Dec 08 Ladies - LIghtning Strikes... and the usual gossip!

[Beans33]

Hope this works for everyone - I'm assuming Summer won't give birth in the next few hours!! x

Hello all, quick insomnia post from me . i keep waking in the night hungry and as T's nights have been unpredictable (up last night 6 times, not at all tonight) I think I'm just not sleeping very deeply as I know I'll have to be up. Good training for newborn stuff though, at least I've never had teh chance to get used to a full night's sleep!

Great stuff about the steps LadyT you must feel so proud .

Have been v interested about the BF discussion, I have to say it never occurred to me not to and I was so totally convinced it was what I'd do that when I did run into trouble I was totally floored. I knew no one who FFed so no one to ask about how to do it (or to make me feel less guilty). My mum BF-ed me and my sister but I never really discussed it with her so I don't think that was a major factor. DP was FF and I think that did help in at least him not helping to pile on the guilt when I switched.

Can't remember if I posted about this or not but basically I called the estate agent to sound her out about the lowest offer the seller would take and she told me not to waste my time as they were about to de-instruct her! Apparently she's 'sold' the house twice before and kept the buyers hanging on for a few months (presumably having spent money on the survey too) before pulling out as she had nowhere to go. Apparently there's one street she wants to live on and wants to be able to move as soon as a house becomes available, but it never does. It really pissed me off that they allowed us to go through the whole offering process without telling us. And then we looked at 5 more places yesterday, none with any joy. Am a bit jaded about the whole business now but feel we need to press on as we'd like to find somewhere before teh mortgage offer runs out and before baby no.2 arrives. Sorry if I've already said this by the way!

WG that's a tricky one as I can totally see where you're coming from but am guilty of doing what your friend does with T (calling him a little fatty etc). Maybe I feel it's less loaded as he's a boy and Ihave every reason to assume he'll get thinner as he gets older but I could be way of mark there. My SIL struggls with this as she has two girl twins, one of whom is more heavily built than the other, which has always attracted comments from friends and family who probably don't mean to be hurtful but which really upset her. She always pulls people up on it and I can see how it would be even worse if you were always compared to the thinner sister, however well-intentioned the comments were. I guess the thing is to find a way of saying it - I think I'd struggle to just casually bring it up into conversation so I'd actually address is separately another time (along the lines of 'I just wanted to talk to you about something you said the other day...) and explain your reasons why. She'll probably feel bad but if she's a good friend it would probably be better for your friendship to say something rather than let it fester. She also might say something again in the future inadvertently that would cause a bigger reaction if you'd suppressed it the first time. I don't know, sorry i'm rambling and not making sense. I should go and try to get some sleep.

Hurrah for O! You must be thrilled, LadyT.

Spot at the seller. Hope you find something else even nicer with a seller that actually wants to move.

WG We have one of these seats which is adjustable so it doesn't wobble and yet easy to take off and on. It's not cheap, I know, but it is much better than the cheaper ones we tried.

WG: I think you are right to be annoyed at those comments. How to deal with it is another matter... I like Sybs' idea of insisting on neutral language round food - no disparaging comments but no praise for eating either. That way it doesn't sound like a direct criticism.

Hooray for walking LadyT! Hope you are feeling better and more rested.

Quick post from me as things descending into chaos around me as usual.

Just a quick post - LadyT brilliant news on the steps, so exciting!

WG I would be pissed off about that kind of remark. Though being me would passive-aggressively fume about it rather than actually say anything but I do think that's not on. Good god even if your DD was chubby, so bloody what, they are TODDLERS, it's not like it matters if they are beautifully rounded and cuddly. I wish DD had a bit more puppy fat myself!

ladyt - yay for O - that is great! just you wait... she'll be all over the place soon.

thanks for everyone's comments - found it v hard to get to sleep last night for thinking about it. i will say something at some point - not quite sure what or how, but some great suggestions here. thanks.

madam has just spent 20 mins screaming before finally relenting and going for her lunchtime sleep. she fell asleep earlier in the car, but only for 5 mins, so i think that has put her right out of whack. and you know those days when the screaming gets to you and rips your heart out and makes you feel like the crappest mum? yup, one of those days...

btw - there was a link to a meet up thread - can't find it. i know it's friday - at the rfh, and i doubt i will be able to come, but just wanted to check i was right. where, when?

