Depressed Lefty red eye - The morning after the night before

[Nymphadora]

Hello

Cos I am so vain will repeat one of my posting to another thread:

I don't think that LibLab coalition is necessarily best for Labour anyway!

Labour might be best sitting back and watching LDs get screwed and then sweeping up the antiTory vote next time with a new Leader..plus they would not have had to do the nasty public sector cuts. That is probably optimum for Labour.

Also, LDs need Labour's support to get PR referendum through to the public. So why would they do deal with Tories with Tories not syupporting PR and then alienating Labour support for PR? Doesn't seems to make any sense.

LDs are just going through the paces saying that they are looking at Tory offer as they will get punished by the lectorate if they dont do that.

Sorry but I really do think that Labour is sitting in the best position whatever happens. I like the LDs so this is just a dispassionate observation that I am making.

When I say I think Labour have to keep Gordon I mean in the short-term under a Lib/Lab/Others coalition.

I'm saying this really because of the economic situation, and I think a general agreement, that we need a strong government (although I do think this is grossly exaggerated by the Right - we are not as important as we think).

A short term coalition with a promise to provide economic stability and electorate reform, with Gordon stepping down as leader of Labour before an election is called, could be sold to the public I think. Then again perhaps I think this because I'm Scottish and live in a European country with PR.

I spoke to my French DH about this idea that the Libs and the Labs are the 'losing' parties and he thought it was very odd that that is how the UK public see things. However because of our current FPTP system this is how we see things. In France an election like this would be considered a win for 'The Left' and a loss for 'The Right'. To DH it is the Cons who have 'lost' and the idea of them trying to form a government is . However as has been pointed out on this thread that is not how the British public see it due to their being brainwashed used to our current system.

DH is also appalled at our biased press and says that is another gain we will make from PR - our press will stop blatantly backing one or other party.

I agree with ISNT's DH - Things Are Changing. Might not happen at this election but with any luck at the next one (which cannot be far away) British politics could change forever.

I bet the Tories are CRAPPING themselves and they are going to want to blame poor old Hameron (I'm almost feeling sorry for him).

Point and laugh at the cross Tory

No- I think Gordon will be a bargaining chip for LIbLab coalition. NC has to be part of something that looks new.

x-posts with Beachcomber - illustrative of her last point

Just re-read my post- obv "confidence", not "competence", sorry.

Beachcomber- I think what makes the situation a bit more complex is that many Lib Dem voters probably wouldn't consider themselves to be left-leaning. They have a broad spectrum of support, with NC himself closer to the Tories than Labour on many ideological points. Grossly oversimplified, they have in common with the Tories a greater focus on individuals and civil liberties (as opposed to `Labour collectivism), but have in common with Labour a greater focus on fairness and social justice than the Tories.

So neither side can really claim the LibDems as their own.

"LDs are just going through the paces saying that they are looking at Tory offer as they will get punished by the ectorate if they dont do that."

I agree with this. If they are going to try to present PR to the public as being 'fair and democratic' they have to behave in a fair and democratic way themselves i.e. by going to the party that won the most seats. If that party is not willing to compromise they can they go conscious clear to a 'rainbow coalition' which has the majority of votes and is not there for the purpose of governing as such but for rejigging what is obviously an unfair system.

rofl at the Oliver Letwin joke

I love Delingpole: he's so utterly nuts, he's terrifyingly fab. Like Mandelson's parasitical half-grown evil twin...

I've been talking about 'command and supply' - it's 'confidence and supply'. 'Command and supply' is probably something to do with ensuring a steady supply of baked beans and porn to battle troops.

I agree that the LibDems are not really close to Labour in many ways but neither are they close to the Tories in that they are progressive whereas the Tories are most definitely not.

That is why they are in the crucial position they are in. They are the perfect illustration of why we need PR - just look at how many votes they get compared to seats. When I say I think they could work with Labour I do really mean in the very short term and mainly for the purpose of electoral reform. It is just a shame that the timing (economically) is bad. I do agree that they would much prefer to do this without having to work with Brown but fail to see how a new leader can suddenly be pulled out now. The press would have a field day.

A new leader CAN'T be pulled out now. If there is to be a Labour/Lib Dem coalition, it HAS to be with Gordon Brown. It is him that has the right to form government, not the Labour Party. If he resigns now, the Queen will choose a new leader, and it will be Gammeron

Great link policywonk .

Just thinking, in France we do have a right wing and right wing parties, however they are nothing like the Conservatives. The right in France is much more modern and less entrenched in old school tie, etc. If the UK had a right wing party like this they probably would have won this election. They tried to put a modern face on things with Hameron/Osborne (hence keeping everybody else and much of their policy in the background) but have failed to convince people.

The Tories are about as relevant today as an uncomfortable and smelly horsehair sofa.

This is the beginning of the end for them (under their current guise), especially if we get electoral reform.

haha at the cross tory

that's what they're really like, for all of hamface's caring veneer. good to remember that!

ROFL at Gammeron

Beachcomber, I agree about the progressive/ non-progressive divide- I made a similar point myself earlier.

One thing I am wondering, in a PR system like the French one, where would the LibDems sit? Would they vote together, or would they sit more to the left or right depending on their individual views? It might be hard to have a party whip on some issues.

Everyone is ignoring me

Don't you know who I AM?!

The thing is, the French don't have (do they?) an equivalent class structure. I don't mean income disparities, but this incredibly durable British system of major public schools-Oxbridge/Russell Group-professions (including politics). All these potent class signifiers that allow the self-appointed ruling classes to identify each other, and insidiously exclude almost everyone else. I'm not sure what we do about this, short of lining several thousand people up against a wall (which of course the French did fairly regularly over a 100-year period )

S'cos we never had that bloody revolution we needed.

French do have a class system of sorts I think but it is more rural/urban, North/South, Paris/everyone else... And much less entrenched and complex as ours.

Blimey. LibDem HQ being shouted at by Take Back Parliament campaign.

Something very amusing about direct action by bunch of lentil weaving PR supporters

Beards aplenty, well-chosen coloured scarves and not a black hoodie or SWP banner in sight: like no other demo you've ever seen...

Ooh protesters outside talks - good for them.

Special branch are lining up with their special deterrent: raw meat