March 2010. A lesson for much of life: Shut the door. Find the corkscrew.

[Arcadie]

Happy Christmas MMMs. This is my gift to you!

Also, ignore my typos. Many thanks!

And, uh, can I have a 'me, me, me' moment to vent/seek advice (partic from pd or any one else with experience of this)

So. I've literally got stress coming out of my earballs, I have five seperate issues (two of which are pretty huge) and now another one has become apparent to me three days ago (and it's this one that I'm gonna moan talk about)

DD hasn't been eating very much for the last few weeks. She has always, always had the heartiest of appetites (like me!) and also like me, was still blessed to eat pretty much as she liked and stay between a size 8-10. As you may recall(!!) I've been struggling with ms and I've really not been cooking although the fridge and freezer is always stocked with stuff for the kids (and been ordering in pizza at least once a week!) but I noticed DD wasn't really eating much but she said she just wasn't very hungry.

The last three days, I guess connected to the fact my ms is improving/improved by the permaSeaBands I've been more, uh, inquisitive and yesterday and the day before I actually asked her what she'd eaten when she got in in the evening to which she replied 'Nothing'. Two days ago I ordered pizza a crap load of side dishes all of which I know she likes and told her I don't expect her to eat much (recognising when you dont eat for a while, stomach shrinks) but that she needed to try... she ate one piece of garlic bread (and a small croissant I made her before ordering it). She whined for ages after it had made her feel sick.

I got a bit cross (wrong, I know, but I'm all over the shop lately) spouting stuff at her about how her brain chemistry will change and she's risking her exams as she can't function with no food. She got surly (very unusual for her) saying that she wasn't stupid and knew that, that she's not doing it on purpose and not trying to lose weight.

But she has lost - at least a dress size and is now more of a 6-8 imo. She looks pale and ill. I didn't really notice until the other day - I feel pretty crap about it.

She ate nothing other than half a yoghurt yesterday night. I got angry again (I know I shouldn't - I can't seem to help it ). I'm going to take her to the dr next week (half term) in case there is a physical problem but I'm just really scared she's become anorexic without me even noticing. I feel like a pretty shite mother right now.

Very quickly as trying to ruin make a birthday cake for DD's birthday tomorrow (cried when I bought ingredients/card/presents - am an emotional wreck)

scooby just sounds like a really stressful situation. Second manda about seeking a bit of help for dealign with the stress. Also have you spoken to an employment lawyer? There's someone who posted on a recent thread in 'pregnancy' about taking mat leave for a year who is an employment lawyer - maybe you could message them?

manda you poor thing - it's a bit all at once isn't it. I haven't got direct experience with this but know that you are a wonderful mother so will have spotted this at an appropriate time. Perhaps you could talk to DD not at meal time, at a quiet time with just the 2 of you and gently ask her about why she isn't eating much and take it from there?

Fliss I used to be rebeccacad but am a crap poster so swing in from time to time and expect everyone to remember me.

Flip sounds like a good decision on IVF - I'm a 'hurtle along at a million miles an hour' kind of person and so I know it can be hard to put the brakes on something, but well done.

Sorry to everyone I've missed. Back to the grindstone oven.

Oh an almost exactly to the hour a year ago today I was posting to let you all know my waters had broken at 37 +4. Sniff sob.

May I congratulate Pixie on making the Talk round up again

Manda Taking DD to the GP is a good idea. Could it be exam stress causing her not to eat (as opposed to anorexia) I wonder?

That's a hat trick for our pixie isn't it?

Yeah, fliss I'm hoping it's stress. But even starting off not actually meaning to not eat can turn into it eventually as your brain chemistry changes and your stomach shrinks. I text her this morning when she was at school that I wouldn't be letting her out with her friends this weekend as after three days of not eating she'd be close to collapse (exaggerating, possibly, a little to make my point) She had a half day and got home about 2pm and as soon as she got in I made her a sandwich to which she protested she'd already eaten and I could call either her friend or boyfriend to check. When I asked what, it turns out it was half a small portion of chips. My istinct says if she was trying to lose weight would she be choosing chips? I think no, but obviously can't be sure. Anyway, I gave her half the sandwich and she ate that. THen she had a meal replacement shake thing early evening. I told her I'd like he to eat something else but she still feels sick from earlier and although she knows it's not enough she said 'it's much more than nothing'. I dont wanna force too much food on her.