Hi all, have just skimmed cheekily at work but Hooray! for O taking steps :) she'll be chasing you round the house annoyingly before you know it

BF - well, my mum FFed me and my brother, I don't know her reasons and if I ask dad it's one of the many things where he says "I can't remember". But we've both turned out fine. I do however have a cousin (from a very RC family, who had an illegitimate daughter aged 19!) who was into the LLL and I saw her BRing her daughter a lot when I was about 11, so that may have been a subconscious influence even though we've never discussed it. It was something I always thought I'd do, partly from laziness (no faff with bottles etc) and partly because it seemed to be the 'right' thing - nobody else pressured me into it and fortunately dd and I managed (with a lot of help from bf drop-in clinics) to get the hang of it. She's only really stopped in the last month or so - still tries but it's getting v sore with the PG boobs, and I really don't think anything comes out any more so it's my emergency 'get her to nap' standby but apart from that it's only every few days now.

WG your friend's comment is really out of order. If toddlers eat a lot it's because they're busy growing so fast, and running around and using lots of energy. Sybil it makes me livid that people are judging your dd for not being skinny at the age of 5. I had a complex relationship with food as a teenager and student and am trying very hard not to pass on any worries to dd, though obviously it's very hard sometimes as we prepare their food, decide how much to offer them and whether to give them more. Some days DD would eat all the apples in the house if I let her, and I worry when I say "No you've had enough" if I'm imposing my will on her too much.

gah work - will catch up hopefully with lots of you tomorrow

WG look on Mumsnet stuff/meetups, details are there

Aaahh WG the 'tearing at your very soul/straight from the depths of hell' yep I'm familiar with that one. WG I think what your friend said was quite out of order and you are right to ask her not to say such things. When my 3rd niece was little she was quite a decent size thing (now she's a gorgeous, slim very together young lady). Everyone used to call her fatty, including me. I didn't realise it upset my DSIL until one day when I said it to DN my DSIL said "oh please don't call her that, I really don't like it". Sadly she didn't feel she could tell others but as she & I are close and she knows I understand her as a mother I took it how it was, a mothers right & job to decide what people say around their children. I was in no way offended, in fact, on the contrary I was honoured that she felt she could tell me

What a clever O, now she can walk & talk & is infect well ahead of most Dec08 babies. . You do realise she will be PM one day, or hosting the Apprentice!

here

Oh & very excited I'm coming to you from the Nordzee. We are currently steaming across the waves to Harwich!!!

Interesting stuff on the bf. I was bf a little bit I think (my mum is very vague on the subject) but my decision to bf was more to do with the health benefits and the fact that it would obviously be enjoyable for the baby. And anything that's natural (and free) has got to be a good thing.

Before having DS I thought I would bf but was well aware that it's really not easy for everyone so I thought I'd just give it a go and see what happened. However when it came to it and it was much more painful than I could have imagined it made me strangely determined to bf no matter what. I think I was spurred on by the lack of support I got from people like my mum encouraging me to give up cos it was hard. I thought fuck you, I can feed this child. And I did. And I'm ridiculously proud of the fact.

I understand where you're coming from Rubes in that some of the pro-bf advice you get encourages you not to top up or express but when you are in pain and have a low supply and a hungry crying baby what can you do? I have to say though I hated DS having formula. I made DP do the bottle feeds and it upset me to even look.

FWIW I tried going without the expressing and the topping up and neither worked for me. The baby can only up your supply if they are capable of removing enough milk, which DS wasn't for ages after having the tongue tie op at 6 weeks.

Introducing formula doesn't have to be a one-way street either if you don't want it to be. I was exclusively bfing DS by 3 months. Having said that it was bloody hard work to get to that and I don't think I could have managed it with 2 DCs to look after (luckily with DD I had a good supply from the start and got the tt snipped at 10 days).

