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Politics

ok lefties....does that mean I'm not then?

323 replies

Heathcliffscathy · 13/05/2010 12:14

because alongside social justice I really really really care about civil liberties? because they are not 'liberties schmiberties' to me, but rather, 'there but for the grace go I'? Do you think that really leftwing stalwarts like Roy Hattersley would agree with you that civil liberties didn't count for shit compared with keeping unemployment down at all costs, however fake the stats are in real terms?

because although I believe in state intervention, in the state as a mechanism of a drive to redistribution of wealth and drive to granting opportunity to all i ALSO believe fervently in the individual, in empowering individuals to make their own destinies.

I am so fucking disheartened by the tribalism, pettiness and bloodymindedness that I've been reading on the leftie thread.

New Labour wasn't really socialist at all, rode roughshod over the rights of (the most vulnerable) individuals, decreased social mobility in this country. they needed a kick up the arse and got one. they need to reinvent and regroup and godknows they won't if David Milliband gets the leadership.

Maybe, even as a leftie you can see that to continue to attempt to spend our way out of trouble is fucked...we're in much worse trouble than we would otherwise be (and we'd be in deep shit anyway) because of this ostrich like way of governing.

coalition govt is so humanising of politicians: they can't strut about declaring how it needs to be, they just don't have the mandate...collaborative govt if that's what we have a chance of is so hopeful.

party politics is killing this country, I hope for it's swift demise. No one is all right or all wrong are they?

So stay in your red bunker, spitting on anything new, decrying and ranting about doom befalling before anything has fucking happened...but count me out for now.

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Heathcliffscathy · 13/05/2010 22:14

you know, i didn't name any names on this thread, and it quickly evolved into an interesting discussion. proles came on here and made it very personal and it feels like you are too onebat.

I'm sorry to upset you. with my disagreement (vociferous) with your attitude to civil libs and with my disdain and sense of betrayal for and by new labour.

but I don't think I've made this personal, I think proles and you have, and I really baulk at reading you saying (on the OTHER thread) that you're leaving it because of my thread (talk about talking about a thread on another thread in a pretty passive aggressive way! I'm not on that thread anymore. why on earth would you blame me for leaving it?

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BecauseImWorthIt · 13/05/2010 22:19

The fact is, sophable, that rather than argue your point out on the original thread, you started a new thread complaining - in a pretty aggressive manner - about said thread.

You complained about the "tribalism, pettiness and bloodymindedness" and said "So stay in your red bunker, spitting on anything new, decrying and ranting about doom befalling before anything has fucking happened".

Which grossly misrepresented most of the (eight) threads, which have been - largely supportive, witty, intelligent and pretty diverse in terms of peoples' views and political allegiance.

And then you come along and apologise but then start the criticism off all over again!

It's not just Prolesworth that's cross.

onebatmother · 13/05/2010 22:19

Because everyone on THIS thread will be over to that to have a gawk, Soph.

THAT's why threads about threads are such bad form.

You should have dealt with it there, instead of in this (forgive me, or not) very attention-seeking way.

Nothing you got on that thread was worse than what you were chucking out yourself.

People disagree - fine. In the astonishing political circs that we've just seen, it would be astonishing if they didn't disagree wildly. And actually, if you look back at that thread, in the circumstances it was a model of polite political debate.

Then you started this thread.

Prolesworth · 13/05/2010 22:21

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Heathcliffscathy · 13/05/2010 22:24

So how many apologies for the thread about a thread does it take??

I wanted to start a thread that I felt like I belonged on as I don't feel I belong at all on the lefties thread...I did it in a shouty way.

You know, you really insulted me yesterday (I am capable of being insulted by being called a tory in disguise) but that isn't why I started this thread...this thread is much more about really really feeling that I'm left wing and definitely totally not a New Labourite at all. I hate them. and MOST of the posters on the lefties thread seem to love them despite their faults and be very defensive of them...does that make more sense of why this thread exists?

attention seeking...well, yeah, maybe...felt more like in need of like minds tbh!

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BecauseImWorthIt · 13/05/2010 22:26

Fine. You wanted people around you who shared your views. I can understand that. But why slag off those on the other thread?

That's what makes it personal.

Heathcliffscathy · 13/05/2010 22:27

i wasn't slagging particular posters biwi, i was slagging the general greiving tone and i'd been doing that from day one ON the thread and I felt like I was really pissing people off by doing that...so i decamped!

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Prolesworth · 13/05/2010 22:28

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LeninGrad · 13/05/2010 22:28

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Heathcliffscathy · 13/05/2010 22:29

and if i made that apology now would you believe or accept it? doesn't feel like it at all, feels like you want a row and are going to keep going until it totally disintigrates.

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Prolesworth · 13/05/2010 22:30

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Heathcliffscathy · 13/05/2010 22:30

lenin which bit? the simplification?

i don't think that i'm wrong about most of the posters on the leftie thread mourning the demise of the new labour govt at all. i seem to remember quite a few posters saying that criticising them was bad form on a 'safe space' lefties thread. no?

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onebatmother · 13/05/2010 22:32

Well, that's all fine BUT

Your op was personal, so you got a personal thread.

Your apology was a half-apology and we all know that is worse than no apology.

What were you doing on that thread if you really HATED Labour. You must have known that would cause massive confrontation. It seems odd.

Re: Tory in disguise - I've posted on that. It's definitely up for debate, but the fact of this Con-Lib government kind of proves that I wasn't just being malicious when I said that the Tories and the LibDems share some fundamentals.

Heathcliffscathy · 13/05/2010 22:32

you haven't got a tory govt (despite labour's best attempts to make it so)...you've got a tory liberal coalition, and given the shite show of new labour, you should be very very pleased that the cons didn't get a landslide as was being predicted only 6 months ago!

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StewieGriffinsMom · 13/05/2010 22:32

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Heathcliffscathy · 13/05/2010 22:33

but according to you you all hate new labour too? so how come you love gordon? i didn't see him doing ANYTHING AT ALL to redress the new labour nightmare...nothing.

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onebatmother · 13/05/2010 22:33

Christ Sophable, your language is so inflammatory. That is exactly what I was talking about, when I said that you dish it out but don't like it back.

Heathcliffscathy · 13/05/2010 22:34

errr...onebat i was on that thread because i am left wing!!

but it isn't a left wing thread.

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StewieGriffinsMom · 13/05/2010 22:35

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Heathcliffscathy · 13/05/2010 22:36

I'm being black and white??

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Strangelybrown · 13/05/2010 22:36

gordon wasn't new labour.....he was just so desperate to get into Number 10 he'd put up with anything...literally anything, even New Labour.

and then when he got in the door he suddenly found he had no clue about what to do....rather pathetic.

Prolesworth · 13/05/2010 22:37

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LeninGrad · 13/05/2010 22:37

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Strangelybrown · 13/05/2010 22:38

I am half sorry for being rude about Gordon.

Thats worse than not being sorry , right?

Good- thats what I mean.

Heathcliffscathy · 13/05/2010 22:39

ooo proles are we having a political discussion again? would be lovely.. very sorry if I spoiled that. question time is on.

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