be the easiest option in terms of birth- esp as they are already estimating it at 6 1/2lbs at 34. but its the afterwards that im bothered about. i cant see me not picking the twins up for 6 weeks. its just not going to happen. and im bloody DESPERATE to get back training. im going to book the sept northwest trialthon for next year as my incentive and im gonna beat my last time.

she says as she prepares for the mammoth 30min walk to the chemist and 30min walk back. its a 10min walk for everyone else. i need some ferrograd tablets desperately. they gave the prescription a week ago and ive not got round to going, but exhaustion isnt the word at the minute. ive slept for 2 hours today while babies slept. heard jacob wake up but couldnt move and the poor thing had no choice but to go back to sleep. he could have been crying for ages, i wouldnt know through sleeping in a fog.

going to make it a bit enjoyable by buying chocolate on the way back.

Sassy 6 1/2lbs at 34 weeks isn't too huge. Was Chloe bigger then the twins? My dd1 was 8lb8 which after seeing Lucy was huge but not big. the girl in the next bed to Lucy had a 9+lber and he was double Lucy's length.
Have they said you definitely got diabetes, and if so are you on tablets yet?

I know how you feel with the energy, with dd2 I used to take an hour to walk to shops and back which was 5 mins away.

Lucy has finally dropped off for a sleep so I should get a couple of hours peace, although dd2 will probably wake her

debs chloe was 9lb 12oz, the twins combined weight was bigger at 14lbs. but individually they were a lot smaller.
i had a gtt and i was 0.1 over on the fasting test and under on the sugar test. but ive still got to trawl my ass on 2 buses or trains every 2 weeks. only consulation is that i get scanned every time. ive never needed tablets, although they do prescribe me them - just in case they say. i havent changed my diet at all. i couldnt sleep the other night and came downstairs at midnight and finished off the mint choc icecream more than half a tub and my sugars were fine in the morning before breakfast.

bought a cooked chicken from co op cos im too tired to cook! should peel some potatoes but it might just have to go with oven chips for me and chloe. babies can have the last steam veg pack.

Your scores are very marginal Sassy that could be just put down to what you had to eat the night before.
Mine with dd2 were hugely over what they wanted and lukily I didn't need tablets but with Lucy they even had to increase the dosage on me. If you are doing fine with your sugar readings then you should be able to go to at least 38 weeks before they try to induce. Natural would be best it just depends how they treat GD at your hospital. I wouldn't want a c-sec and have a newbi and twins to look after. Still your body and I remember with dd1 that feeling of wanting the baby out.

Happy birthday Phoebe and Flynn, hope you've both had wonderful days!

Took ds1 to gymnastics tonight and he loved it plus was pretty good! Luke spent the whole time trying to break through the gate to get to the fun!!

oops missed that! thanks for the reminder cinnamon

happy birthday to phoebe and flynn. hope they enjoyed their day. x

i'm torn between vb and c sec for different reasons debs but im adamant about inducing- hell no. would head straight for the c sec after chloe's birth experience.