LadyT fantastic news on the walking!

wg I agree that your friend's comments are out of order. They're going to be bombarded with that crap all their lives - can't people even wait until they're out of nappies before they start brainwashing them? Having said that, I must admit I've sometimes seen podgy children and wondered if their parents are aware of it (and wondered if people are thinking the same about DS - it's hard to see your own child objectively). Assuming (charitably) that your friend's concern is DD's health then she should either keep it to herself or speak to you about it sensibly and not make remarks that DD can pick up on. I think that might be the tack I would take to discuss it with her if I was in your shoes, i.e. I don't mind talking about stuff like that but I'd rather you said it to me and not DD.

Meet-up thread is
here. I have a bit of a meet-up dilemma actually. Am meeting a friend at 11am tomorrow and originally she said she would have to leave early so I was going to have lunch with her and then come along. But I think that might no longer be the case. Do I bring her along? She will have her DD born Nov 08 & 4 year old DD with her so all fine there. Not sure if I'm really ready for the whole RL/MN crossover thing though. If I bring her nobody mention my username! Not that anyone would normally but Bisou is hopefully going to be there, and maybe sybil who I haven't met either. Maybe if I just whisper it...

I am knackered and extremely grumpy today. And very behind with my work. Best go.

PD I don't mind but it might be tricky, I guess we could all just pretend we have quite bizarre names. Generally the thread doesn't get mentioned but I'm not sure what others would think. How will you be explaining how you know us all?

I'm so sleepy I've already had 3 coffees today but think I might need a 4th. Have tried to keep DS2 placated when bored with a lollipop but I think he is now having a sugar rush (maybe there are advantaged to the organic no sugar diet). Couldn't keep him still to eat any dinner, managed to get him to eat a few mouthfuls by tricking him into showing off his fork using skills to daddy but he's off again now to the ships playroom (convenientally located next to a bar!). Thankfully the onboard entertainment starts in 20mins.

Oh on the organic sugar free diet, I was actually a bit into all that and I do thinks it's good to try to achieve a diet for them which limits sugar and includes fresh food but in reality it's difficult & I do sometimes wonder if my neurotic belief that anything not organic was bad for DS1 effected his feeding. I wonder if he sensed my feeling towards certain foods and reacted accordingly. Obv hasn't stopped his loving sugar & meat now!

Veggie just had a text from her and she will be around till at least 4pm (but not sure if she is doing her own thing in the pm or not). It's her birthday tomorrow so I'd feel mean sending her packing if she was planning on coming along - I've already mentioned to her that I'm meeting up with some mums I know from the internet but I would rather not mention that it's MN or what my username is obviously. Maybe we could use the codename Netmums if it comes up in conversation ? I really want to come along & see you all but the other thing is I'd feel awkward catching up with you lot when she wouldn't know anyone. Tricky indeed!

When does your boat get in?

On the healthy diet thing, I think sometimes the message doesn't get across that what is a healthy diet for an adult is not necessarily ideal for a toddler. I was reading about a study into nursery food in Essex a while back and the report said that while they expected to find a sub-optimal diet that was too high in fat, salt, sugar etc in fact it went too far the other way and there was far too much emphasis on fruit & vegetables on the menu. The report stressed that toddlers need a high-calorie diet so sugar and fat are not the no-nos that they are for us adults at all, and fresh fruit and veg is fibrous & bulky and can push out other foods so should be taken in moderation. So take heart all mums of fruit & veg haters! Oh it also said that children should ideally have a mixture of wholemeal and white bread rather than one or the other (for the same reasons).

Having said all that I can't believe the crap that passes for snacks at the toddler groups round here compared to the ones we used to go to in London.

Can't keep up can't keep up. Sort of lurking but my laptop is knackered and posting from the phone is such a pain.

Off to the meet up thread. Need someone mob No. For my Inevitable I am lost call.

Effie don't worry about your friend coming I am terrified I have never met any of you and the boys have been on magic form this wk so tom they are bound to melt down about something.