James has just woken, so I'm off...

Hey all- Squiggly ur not the only emotional wreck! I am not ready for my last baby to be one! :)

have baked chocolate cake, wrapped gifts, written card but it still doesnt seem like a yr has passed already!

Happy birthday for Mini Squiggly! tomorrow x

manda cant help either but hope u and dd get to the docs and all is well- u are a fab mother and please dont think other wise x

Manda, here are my thoughts (and I am really and truly no specialist on the subject of eating disorders - they scare me ): I think teenager before important exams are under huge pressure and some will react with eating less/nothing. Others will overeat, get drunk, pick fights, stay out, revise too much, won't revise at all etc etc. So, yes, your DD not eating may all be part of the 'normal' exam stress (for the record: IMO there is a ridiculous amount of pressure on young people and I am not convinced that pressure is necessarily how you get the best out of people , but that's for another thread).
Or it may not be. Difficult to know (and impossible from a distance). It will all depend on her motivation why she is not eating, how long she has not been eating and how secretive she is about it.
FWIW, the same 'rules' as trying to get fussy toddlers to eat kind of apply: do not let eating become a battlefield. Don't have her be defensive about whether/what/when she ate be the first things she feels every time she sees you. Maybe make sure that what she does eat counts ie is calorific AND good for her? Peanutbutter sandwich? With jam ? Cream on everything? Full fat milk on cereal?

If she gets on well with your GP a visit may be worthwhile if she is keen/happy to go. I would not put more pressure on her. Just offer her support and chocolate food.

And I would ditch the meal replacement drinks - they are for losing weight... Make her a banana/vanilla ice cream milkshake instead .

HTH a bit.

Pixie, congrats on making the round-up again - how did I miss your MN car stickers thread?? V funny indeeed .

scooby, 'tis just crap. Sorry nothing constructive to add. Hope you win the Euromillions .

Oh, and more birthdays coming up
Joe wore denim dungerees today and stood without holding on, looking up at me, and just totally looked like a little boy . Yes, our babies are growing up

Hope you all have a nice start to the weekend.

manda, I can understand why you're worried. Doctors as soon as possible sounds sensible. If - if - there is a problem it must make sense to try to nip it in the bud before it gets too big. Two of my best friends suffered from bulimia as teenagers/young twenty somethings and, in retrospect, one of the things that allowed the situation to continue and get worse was other people (parents and friends) pretending - almost colluding - that there wasn't a problem. I don't say this to scare you - you sound like you're thinking about it sensibly anyway - but, rather, just because I don't want anyone to make the same mistake that I did. (Although, happily, both my friends are now fine.) IIRC I got some useful literature on eating disorders from my university counselling service. Maybe your GP, or even your DD's school, would have something similar.

Happy Birthday for tomorrow for DS2, sarah. No, it doesn't at all seem like a year has passed. Who knew that a year could go so quickly .

I've survived my first week (3 days) back at work. Not enjoyed it though - and don't think it's all to do with the fact that I've returned from mat leave. The commute is hard (almost 2 hours each way), the attitude of one boss is irksome and the good intentions of another are, I fear, nothing more than good intentions and...and...oh, I could go on - but I won't. i will, though, just ask if any of you would say that you ascribe a significant amount of self-esteem to your job. I met some friends this evening and one of them raised this question. She says she does get a good portion of her self-esteem from her job. I had to say I got none. And that shocked me. It's true, though. Didn't used to be but it is now. It's time to move on, isn't it?

Sorry if any/all of that sounded garbled: I have had two whole glasses of wine. And not small ones either .

Oh, DS is much better, Fliss, even if his appetite isn't. DH has done sterling work on washing sheets, duvet covers, duvets, pillows etc. And, touch wood, no one else has caught it.

Thank you all so much for your kind words, encouragement and advice. I know we've all said it many times but I'm truly grateful to be a MMM.

I got her to eat a pain au chocoate last night without too much fuss

'I don't want anything'
'I know, but we need to kick start your appetite again, y'know, get moving back in the right direction so what do you want? Something sweet? Pain au chocolate? Or savoury? Cheese and crackers? Something else?
' ---- '
'DD?'
'What?'
'Which? Pain?'

