Dec 2007 - Little People, Large Strops

[strandedatseasonsgreetings]

Will this do everyone?

Skid is there any way you could take up the offer but have a back up plan in the back of your mind if you find it too hard after a couple of days? I must be a terrible Mum cos I'm planning 8 full days away from the DDs in November again...trip to Angkor Wat and Penang in the planning currently. It is definitely VERY weird when you are away from kids for the first time, but personally I have found it fine so long as I've got plenty of distractions. I think the key is plan all the things you will do when they're away otherwise you might find yourself moping around thinking "OK what shall I do now?" I felt a bit like this last weekend when DD1 was staying with her cousin (ex-H's neice) for 2 nights - I'm so used to having her around in the evenings for company now!

I really like that we're honest on here. I think its the reason this thread has lasted so long actually. You guys and the exNM are still the only ones that know about my "op" last Jan for example.

Speaking of which I think we'll be fine in Rarotonga together. We might end up doing quite a bit separately. I'm happy for example to have his DD while he takes his DS off mountain biking for example if he can take my DDs for a bit so I can go to the markets or maybe have a spa treatment! The only thing I'm slightly worried about is the mossies there - note to self to get some deet insect repellent this week. Last time I went to the Cook Islands (pre kids) I got really badly bitten, and DD2 reacts very badly to insect bites in general.

Clairey like skid says you shouldn't beat yourself up, especially as you're doing a fab job as a single parent. Its not the life any of us would choose for ourself given a choice :)

Clara, eek I haven't done a jot of proper study for 20 odd years now and have no desire to do so. Sounds like it came as a bit of a shock to you too?

I think I can honestly say I don't have a favourite between my DDs but I think that's because they are SO different - and because the age gap is so big. However I was saying to one of my colleagues today that having two is definitely a whole different experience to having one, and if he wants to have a relatively low-stress "family" experience I'd recommend sticking with an only child - am I being too harsh?! Maybe its the lone parent thing but it does seem a lot harder with 2 - the need to get two different friends to take them at weekends if I need some to myself for example, and the bickering...not that I would give up DD2 for the absolute universe if you get what I mean!

Thanks for the feedback re: week away. I have decided I am going to go for it. Since I decided I have been hugging all 3 DC almost constantly and telling them how much I love them. Wierd how even thinking about being away from them makes me appreciate them more.

buzzy - not being harsh at all re 1 vs. 2 DC. I often hark back to how 'easy' it was with just 2. Sometimes I kind of wish I only had 2 except that then I would not have my beautiful DS2 who is an absolute joy. So i think it makes sense to wish for fewer DC and an easier life while never ever wanting to be without any of them.

Eek eek eek have been asked out by a man. Friend of friend...have met him once at a bbq and am friends with him on fb. Nice enough but lack of fancying on my part. Eek! Don't know what to do...

Skid I do that when the dc are going to exh, then am nice to them for a couple of hours after they get back before I revert to cross mummy Hope you manage to enjoy the week as well as getting your work done.

I sometimes worry that ds is my favourite but I think it's just that he needs me so much more than dd does and because he is so affectionate and cuddley. DD very rarely cuddles me and I think cuddles get the endorphins going and so its easier to feel love towards a cuddley one. I don't actually love him any more than dd but get that rush of 'oh I love you' more often because he hugs and kisses me all the time. I wouldn't be able to choose between them in a fire though!

ooh give me initials clairey and I'll have a look on fb - my advice would be to SAY YES and see what happens... how exciting!!!

Oh yes Clairey definitely go on the date but keep it casual - and don't feel obliged to see him again if the spark definitely still isn't there at the end of the date.
I totally agree with you about the cuddles and wonder if that is what it is with me too as I get a LOT more cuddles and kisses from dd2 than dd1, who now doesn't even particularly like a kiss at the school gate (already! ). The fire thing sends a shiver down my spine, I never really understood Sophie's Choice before I had children. Now I don't think I could watch/read it again.

Initials are sp skid

Hmmm I did post yesterday but it is not there!

