Dec 08 Ladies - LIghtning Strikes... and the usual gossip!

[Beans33]

Hope this works for everyone - I'm assuming Summer won't give birth in the next few hours!! x

All that time with 3 boys! Crikey! Do the navy offer any support for the wives? Childcare, mind altering drugs?

I meant to say, Lady I think it's amazing considering you found it so repulsive to at least give it a go. At the very least if you ever get some 'well meaning' busy body saying "oh but you'd feel different if you actually tried", you can say "I did & no I didn't". I think I told you once about a friend who BF but found is repulsive but persisted for 3 months hating it the whole time. She loves her little boy but we (her mutual friends) think it effected her bonding with him in those first months. If Lady you still feel you want DD2 to have that first milk you can express and ask the nurses to give it to her via syringe. Though you might find expressing a bit yukky too. I know I do a bit.

Oh & DH went to see the lovely real estate agent who got us this flat and had a chat to him about buying something to live in now with the view to renting in the future, so good rental potential. Anyway he gave some great advice, he said the areas we preferred were great for rental and not to go too big. He said 2-2.5 bedrooms were best as they appealed to a wider group of potential renters. He has also advised that we buy something a bit run down and do it up before moving in. Apparently banks here look quite favourably on mortgages for renovations and will lend for the cost of the renovation because generally it gives the place instant equity. He also we are in a great position because we aren't desperate to buy so can offer what we want and as it's a buyers Market we'll probably get a pretty good deal. I'm getting quite excited now. We've made a date to meet him on the 8th and we can all have a look at some houses inc the boys. He will show us quite a cross section of places including some needing renovation.

Hello all

I am tired and not feeling esp well today, so forgive the rubbish short post.

Glad things are going well for you Summer. LadyT, you MUST take it easy and rest a bit more. There is only so much one woman, and a super one at that, can do. Please don't overdo it.

Avo, your cakes sound fab. I have done the number thing for the last few birhtdays by renting tins. They look good and the buttercream covers any patches. Where is the Jane Asher shop? I love the online one but would revel in being able to touch all the lovely things.

I am fascinated by the BF chat. My mum BF me for 7 months (til I bit her, apparently) and I was keen to give it a go. I have now been BF on and off for over 5 years. I will be sad when I have to stop. I thought about training to be a BF supporter as I get a bit cross when people are given rubbish info, but I haven't really got the time at the moment. So many of my friends wanted to BF for the first 6 months but had to stop because of useless/ wrong/ no advice. I was just lucky that it worked out for me. The box sets were a bonus as well. However, I had a couple of bouts of mastitis and it was so vile that I would have been offski had it carried on. I do believe in BF but not at any price. Glad your new arrangement is working out for you, Rubes.

Vag, I love the new nickname - reminds me of "fragola" which is Italian for strawberry. Do you think the wider MN would approve? Do we care? I hope not.

I was a bit repulsed at the idea before ds, but not as repulsed when I tried, well at first I was but as I carried on, I found it more and more the norm I spose.

Interesting you say that Deids - about it (BF) hurting at first but continuing. I think If I didn't have the screaming in between from her, and it was just the initial pain, I would be fine about it with dd. Today was quite a good day. I Bfed her with every feed so far for about 10 mins each side and although it was painful at first, she totally cats bummed after just 1oz of formula on the last feed so it was almost like she was getting more than usual - and no screaming? but then again that could be because she needed that 1 oz more which she got it's a mystery but I will continue while I'm feeling good about things and see what happens.
Went via Mothercare when I picked up dh - no meltdowns - well a small one when he say Iggle piggle and wanted to stop but there was no way I was putting 50p in again to hear him scream the shop down in fear of the little baby ride like he did only 2 weeks ago!
Picked up dh and there was quite a lot of traffic on the way home. Stopping and starting etc. ds started to kick off so dh jumped in the back seat to feed him some raisins. I set off when the traffic started moving again, and projectile vomit - all over dh, all over ds and almost over dd dh was really grossed out and was frantically trying to get me to drive faster! Not so easy in a traffic jam. Good Lord it was really chunky full of whole raisings, sausages and peas and stunk to high heaven of cheese? He was transported straight to the bath and hosed off yuk yuk yuk
Summer I was worried again [hyperchondriac] so asking dh aagin if I've lifted ds too soon after op. he said well yes, but it will be ok. Of course I over analyzed and drilled him for more info and he thinks that it was good I wasn't on pain killers long as I can feel everything, and so unless you are doing repetitive lifting etc, then you would probably REALLY know about it if you did any serious damage. ie if you haven't done any lifting and buckled over in pain afterwards you will be ok, but still not a good idea to do any lifting until 6 weeks. he did say thoug, in reality it's not possible when you have a toddler to look after and dh returning to work, so as long as we are sensible, and use caution, all will be fine

