So...why do we hate the Conservatives so much?

[Chulita]

And why do we think Labour has anything left to offer after 13 years?

Just wondering...

Perhaps you might read the manifesto instead of expecting other people to do it for you?

The question is why are the conservatives hated. Left-wingers as your preferred term do not like their policies, that's one answer. They tend to think, based upon the policies, that they dont care about the average person, that they care even less about, the disadvantaged in society.

Many of them have lived the manifesto. Thank you very much. So if you have nothing to counter with, why are you here exactly?

Quite simple to ask why there is hatred in the name of the thread, fairly evident really. If you look at the manifesto you will notice that Conservatism focuses upon personal responsibility, yet it seems that hatred for people who hold different views is perfectly acceptable - see the problem here?

Just for the record I would be in your world considered to be "disadvantaged" as I had to give up my job for health reasons and claim Universal Credit. Do I whinge and moan about it - NO. I paid my taxes and get sufficient to live on and do not go with the "victim" mentality prevalent in other political persuasions. I do not use use food banks, I do not have any debt because I take personal responsibility and do not expect anyone else to support me.

Good for YOU. I'm glad it's worked out for YOU. However, I'm going to consider policies that work for more than just me. Because I want it to work for more than just me (And for the record I do very well with their policies), I'm not naive to believe any single policy will help all, but definitely more than just me and mine.

But that's okay you do you and I'll consider the collective.

I loathe the Tories, i dont know how else to express it.

Their values do not tally with mine at all. I am proud to be working class and come from north east England (now living in Scotland) and have seen the decline of my region since the early 80s. The loss of mining, shipbuilding, heavy and chemical industries was devastating to the region and some parts have never recovered, now seeing the outcome of long term unemployment and council budget cuts. Even the increased investment during the 1997-2010 Labour government & from the EU couldn't fully make up for the ravages of Tory policies.

I've seen changes in the workplace over the years, cuts and more cuts. More stress, less staff. People treated like an inconvenient means to an end for bosses.

I could go on all night, but these are just some examples of the experiences that have shaped my views. The Tories represent no-one but the very wealthy. Theg dont give a s#+t about the rest of us.

How do I hate them? Let me count the ways ...

Nah, can't be bothered to hate them. Just don't vote for them. Again. People don't learn from their mistakes, do they?

What does Labour have to offer? Hope?

Labour offers nostalgia - back to the policies of the 60s that led us into the hellish 70s.

I don't think nostalgia is what it offers all the young people who have recently joined under Corbyn. They weren't even alive then.

No it offers young people the same promises they did in the 60s and they are just as meaningless now as they were then. Labour is going the way of the unions - smaller, increasingly pointless and run by fat cats who have hardly done a real job in their lives.

Well that's your opinion. Not sure where you get your information from, though.

I've been disappointed by the Labour party. I think they should stick to socialist principles and provide a real alternative to rampant capitalism. I think that is what Corbyn is trying to do.

I want to live in a fairer world where hospitals and schools are given higher priority than big business (and please don't tell me that it's big business that pays for hospitals and schools - I think we all know it simply doesn't work out that way).

I don't like fat cats either, but I'm guessing they can be found in the Tory party too.

It is business that pays for hospitals and schools. How much money do you think Governments earn. Virtually every penny the government has to spend comes from taxing business. No business success = no taxes.

Big businesses don't pay enough, imo. And I'm not saying that there should be no big businesses - just that the money needs to be spent more wisely by the government.

Tax business too much and you end up with no investment, reduced workforce, and if you put up tax too much they'll go.

Yes, it's a hard choice: tax a business and risk redundancies or invest too little in schools and risk the next generation of tax payers. Should we be thinking short- or long-term?

I understand that workers pay tax and tax pays for schools. What I don't understand is how some work (eg banking?) is valued so much more highly than other sorts of jobs (eg childcare?) and how the differences between rich and poor have been allowed to get so out of control.

@SteelRiver

You've basically just repeated the same cliches that have been said for the past thirty years. Not a single one can be solely blamed on the Tories.