FO - well done your DD, and good luck with your date, hope it goes well!

Skidd - I'm not the best person to ask as DS has only been away from me for one night! But Buzzy's advice seems very sensible.

I think DS's behaviour is improving, getting less meltdowns now.

had a peek - he looks nice - go for it girl

also agree about cuddles - makes me feel a bit better actually as they def get cuddles less with age

meant to say about my trip - can't have a back-up plan as DH has said it's fine for me to stay but not OK for me to pay £350 to go over for two days if I am missing them as we are skint - which is totally fair enough but means I will have to survive a whole week whatever, gulp

BT glad DS is doing well. Also saw you got your first smile from Cara - how lovely

dd1 at sports camp (for the day only)
dd2 on sofa with poorly tummy.
me knackered - huge row with dh last night, we have them every so often. He blames my PMT. I blame him for being an arsehole.
Off to google PMT. wondering if I need to stop taking the pill (which I use purely to regulate my periods after they started going awry). Even considering asking gp about anti-depressants. Generally I am not unhappy (much happier than when in SL) but I do feel tired a lot and NO sex drive AT ALL.
Blah.

clara
I saw on fb that you had been up all night so i'm sure lack of sleep is a huge factor. Looking after two children all day is utterly exhausting and draining, and not feeling supported (if that was involved in your argument with DH) is also really hard. Plus you have all this work to do for your course - of course you're feeling it.

Do you think it's PMT? Maybe seeing your GP might be a good idea? S/he could help with PMT/depression, and/or give you info on support available. How about some counselling? Didn't you find that helpful before you went to SL?

Please come and rant on here if it helps (I am 'working' all day so will be checking MN online regularly)

Thanks Skid. My googling has told me that it could be PMT. Or mild depression. Or perimenipause. Or combination of all! And probably tiredness too....I did like the counselling. But. It's so expensive and we just don't have the spare cash anymore, what with all the cuts/price increases. It feels very indulgent now. I told dh last night that we might be better off together than apart. I think he thinks he is supporting me and of course in many ways he is. But sometimes the idea of what is supporting is different for different people. He's not good at communicating and I'm probably not good at telling him when something is pissing me off so keep it to myself until I blow my top. The arguement last night was stupid. I won't go into detail but it comes down to him thinking we should still live our lives spontaneously like he used to when he was childless (note: so that he can go paragliding at the last minute if the weather is right) and me preferring to organise things so that I am not sitting around all weekend with nothing to do.

clara - FWIW I don't think counselling/therapy is ever an indulgence - if it helps you to find peace/happiness/acceptance, then it is worth not going on holiday/having a car/buying nice stuff for the DC etc because everyone in the family will really benefit.

It sounds like your DH is not being very realistic about life with DC. Of course you have to organise, and it's not fair for him to want to go off and do something alone with no notice (on a rgular basis). Is he feeling down as well? Or has he always wanted to do this kind of thing?

Do you really think you'd be better off apart? Can you come up with a plan for trying to improve things? e.g. putting some weekend time aside every week for you to do something for yourself (and for him, but pre-planned), having an evening a week with no telly/internet, just the two of you having some wine and a chat etc

Sorry you're feeling rubbish

He's always been like this - paragliding is his passion and he sees it as his one way of holding on to the person he used to be. I wouldn't mind if we said twice a month for a morning you go off and do your thing, I'll take the children to a friends/my parents etc. But you can't plan it - it's totally weather dependent and sometimes even when he goes off for a morning he doesn't get to do it because the wind has changed so that doesn't really "count".
I agree with you about counselling but unfortunately dh doesn't, to him it's a waste of money. He has already said he wouldn't see a marriage counsellor. I know I shouldn't but because I don't earn money any more I don't feel I can spend the money on "myself".
We had a similar row a few weeks ago (probably, if PMT is part of the problem, 4 weeks ago!) and I then tried to instigate a "date" night but I am not really sure what to do. We had a nice cheese board and a DVD but I was too tired to understand the DVD (Syriana with George Clooney - don't ask me what it was all about!) and ended up going to bed early!
I thought he would then offer to organise something but hadn't and probably wouldn't if I hadn't said something last night - these things (along with all holidays, all nights out etc) are ALWAYS left to me. He CLAIMS he said he was going to get Chinese on Friday but I don't think he ever mentioned it out loud!
I feel bad writing all this as it's all so personal but I can't talk to anyone in RL about it.
Argh sorry for ranting and thanks for listening! I should be hanging out the washing/taking my broken shoes back to Next/posting my essay/interacting with dd2...