Florence Rose eh? Don't love it I've gotta be honest

Crossed with you Sybs - Hello, hope you get some rest and feel better soon

Oh the name reminds me of Avo's dream. Avo that was so funny.

Gosh that no lifting thing for 6 weeks must be necessary as it's major surgery but it's quite unrealistic when you've got other kids. I hope your ok now summer. That's all a bit crap that you have all that pain.

Sybs hope you feel better soon, esp by Friday. Can you believe only 2 more sleeps! And we are catching the boat tomorrow, which I'm also quite excited about.

I love Florence Rose Endellion, Rubes. Ha ha! Totally, totally gorgeous imo.

Vag, I don't think your DH will get funding for that research And a good estate agent and a nice HV on the thread in the same week? Great Scott!

Avo, that early project you did sounded interesting. I am sure I like my obs so much as she treats me like an intelligent human being. However, I appreciate that time talking to patients is often not possible in the NHS - my sister assesses pre-op patients and her clinic is booked so crazily full (and she sees a lot of cancer patients and also older anxious people) that it stresses her no end that she just cannot give people the time they need as the slots don't permit it.

Anyway, more in a bit.
Sybs, I am FINE and actually I would like YOU to have a rest and I would happily come and wait on you!

I love Florence Rose Endellion too. Rose is DD2's middle name and Florence was on our list. We scrapped it because it doesn't shorten well. I hate Flo and Flossie although I like Flora (although you may remember DH had concerns about "Flora spreads easily" jibes).

yes it's just the shortening to Flo I don't like mostly.

Reminds me of Saniflo loo's

yes it's just the shortening to Flo I don't like mostly.

Reminds me of Saniflo loo's

Waiting for Thai delivery....

I have a friend called Florence & we all call her by her full name. It's one of those names that shouldn't be shortened isn't it. I've never heard Endellion. I'm not sure that I don't like it, it's just really unusual, where is it from?

O was very very nearly Octavia Florence Alice and not Octavia Poppy Alice. I thought DP might want Florence in the name this time but he hasn't gone for it. He is disappointed in the Cameron's name as he just said he was hoping against all hope and logic they'd use the name I have my heart set on as we would then have to revert to name 2 which is his favourite. One of his sister's kids is Flora.

Endellion is a nearby Cornish village or something. It reminds me of Endymion, which is Latin for bluebell and precisely the sort of name I love. There's a Greek myth mixed up in there too.

I wonder if Endellion will catch on? Mind you, I like Dandelion 'n' all. There is no stopping me.

Oh, and the bleepers will go off as this is my third post, but I am so pleased to hear DS1's violin lesson went well. That is lovely.

hello there - sorry to hear about the projectile vomiting, rubes. glad to hear the feeding is going better. whatever it takes, i reckon.

re: bf... i never even considered doing anything other than bf, mainly because every mother i saw when i was a child did it - might be because most of my immediate family was german, maybe more popular in germany, who knows? i knew it might be hard, so didn't rule ff out, but both madam and myself seemed to do pretty well at it. in the end it was just so easy, that i think i got slightly trapped into not giving up earlier than i might have done. it also seems to me the "natural" thing to do, but i am quite a touchy feely/au naturelle person about bodies anyway, if you know what i mean. however, i've seen the pain it causes some women, and i know some are repulsed by the idea - fair enough. and i simply don't believe the tripe spouted about people being cleverer/more articulate if they are bf as opposed to ff. ffs. each to their own. happy mother=happy baby in my book.