Hey ho. See you all tom

Jam: fear not, I will have both boys abd they are bound to be hyper and loud. DS 2 has taken to shouting a lot and DS1 is conveniently deaf to any instructions. We were making cakes this afternoon (bloody rain) and the soundtrack went: don't put the spoon in your mouth. Don't - get another one from the kitchen. No, cleaning it on your top doesn't count. DS2, get your fingers out of the eggs. DS2: Caaaaaake! Nooooooo! Caaaaaaaake!

They are now eating said cakes which is a lot quieter.

Effie i made DS1's birthday cake last week and no unwanted interventions...however, whilst my back was turned & the dishwasher opened DS2 retrieved a chocolate laden spoon from the cake making and licked it clean...& it was the next day

hello. Just popping on to say hi so I don't lose touch with everyone. Have only had a v quick read and wanted to wish you all a fun day tomorrow. We're coming to the end of our week with inlaws on Saturday and it's been lovely. MIL is total star. FIL is a total glutton, though, and sometimes find it quite sad/hard to watch. He just can't stop eating and it's really sad. he's a sweetie, but is about 20 stone and you just know he's a heart attack waiting to happen. MIL has been amazing and we're going out for dinner tonight! Yay! Typically DD2 has chosen tonight to go bananas having been dream baby all week. But she's gone down to sleep now, so am about to go.

Have an ace time tomorrow. So glad DD has taken her steps, Lady. And WG I would ignore you friend and just let your daughter eat what she likes - she's not even 2!!! And at least she eats - wish DD1 would!!!

Big love to all. xx

wg I think your friend is totallyout of order with what she said about DD. Iwould definately ask her to refrain from saying such things!

lady fab news on O's steps!

beansGood to hear from you and that your having a good time.

Oh and pleaseeeeee stop talkingabout tomorrows meet-up I am very, very

Although i am very i hope you all have a brillian time - which I'm sure you all will!

Ooh something about Bliss on BBC2 now. Am keeping an eye out for Bisou...

I wish you were coming DB I'd love to meet you.

We've docked 30 mins early but for some reason we're not allowed get off until the normal disembarkation time. Oh well. I've been reading one day on my iBook thing on itouch. I was actually getting a little annoyed at first but since the Greece trip it's improved. I find angsty type stuff a bit boring but it's not being as predictable as I first thought. Though it is quite chick lit. Why oh why won't they publish you Lady, you are so desperately needed by our demographic, the late thirtysomethings who are terribly intelligent but still like girly stuff just not girl powery stuff, and quite like looking at men's bottoms and biceps.

Oh, David Nicholls. I've only just twigged what everyone's on about. Read one of his called the Understudy a few months ago and it was bloody awful. Why is everyone reading his books? Is he the next big thing or something? I am totally out of touch with the whole book world thingy, but agree it's about time someone pulled their finger out and published LadyT's book.

Have you seen Bisou yet Effie?

MsBarlow shame you can't come to the meet-up. Shall I have an extra slice of cake in your honour? Oh go on then. Actually I am up North next weekend - if you fancied meeting up for a brew I'm sure I could escape the rellies for a couple of hours.

Just wanted to post quickly to say how very sorry I am to be missing the meetup tomorrow and to hope you all have a fabulous time.

Summer I have stayed up far too late to find both instalments of your birth story, and I?m so glad I did, it made for a lovely bedtime reading and I?m very pleased that both you and Helen are fine. I think an ECS after many hours of labour must be the hardest in terms of recovery, as you have two lots of body exhaustion/surgery to get over rather than just one or the other. I hope your soreness has passed now and you are recovering from the CS quickly?

Yay for a boy on the thread at last, great news Spot. And so lovely to hear about WGs scan too, I?m so glad your little one is very determined to stick around

LadyT advice for Mum?s to be (if its not too late) ? my personal favourite came from my midwife. Don?t let any visitors into your house unless they bring food. Don?t let them out again until they?ve done some cleaning. Also the biggest surprise for me was that your body needs to recover after a natural birth ? for some reason I only thought a CS would have affects that lasted more than 30 minutes after the birth, but it was 3 weeks before I could stand up for more than 5 minutes or walk further than the length of the house. Really interesting what the dietician said, even though DD is a reasonably good eater, there was still some ideas that will be relevant on her off days so thank you for sharing. And I just started laughing out loud at your mention of Three Men in a Boat ? surely the funniest book ever. We had it on a cassette and were listening to it in the car on holiday once ? and my Dad had to pull over onto the hard shoulder as he was laughing so hard he thought he was going to crash, and then got a ticking off from a patrolling recovery vehicle (pre mobile phone days)!