Do you think what we are going through is normal for a couple with small children? I have heard that sometimes a woman gets so much "tactile" time with her dc's she feels she doesn't need it so much from her dh, if that makes sense! What I want is people to go "oh yeah we went through times like that but we're fine now - marriage is like that!". I know lots of my friends have gone/are going through similar but apart from one I don't really talk about these things in detail. Also things can change really quickly - I'll probably be back here in a few days and say everything's ok again....it doesn't help that I never get a good nights sleep, it's either dd1 with her bad dreams (last night) or dd2 with her cold/bad tummy/bad dreams/lost dummy/insert any other random excuse for waking up or dh with his snoring or the seagulls at 5am or dd1 at 5.30am....

Sorry sorry sorry ranting again.

Hi Clara, sorry to hear things aren't great for you at the moment.

If communication is a problem then that love languages book arcadie gave me is good...obviously it didn't help us so you might be reluctant to take my word for it but it makes a lot of sense and I can see it would totally work if both of you wanted to make things work. More than happy to pass my copy on if you wanted to take a look.

WRT spontaneity, does he feel as though you are always saying you can't do stuff because of the dc? Or is it more that he just wants to go off and do stuff alone? Because you can kind of be spontaneous in a way that includes them (and you) eg have a vague plan so you don't wake up wondering what you are going to do all day but then see it's sunny outside and think forget that lets go to the beach or to tyntesfield or whatever...but it has to be something that benefits you all not him leaving you with nothing to do because he has decided to do something other than what you had planned. Does that make sense? Eg my friend's dh does a lot of mountain biking and quite often decides to go for a spur of the moment ride if the weather is good, but he arranges it so that friend and dc meet other friends and do something before they all meet for lunch and they then all spend the afternoon together.

Him doing it every now and then shouldn't be an issue really, as long as he is invested in family life the rest of the time and is just as happy to do stuff all together as he is on his own.

I have horrendous pmt btw, a couple of down days then a day of rage 1-2 days before I come on. I also get similar(without the rage) a couple of days before ovulation

X posted with you there... I do think a lot of it is normal yes. A lot of women seem to lose sex drive etc when the dc are little; tiredness, being on-call as mummy 24/7, the monotony of life etc all seem to be common factors. I think the danger is that it then becomes too normal not to want sex or to touch your partner and it becomes difficult to break out of that. So date nights etc are a good idea though they can feel a little forced and can add pressure...just cuddling up in the evening instead of siting on different sofas or a quick kiss as you/he wash up can also work to stop the gulf growing (but again hard to instigate if you are already pissed off about something).

Can you tell I spend a lot of time reading the relationships threads?? (obviously not my own advice because what the hell do I know? )

yes I think it is normal, I really do. A friend of mine with older DC has promised me my sex life will improve when my youngest is 6. She says she has three other friends who all went though the same and once the youngest was a bit older (and I guess less tactile), it all came good again. Looking forward to that day... (Have you seen this btw - made me cry - and have sex!)

But of course there is a lot more to this than sex. I have never been keen on forced 'date nights' either - but maybe just suggesting a bottle of wine and a chat every now and again? Also nights out on your own - are you into exercise class type things, or book club, evening class etc, and of course meeting friends for a drink - I definitely find I appreciate my DH more when I have a few nights away from him

Now I don't want to have a go at your DH but I think he is not being reasonable. Of course he should be able to pursue his hobby - and it is unfortunate that it has to be so spontaneous and obviously this is not his fault - but it doesn't sound like what you want/need is given the same priority. If he wants to go paragliding - something that you perhaps don't think is wildly important, fine, but you want some counselling and that is also fine. It's not fair to judge what you need as unimportant while disregarding your view of how he chooses to spend his time.