a question... madam has started telling me she needs a wee. she doesn't. but we traipse(sp?) upstairs anyway, take clothes, nappy off, sit her on the loo, wait 5 secs, she jumps off and i have to get her dressed again. she does this umpteen times a day. she has also realised she can strategically place her stool so that she can now get up and sit on the loo on her own. i found her today sitting on the rim, fully clothed, pulling strips off the loo roll and putting them in the bowl. i suppose i should now get one of those inserts for the loo for little bums - just in case she falls in when i'm not around (she looked pretty precarious as the lid was up). can anyone recommend one/have advice for one? i honestly don't think she's ready for potty training yet, nor can i be bothered with it - or am i wrong???

also... another question. a really good mum chum of mine has a daughter who won't eat v much, especially in comparison to madam. her mum is gorgeously slender, too - i am not, although not massive by any standards - always been a size 14/16 and 5'10", although now a bit larger due to clackerdom and no exercise. this mum chum doesn't let her dd have any sugar, chocolate, crisps, and most of her stuff is organic etc. this isn't how madam eats, but each to their own.

now, madam will beg for food from almost anyone if it's around, and if she fancies it. when this mum chum comes round, and madam does some begging/asking for food from her, i try to explain that this is food for my friend's daughter and that she can't have it - i tend to offer her something else. this mum chum has now on at least 2 occasions, albeit very jokingly, told madam something like: "if you carry on like that, you're going to turn into a right little porker, you piglet". or something to that effect. am i allowed to find this deeply unsettling and can i ask her not to say things like this to my daughter? i am very conscious that i was praised for eating up all my plate as a child, and for finishing everyone else's plates, too, if they hadn't finished theirs, and i think this has resulted in a slightly unhealthy relationship with food that i have (find it v hard to leave anything on my plate - always ask for the big option etc). i really do not want to raise dd like that. i let her eat what she wants, essentially when she wants - she is not porky in the slightest, but i know genes being what they are, that if she's like me, once she hits puberty she will probably become curvy. i remember being so self-conscious and thinking i was fat during my teens (it felt like my mum and godmother constantly talked about weight when i was growing up), and when i look back to photos of myself then, i was simply lovely, and not a stick thin android.

anyway, slightly beside the point - should i trust my instincts about not liking how this friend talks to madam, and if so, how do i do it? i like her very much - we see eye to eye about loads of things - she is really funny, intelligent, but can be a bit selfish and insensitive. hmm...

oh, bloody hell, that was practically a novel. sorry.

Veg - house stuff sounds very exciting. I'd go for it. Amused by his advice not to get something "too big"! But then if Holland is anything like Belgium you can buy enormous mansions for next to nothing and then live in one tiny corner that you make habitable while the rest of it crumbles around you...

I too am finding the BF discussion interesting. I was BF, but not for too long, so I don't know that it was much of a factor. I guess the whole thing became quite emotionally charged for me as DD ended up dangerously unwell having failed to feed properly and at that point I suppose I could have given up completely, but instead got quite determined to make it work. Once we were up and running DD refused to take any kind of bottle ever so I was stuck with it and actually I really enjoyed feeding her - its just magical to be able to soothe a baby in that way (cannot say the same for expressing, which is somehow a phenomenal drag). With DS I was almost worried about introducing bottle feeds eventually as I was totally clueless about that side of things.

On the whole alternative medicine side, I have a nerdy sciencey side so I suppose I tend to the sceptical. And I am not so sure about the whole "it can't do any harm, so give it a whirl school of thought", at least in some situations. I remember my dad being diagnosed with MS and being desperate to be "cured" he must have spent a fortune with every charlatan going for quite a few years. Other than the time and effort involved, it really set him back as it was only years later that he came to terms with his illness and just got on with his life. Thing is the placebo effect does work - its a magical thing (there is even research that shows that the colour of a pill will make a difference to the effect, or that a fake injection is more effective than a fake pill) so I can well believe feeling better through homeopathy etc, but....Having said all of that, I still took the arnica tablets. Anyone interested in reading about this kind of stuff, I'd really recommend Bad Science by Ben Goldacre - he is a doctor who specialises in debunking people making ropey scientific claims (not specifically alternative medicine) and writes really well. He also has a column in the Guardian.