You can't blame the decline of the North of England solely on the Tories. Are you aware that Labour closed more pits during Harold Wilson's time in government during the 1960s? In fact, he closed more pits in five years than Margaret Thatcher did in eleven years. Arthur Scargill tried three times to get the miners to vote for a strike and he failed. The miners' strike of 1984-1985 was an illegal strike. Scargill wasn't interested in negotiating with Thatcher, he wanted to get rid of the government at that time. The pits were costing too much to run and were simply inefficient. Now, of course no-one wanted to lose their job, but it was inevitable that some people were going to lose their jobs because some pits had to be closed. Scargill is a communist and has praised Stalin, Lenin, Marx and Engels. Scargill did much more damage to the miners than Thatcher did.

Who brought Nissan to the North? Thatcher did.

Labour were in power between 1997 and 2007, what did they do for the North exactly?

Cuts are inevitable and happen with any government in power, what is your point?

"The Tories represent no-one but the very wealthy." - what utter hogwash. The Tories have helped more people than Labour have ever done. If you think "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer" then I suggest you take a course on economics because that is an old socialist/marxist lie.

@Solopower1

What "real alternative" of socialism is better than capitalism? Explain.

Hospitals and schools are prioritised by the Tories. Health and education are important.

"Big businesses don't pay enough, imo. And I'm not saying that there should be no big businesses" - what businesses would exist under a socialist government? Socialists want to get rid of profit. Socialists want to take away the incentive of money/profit which is why big businesses tend not to vote in favour of socialism!

You couldn't have been serious when you claimed that can't understand why some work is valued more than other work - good jobs require brains, menial jobs require nothing really. Thus, a lawyer gets paid more than a general labourer. It's not rocket science.

Why should there be any regulation between the rich and the poor? People are individuals and some people are better at doing some things than other people; there is always going to be a gap. It doesn't matter how big the gap gets because as the rich get richer, the poor become less poorer.

I don't hate the Torres and will be voting for them in the next election.

When I look at the current labour offering I feel very uneasy as they like the politicians from the 1970s. Many will not remember this era but it was a scary time it was like living in Eastern Europe. Shortages, disorganisedterrible education standards it was DIRE

These were again made in line with the consideration that terms should be accessible and easily understood by taxpayers.
Tax summary description
Description of PESA source (See PESA Table 5.2)
Public Sector Expenditure (£bn)
%
Welfare
‘Social Protection’ excluding state pensions
174.4
23.8
Health
Health
145.8
19.9
State Pensions
Within ‘Social Protection’ 1
93.8
12.8
Education
Education
87.8
12.0
National Debt Interest
Within General Public Services, but shown in more detail in table 5.2
44.5
6.1
Defence
Defence
38.7
5.3
Public Order & Safety
Public Order & Safety
31.6
4.3
Transport
Economic Affairs, without Business and Industry but shown in more detail in table 5.2
31.2
4.3
Business & Industry
Economic Affairs, without Transport
21.4
2.9
Government Administration
Captured under General Public Services, but shown in more detail in table 5.2
15.2
2.1
Environment
Environment protection
11.4
1.6
Culture (e.g. sports, libraries, museums)
Recreation, Culture & Religion
11.8
1.6
Housing and utilities (e.g. street lights)
Housing & Community Amenities
12.1
1.6
Overseas Aid
Captured under General Public Services, but shown in more detail in table 5.2
8.6
1.2
UK Contributions to EU budget
EU Transactions
5.4
0.7
The government has made very few changes to the presentation of tax summaries from last year. This is to enable comparison across years.
• State Pension figures quoted here are from the OBR Economic and fiscal outlook – March 2018

This is where the tax take goes - without tax we have no money for anything

www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-public-spending-was-calculated-in-your-tax-summary/how-public-spending-was-calculated-in-your-tax-summary

Ninjacat - what a sad envious little person you must be.

As for voting Tory kills, voting Labour means the country will be bankrupt, a failed Venezuela and see how many that kills.

I don't, quite the opposite