Oh god Skid that is sad, the link, could have been written by my dh (err except I don't go to the gym!). But it's so true, I am always too tired for sex in the evening and dd1 is always up too early for there to be any chance of it in the evening....
I have been thinking I need something to do by myself in the evening. I had half toyed with the idea of joining one of those fun netball leagues. A bookclub would also be a good idea if I could find one that doesn't consist of women I already know (eg all the school-run mums, love them all but we see SO much of each other already!). And I definitely think we need to get out more as a couple - it's just another thing I will have to organise. Thinking of asking my parents to have the dd's for two nights in the autumn so we can have a proper break - we have airmiles so might even be able to fly somewhere!!!
Clairey - I know the book you mean, I have read something recently (possibly in the pschycologies mag?)about different languages of love. It did resonate - we definitely show affection in different ways.
Anyway he called earlier and apologised for being OTT last night and of course I apologised so hopefully things will be a little better until the next blow up!
But I do think that sometimes you just have to get on with it and know that hopefully things will get better.
Thanks again for listening and so sorry for all my self-centred waffle today. x

Here's an interesting thread on this topic...wife has no libido

oh gosh that thread is depressing I'm sure my DH feels similarly

That's good he apologised. Maybe you can have a calm discussion tonight without getting angry with each other - suggest a break in the autumn, and try to come up with some solutions? I remember when we were all pg 4 years ago and you used to say how lovely and supportive your DH was - I'm sure you can get back to how it was

Stranded - sorry things are so tough for you, but with 2 young dcs and your course he just understand that are you are going to be tired - and 3-4yo down the line when dd2 is 6-7 he will have more opportunities to do his hobby while he is still fit enough as the dcs will be more independent of you! He is being a bit selfish expecting to be able to go off paragliding on a limb leaving you with nothing to do!
I agree about being less tactile with little ones, dd is 6weeks old and I really don't want DH cuddling me all the time, but strangely I would be up for some sex if I wasn't falling asleep by 10pm!!

How was last night clara? Did you have a chat?

Up for some sex at 6 weeks post-natal BT and [respect]!

BT - you go girl!
Things are ok, back to normal really - I feel more emotionally stable, he is hopeful that if he's nice to me we might have sex again soon!
I think marriage, especially with small children, is like this big secret. A bit like having children actually, no-one likes to talk about how bloody hard it is and it isn't all a bed of roses. If we all knew how hard it was, perhaps none of us would do it! (I blame Cinderella and co). Just discussing it and knowing that it's normal to feel like this some of the time helps. So thanks Skid and others, it is great to have somewhere to "sound off".

Glad things are feeling calmer stranded. It's so important to be able to talk about these things, even if it is to a bunch of random strangers (although I don;t really consider myself a stranger to you!) online!!
I am really bad at small talk and often get into conversations with frienda about their marriages/sex lives so don;t think of it as a secret - but it is certainly an issue. I really do think things will get easier as the DC get older.

Hope you have a great weekend (without any paragliding!)

We're going camping for the first time ever

Hi all, back from lovely warm week in Cook Islands :)

Sorry to hear you've been having a stressful time Clara, it does sound like you need to find a way to make this para-gliding thing workable for the whole family - what do you and the girls usually end up doing when he goes off spontaneously? Presumably its not free either? I agree with what others have said, if counselling works for you then surely money spent on that is just as important as money spent on what he enjoys?

Week away with ex-NM just went to prove that I don't fancy him at all and that is the fundamental issue that I don't think any amount of telling myself I'm being too superficial and judgemental of body shape etc will get around. Lesson learned for next time I guess. I also got rather annoyed by the way he teased the kids all week - just not my style. Oh well it was quite a relaxing holiday all in all and it was def easier having 2 adults even with 4 kids as I could wander down to the french bakery on my own in the mornings for example and leave him on beach with kids which was lovely.