ok lefties....does that mean I'm not then?

[Heathcliffscathy]

because alongside social justice I really really really care about civil liberties? because they are not 'liberties schmiberties' to me, but rather, 'there but for the grace go I'? Do you think that really leftwing stalwarts like Roy Hattersley would agree with you that civil liberties didn't count for shit compared with keeping unemployment down at all costs, however fake the stats are in real terms?

because although I believe in state intervention, in the state as a mechanism of a drive to redistribution of wealth and drive to granting opportunity to all i ALSO believe fervently in the individual, in empowering individuals to make their own destinies.

I am so fucking disheartened by the tribalism, pettiness and bloodymindedness that I've been reading on the leftie thread.

New Labour wasn't really socialist at all, rode roughshod over the rights of (the most vulnerable) individuals, decreased social mobility in this country. they needed a kick up the arse and got one. they need to reinvent and regroup and godknows they won't if David Milliband gets the leadership.

Maybe, even as a leftie you can see that to continue to attempt to spend our way out of trouble is fucked...we're in much worse trouble than we would otherwise be (and we'd be in deep shit anyway) because of this ostrich like way of governing.

coalition govt is so humanising of politicians: they can't strut about declaring how it needs to be, they just don't have the mandate...collaborative govt if that's what we have a chance of is so hopeful.

party politics is killing this country, I hope for it's swift demise. No one is all right or all wrong are they?

So stay in your red bunker, spitting on anything new, decrying and ranting about doom befalling before anything has fucking happened...but count me out for now.

Hmm turns out we're all left wing libertarians. Is anyone on MN not a left wing libertarian? Perhaps we should get the Anxious Tories to have a go.

bloody hell. You see, I really can't see Cameron consorting with advisors who think like that.

that too coolfonz, first time most amazing thing ever, second less so, third absolutely bloody awful (think was ketamine)...steered clear after that.

not that drugs are cool or clever. at all. they do tend to fuck up your lecture attendance too.

at surfeit of democracy.

when someone says something like that, do you think they know they are mad?

i don't think that all mners are left wing or libertarian...definitely not libertarian..

and i think my stance is totally informed by being the child of immigrants (war torn trauma on both sides) so i don't think i'm generationally too far away from what fucked civil libs feels like not to care a lot about it iyswim

Oh come on. Labor implemented the HRA.

No I agree sophable - I was just surprised that so many of us came out with the same result.

Policy, what makes you think that about Cameron and his advisors?

sophable - that is a really great site. For those of thus that have never studied politics it explaiuns really clearly why we can't think in term of plain 'left' and 'right'

www.politicalcompass.org/index

Good thread Sophable and some good points, as a left wing (4.12) libertarian (5.85) Lib Dem voter myself I have been feeling a little out of place on the Lefty thread the last few days.

I am interested to see what the coalition government is going to do, although I really didn't want to see the LibDems going in with the Tories I think its a better option than a majority Tory government, where DC would have to listen to the more worrying right wing types in his own party.

I do think IDS as work and pensions sec is a bit scary though.

Agree would be very interesting to see how the Tory MNetters would do on the political compass.

Actually the thing that really scares me about Cameron is his media/PR background.

Thanks, Sophable. I was
-6.75 Economic l/r
-5.44 Libertarian
thus pretty much confirming the trend.

Found my blood pressure rising just reading some of those statements - primary duty of mothers is to be homemakers indeed.

This page is interesting, shows where the UK political parties fall on the compass. I am almost exactly were the Green Party are, such a shame they didn't have a candidate in my constituency!

Although I agree with a PP that there are obviously different schools of thought and opinion within each party, its still interesting.

And I have just noticed where it puts the Labour party

aubergine - I was pretty shocked at that. As a knee-jerk reaction to the coalition I joined the Labour party yesterday, and I'm now deeply regretting it

gawd, maybe they'll get better

Left -6.50
Social Libertarian -5.38

Phew. As I took it, I was fretting "what if it turns out I'm Right and Authoritarian? what if I was wrong all along?"

But Highlander, who else can you join? The Greens is the only party on that graph that reflects where we all are, but when I did Policies not Parties I was Labour almost every time. I guess there's a danger in too many quizzes and sometimes you just have to trust your instincts about a party.

Who dares post it on the leftie thread?

[runs and hides behind sofa emoticon]

Though don't wish to recommend instinct as a basis for political thought

aubergines that page is CLASSIC and confirms what coolfonz said about all the parties being right of centre. however, the libdems are notable in being the only one of the 3 mainstream parties to be on the libertarian side of things...also the libdems seem to lie LEFT OF LABOUR

Only from what I've been reading over the last few days Zeph - lots of commentators reckon that Cameron is a fiscally conservative (prioritising balanced budgets over spending) but not so in tune with r-wing social policy, and is happy with the coalition idea because it allows him to cut the right wing of his party adrift - the LibDem votes mean that he won't be held hostage by the hang-'em-and-flog-'em brigade.

absolutely policy...the coalition might allow cameron to cut the really right wing deadwood out of the conservatives for good (they'll all go to ukip hopefully)!

one thing that struck me strongly about the questions on that quiz were that I am very very mistrustful of global big business and VERY pro it's regulation.

I think most of those vote-by-policy sites give false results - too blunt an instrument. I've said this before but it had me down as agreeing with UKIP because of the following question:

Do you believe that spending cuts should be spread equally across government departments?

I said 'no'. Now, I think that things like international development should be ring-fenced; UKIP thinks that defence should be ring-fenced. To say that UKIP represents my beliefs on that basis is wank.

True, toast. I do have a hunch that labour's more authoritarian stance (ID cards) was to try and appease the right/Tories with regard to illegal immigration and the perceived threat from terrorism. It was a rushed and poorly thought out policy stemming from Tony Blair's desperation to try and please everyone, rather than sticking to labour ideology

I know nothing about politics, do correct me