OK - my strong view, WG, is that remarks like these from your friend are NOT ACCEPTABLE and I would be struggling to contain myself. Being a shoot-from-the-hip gal but hopefully not rude, I would say, "Look, I know you are only joshing but it does actually upset me that you make a thing about my daughter's appetite and I'd really rather you didn't, because even though she is v young, we're trying not to fret her/foster anxieties about that sort of thing and" .

DP has a disordered relationship with eating and food and his mother's disparaging remarks all the way through his childhood instigated it, imo. I know my own baby has a few issues but I tell you what, I would cut off my own hand rather than KNOWINGLY make her anxious about food and woe betide anyone else that does!

Gosh WG, I think your instincts are spot on, I would be very uncomfortable if someone spoke to my daughter's like that. The challenge is how to tackle it without souring a good friendship. I would find it difficult judging how to do that. Maybe a quiet, low key word simply stating that you really want DD to have a good relationship with food and need her to refrain from comments about weight? Are you guys coming to Friday's meet-up?

Hello Invis Blimey, we really cover the issues on here, eh? (and I am loving hearing about everyone's motivations re: feeding, so thank you very much)

No idea why I put a rogue apostrophe in "daughters". Off to beat myself up.

Yeah, Avo, hand it back to that greengrocer immediately for his banana's

Oh, and I don't know how I haven't said this (probably because I am a self-obsessed nitwit) but we were at the house working this evening and DD took at least 4 or 5 steps walking between us. She is deffo getting the idea (and is 21 months today, bless her gorgeous little heart).

Right, no more posts from me tonight

LadyT - hurrah on the walking, that is truly fantastic!

WG - regardless of the rights and wrongs on the substance (and I happen to agree with you, but then I am not exactly a paragon myself), you are completely right to feel uncomfortable about the way your friend is speaking to your DD. I would feel the need to say something in your shoes - I'd have thought you could say something subtle and non-confrontational enough for her to take the hint.

On the whole potty thing, that's great, she is interested and getting the idea - I bet she'll be a doddle when you do go for it (no rush)! Esp as if she is interested in sitting on the loo, you could skip the whole potty bit altogether, which might make life rather pleasanter. We have a padded toilet insert thing from John Lewis although DD didn't like it too much as it is not 100% fixed so she didn't trust it. We also have a potette which doubles up as a seat for the loo which is handy when you are out and about.

Go O! How fantastic that she is taking some steps. That is lovely news. I'm thrilled for you all. And thank you so much for offering to look after me, LadyT, but I am fine, honestly.

WG - the weight thing is a tricky one. I have terrible trouble with food and am working hard to train myself to eat normally, let alone foster a good relationship between my kids and eating. My DD1 (5) is always begging other people for food on the way home from school (despite copious healthy and not so healthy snacks) and I have noticed a few disparaging glances from the others as she is slim, but not whippet thin like some of them. If anyone has said anything (good or bad) about her eating (eg at lunch today a good friend said she'd done well as she'd eaten (wolfed!) the lot in super quick time!) I always say, once the conversation has moved on a little so it's less obvious, that I really try not to talk about eating in terms of good and bad as I've not had the best relationship with food and I don't want my children to feel the same. No one has then repeated any of it. Whilst your DD is less able to understand than mine as she is so much younger, I do think it's worth saying something gently as that kind of comment is not on. You may not want to reveal what you feel about food to someone but I think it is something which can be said in quite a general way. IME as well, people who designate certain foods as forbidden often come a cropper when the kids get older. It's quite interesting to see what 5 year olds eat at parties - they all eat sausages, crisps etc and the bowl of veggies which has been lovingly cut up is invariably eaten by a dieting mum (or me!).

2 more sleeps, Vag, how exciting. I am planning for Friday but will see if the kids come down with my plague first. I have had 2 glasses of wine tho and feel better already.