So...why do we hate the Conservatives so much?

[Chulita]

And why do we think Labour has anything left to offer after 13 years?

Just wondering...

"We" are a mixed bunch on here. Which is what makes MN so interesting

sethstarkaddersmum, I agree too about the minimum wage.

This is what I'm scared of

It's not simply the Scots, Irish and Welsh - I grew up in Yorkshire in the 1980s and saw entire cities and regions destroyed by the tories. Even worse, they legislated away the regional county councils in those areas when they tried to help themselves improve services via local taxation. A shocking disregard for the 'ordinary working families' who they now claim to stand up for (and now it's popular to look down on people who are the second generation on benefits - there is a reason for their plight...).

Minimum wage is a good one, hard to know if the Tories would've brought it in at some point. That's definitely a positive for Labour.
Plenty has been privatised since Labour came in too - Air traffic control for one.

I hate that the Tories in the 80's created a whole generation of people who only think about themselves and their little bubble. It was their ethos then, as it is now.

Every pore in my body screams to me that this is wrong.

no, the Tories wouldn't have brought in the minimum wage - they voted against it.

Because I don't want to live in a selfish society where everyone is out for themselves.

sethstark, chulita and humphrey I am not having a go but...

The tories got RID of the Wages council years ago and yes, labour were fab for bringing in the national wage and no the tories were all against it.

Nowadays- the tories say they will keep it but they have not said they will keep it up with inflation etc. Alot of speculation says they will now just let it die out and give businesses 'get out clauses' so that they can pay people silly amounts again.

Oops

but my fear is that Labour will inflate their way out of trouble (and if they don't get their act together regarding debt it will happen no matter whether they want it to or not) so the effect will be much the same because they won't be able to keep up with it.
if the economy isn't in good shape everyone is buggered, basically, no matter how much the party in power cares about the poor.

so you dont think the minimum wage is a good thing then?
Or do you think a crapper minimum would be better [eg: get rid of it]?

Real tories don't want the minimum wage - they want business to pay "little Polish people £2 an hour as the market should decide"

The market should decide is the mantra - no protection for the vulnerable - no minimum standard of living

Hassled - me too! Dreading all that emotive, biased 'social injustice' reporting. ! I know that's not what you mean - couldn't resist!

not real ones... all ones!

May I recommend this book.

I thought it was an excellent analysis of what went on in the Seventies, and it wasn't like we all remember. Tis also quite an easy read.

perhaps I can see that both parties have some good policies, and that it is also good to change after a prolonged period in power. For ANY party.

that sums it up really

but you all believe that we are going to have a bonfire and put all old people/single mothers/immigrants on top of it, so I do wonder why I bother....

• sorry that was to this comment "They have forgotten the strikes, shortages and general chaos of the late 70s under a Labour administration. "

• quite a lot of the above was under the conservative administration.

Humphrey - did you read Hassled's link ?

that conversation with Cameron is how thin the veneer is. Didn't you find it chilling?

I will read later, as have two dc hanging off my arm atm

but there are things about GB that I find pretty chilling

am not an apologist for Cameron either, I much prefer William Hague

we are wasting our time Humphrey.
the idea that we can support many things that Labour has done and yet not trust them to deal with the financial crisis clearly just doesn't suit this fixed picture of Conservative voters that some people have.

"Because I don't want to live in a selfish society where everyone is out for themselves." But isn't everybody out for themselves? How many people voted for labour because they don't want to lose their tax credits, or their child trust fund?

It's not wrong - looking after oneself is a natural response. But we all do the same.

I voted tori because under labour we are financially worse off. We're not entitled to tax credits (fair enough), but given tax rises/national insurance increases etc we are signifficantly worse off now.

And no, we are not "the rich", and tbh I resent that implication. Dh earns a decent salary and we are extremely lucky to be in a decent position financially. But certainly not rich by any stretch of the imagination.

exactly Sethstarkaddersmum

Rich is subjective. Compared to most of the world we are all very rich. But you go on and claw a few more coppers into you coffers if that's what you think you deserve.

God I hate Torys

Wannabe - come on, how much are you really worse off? We don't get any tax credit etc either, and dh pays top rate tax so yes we are slightly worse off than before but it's not thousands of pounds a year - tbh it's probably not even hundreds. And to pay for things like surestart centres and tax credits for struggling parents - well I am quite happy to pay my bit. Morally, I cannot reconcile myself with conservative policies at all, it's all far too 'I'm all right Jack'. But then I'm a Scottish child of the eighties so I guess my memory goes back a long way....