Trace your holiday sounds really nice, but how scary about the car. I?m so so pleased to hear that there was no damage

Vagola you were venting about your DS1 picking at vegetables, I have some fab recipes with hidden veg (all Delia). Pumpkin/parsnip/onion/etc scones that taste just like cheese scones (ie bloody delicious warm with butter) but have a reasonable amount of veggies grated into the mixture. I have always loved them and it seems DD does too. I bet your DS1 would be a dab hand at making them, and might like them (and if not, send them my way!)

Congratulations on your new niece Invis

Clever son of Rubes, with the fork! DD suddenly stole my fork last week and tried to spear her food onto it, so I got a little fork out for her ? to which she promptly stole my fork, again and so kindly handed me the little one to eat the rest of my lunch with [hmmm]. I enjoyed reading your posts from yesterday ? so much more positive on the feeding thing with DD. I really hope you?ve found a solution that works for your DD and you. But as she?s gaining weight and has got over the jaundice, it sounds like she was getting some goodness from you anyway

Jump DD also counts two of everything ? I assume its because it rhymes with ?shoe? and ?boo? (some of her favourite words), whereas one and three aren?t like any other words she knows. Although on that basis, she should be excellent with four (?door?) ?

Welcome home Avo

I?ve been devouring the newspapers for stories about the Camerons this week, as I just love new baby news. (Well done Lady ? you predicted Florence!). But I am at my tits end with reading about their ?only? son ? they have 2 sons, it is just unfortunate that one is no longer with them. It upsets me every time I read it, and then makes me angry that each article ends with ?their eldest son died last year? ? so clearly they don?t have an ?only? son

WG I totally agree that someone else shouldn?t comment on your DD?s weight. I was babysitting some children once during the day and the little girl (must have been about 7) was a podgy, puppy fatty child ? and after lunch she went to choose a yogurt for pudding and came back and showed me that she?d chosen the ?low fat? option ? almost broke my heart there and then that it should even enter her head at that age. Needless to say she is now 16, and the loveliest, leanest with curves in just the right places, girl you ever did see ? and nature found that perfect weight for her, not dieting. (And I too cannot bear to see food left uneaten, even if it makes me feel sick, as I was always told to finish my plate ? I am convinced they are linked)

Hurrah for 5 steps LadyT, how many today?

On BF, I was BF and everyone I know has given it a go ? even though some people struggled and some even swore off it for life (for them, even they were positive about me trying). My opinion was to give it go and see what happened ? and it was alright really. Expressing was far more hassle than it was worth for me so I wouldn?t bother with that again. And also, with hindsight, I don?t know why I didn?t want to use FF at all ? I guess I?d thought that it would muck up my supply, but one bottle once a day wouldn?t have once it was all established. However, once DD got bottle phobic at 3 months, giving her anything but BM went out the window for another 3 months when she worked out she could drink from an open cup

Now, Miss Effie I have a bone to pick with you (going back lots and lots and lots of pages) - Louth Capital of the Wolds. As if! Tut to you. Driffield is the Capital of the Wolds, Louth keeps on trying (and failing) to steal the crown (as our local news like to report whenever it?s a slow news day) Hands off that title, its ours!

I've had a lovely, grown up day today - I took the day off and met up with my best friend and left DD in nursery. I think it was probably the first time since DD was born that we've had quality time without DD being there too - so lovely to devote all my attention to my friend (and cake). She is so good with DD, but doesn't have children of her own and I do worry about being one of those boring Mum's who haven't got anything else to talk about other than their children.

Enjoy the meet up tomorrow everyone