When I handed it to her, I'd cut it into three so it didn't seem so 'pow!' (they're big ones) and literally a minute later I looked up to say to her that she didn't have to eat it all if she didn't want to but it was almost gone so I kept schtum!

I feel much better about things today - not only for voicing my fears here and feeling supported, but because I know she definitely ate something yesterday, albeit still not very much, but with minimal coercion. I will still be taking her to the doctors unless there is a vast improvement in a couple of days - optimistic? Y'never know, I guess. Kids have a way of surprising us at every turn even when we know them inside out.

THank you all again
(still feeling sicky!)

Another quick post to say Happy Birthday to babywriggler and sarah's DS. I still can't believe we have one-year-olds already!

scooby I'm sorry your boss being so infuriatingly rubbish. I gope you resolve the situation or find something better soon.

Manda you've had lots of good advice already, but I'm nodding in agreement with Pacific in particular (as is often the case ). Agree that even if it is just stress, it could turn into something more permanent though (and eating disorders can often be as much about control as about body image). Forcing her to eat will only make things worse. Be supportive, talk to her if she need/wantss it, and have plenty of high-calorie low-effort snacks that she can grab when she feels like it.

Sariska sorry work's not great but glad you survived.

Must dash as we're off to the shops today (central London on a Saturday; must be mad). SIL is visiting.

to everyone else :)

gope? hope, ovbiously!

Happy birthday to Elliott and BabySquiggler - hope you all have a lovely, happy day!

stumbles into thread after a very, very late night to announce a miracle, yes you read correctly a miracle. Baby G had no booby milk last night!!!!!!
She went to bed at 7pm with a very small booby feed, she woke at 3am when I was evicting our dinner guests in the politest manner I could. I gave her calpol as she has been teething and she had a bright red cheek and was grabbing at her ear. She woke again at 4.30 I shushed and patted and put her back down, I had to go back again and repeat then she woke again at 7.50am.
So if I hadn't had riotious dinner guests who wouldn't leave the house I might have actually managed a decent nights sleep. I thought there was no end in sight of night feeds and I now have a glimmer of hope. I am shattered though. DH is still in bed. I fully intend to hop back in the instant he surfaces.
Happy Birthday to squiggly's LO and sarahs LO.
manda I'm pleased the MMMs have been able to offer you sensible advice regarding DD. I agree with all the advice especially the 'not making it a battle' one otherwise she will just end up lying to you about what she has eaten . I know that if I am stressed then I do the opposite - I am a real comfort eater.
scooby I'm so cross for you and wish we could do more to help you. I do like manda's suggestion of going to the GP and being signed off. Can the Grandparents help in anyway?
Oh I know what I was going to ask? How is operation GROMT going? I am not losing any weight but I now I am definitely toning up. I haven't had my official measuring thing after a month but that must be quite soon. My clothes are feeling better and my tummy isn't so wobbly. As I'm still BF I have convinced myself that my body will be wanting to store some fat to make the milk - is that right or I am just making myself feel better? Also muscle weighs more than fat right? or is that another urban myth?

oh and I forgot to say the other day if anyone wants to order from our site put mumsnet in the box and get free delivery
and sariska I'm glad you have 'survived' your first week but I agree sounds like you do need to move on

Happy Birthday Sarah's DS E. and BabySquiggler

xxx

Sorry I have been lurking rather than posting lately, being back at work makes the weeks fly by add that to the stress of trying to move house and I havent had much of a chance to post. Anyhoo, DS off at his GP's for the weekend, the first time I have been away from him over night!!! Enjoying the peace and quiet TBH! I shouldn't spend it MNing though as supposed to be 'us' time for me and DH

Just wanted to say Happy Birthday to the OMG ONE YEAR OLDS!!!

And to say to manda that I have personal experience of having an eating disorder at your DD's age, I am not saying she has one just that for me although it started with a desire to lose weight (I was a chubby ish teen) it was really about control. I had come out of a bad relationship with an older guy and was putting huge amounts of pressure on myself with my exams and looking back it was the one thing I could control. My mum took the softly softly approach with me and never challenged what I had eaten. I am not sure if this helped or not, it certainly didnt make me eat. I think you are doing the right thing in trying to encourage but agree with the others that it mustn't turn into a battlefield. Unless you have a particularly good GP (sorry PD) I am not sure they really have a handle on how to deal with this sort of thing as a general rule. after all they cant just write a prescription. Getting someone like a family friend who is close in age that she respects to talk to her might be an option?

It is a really tricky one as negative comments about how thin you look can act as encouragement to the mind of someone with eating issues.

My advice FWIW would be that if you have bathroom scales in the house - bin them. If you suspect that it could be about control rather than just stress related then you may need to get to the bottom of why she feels 'out of control' in other aspects of her life.

IMO getting her to eat 'healthy' food might be better than just getting calories into her. IF she has an issue with food like I did, I just used to 'trade off' the calories from eating something like pizza with missing the next meal. so perhaps encouraging less calorific stuff may be the way to get her to eat more frequently IYSWIM. Just my experience nothing more, dont profess to be any sort of expert.

Finally, just wanted to say you are clearly a fabulous mum and she is very lucky that you care so much that you have noticed this very early on.

Sorry for waffling, must get back to DH!

Waves to everyone else.

In the middle of catching up but just had to stop and comment on Siamese's video I liked it! He is h.o.t. It almost made me wish I was wearing maternity bras again ok, it made me wish I'd splashed on a nicer couple of bras while I was bf!

As you were.

Sending birthday wishes to Squiggly's DD and Sarah's DS (and I've just come back from a one year old's party )

manda you've had lots of wise words of advice, and I'm glad you're communicating with your DD about things but agree it shouldn't become a battlefield etc. You're a wonderful mum, and chances are this is just a blip due to stress. It's definitely not related to anything you're doing or not doing as a parent. And I wouldn't worry too much about brain chemistry and shrinking stomachs and all that, as teenage brains are still growing and developing (on the subject of teenage brains, I'm reading a fascinating book called Nurture Shock at the moment and it has some v v interesting stuff about children and teenagers lying, amongst other fascinating stuff...but I digress!). I had my own eating issues as a teenager (initially started as weight loss, but very quickly became about control) and was quite a pro at lying about what I ate, appearing to eat when I wasn't, and making myself sick if I was "made" to eat anything (eg a family dinner). It was probably linked to high achievement and the stress I put myself under (academically, socially, athletically), as well dealing with the unresolved grief and guilt about my father dying when I was 8. It was certainly not anything to do with my amazing mum. I'd tend to think that healthy food choices would be better than high-calorie snacky things, something like low-GI choices (eg a slice of multi-grain low GI bread with peanut butter or fat free Greek yogurt with fruit). I'd also tend to agree with Ang that the GP may not be a massive help (again, sorry to PD but my own GP is quite rubbish!). I'd think it may be more useful for you to go to the GP to discuss it first, and see what advice or literature there is. Then, if your DD is willing, she can go along herself separately. And the suggestion to bin any scales is a great one!

Scooby I think Manda's suggestion to get signed off is a good one. Really hope things get sorted soon.

Sariska interesting point about self-esteem and working. I've always tried to keep my self-esteem separate from work, in that I don't live to work, I work to live iykwim. Having said that, I'm quite looking forward to going back to work and using my brain (I think dealing with colleagues is going to be a damn sight easier than dealing with a small child all day! But mainly I'm looking forward to having a salary again...)

OK, ramble over, got to head off but hope everyone's having a good weekend

Also happy birthday 1 year olds!! And I hope dd gets her normal appetite back soon manda.

Utterly, utterly shattered here today. Have 'hit the wall' so to speak after a physically and mentally demanding week. Today been reasonably relaxing so far, though and I think dh sense my shattered-ness and is being nice.

sariska i had a hard time at work only a couple of years ago and found my self-esteem an self confidence plummeted. I had really enjoyed the job and still gained a lot from it but after a point I knew it was not doing me much good mentally so I decided to move on. I don't know if that's exactly what you're talking about but that was my experience anyway. I'm sure you'll figure out what's right for you.

Elliott has had a fab birthday- lots of gifts and lovely cards, and the biggest chocolate cake any one yr old can have!

thanks for all the birthday wishes, will catch up tomorrow x