Tax Credits = benefit-dependent society?

[Chil1234]

Seems that the scariest thing facing many people on these boards about getting rid of the Labour government would be the prospect of a drop in tax credits and other benefits.

Being cynical, I'm now wondering if Labour didn't deliberately engineer the way tax credits work not solely to help those in genuine need but also so that the maximum number of people receive a portion of their income from the state. If it wasn't in part to create a culture of dependency and entitlement why else set the ceiling for receipt up as high as £50k?

Tax Credits were created for a specific reason - 'to make work pay'. This took in several ideas, amongst them allowing people to get back in to work even if part time with enough money to make it worth their while to at least get them back into the habit of working. I'm sure this has worked for some people but it hasn't worked out over all.

I did fio, had all the tests when I was pregnant.

Sancti - good on your DH for not following in his grandads footsteps!

Anyway, he's the one that's missing out.

thanks sancti. I often look at her in amazement that I managed to produce such a gorgeous specimen! her sperm donor father was obviously good for something - god genes! lol

Well it changed a lot since it was created Oojma- when they started off they were a different ebast entirely to what they are now and as they now include delivering former benefits the aims can't be the same either. We get disabilty premium for the bouys for example, and a person on IS IS gets their chidlren's portion paid via the system.

We always worked, we needed no habits making, but they have amde it possible for Dh to turn a nightmarish situation (redundancy with chidlren and a carer wide) into a possible future which has to be a good thing. They enabled my sisyter to keep working when her DH was really ill as she could afford childcare on one salary (no way he could have done it- bedridden). A well known poster on here who is disabled herself and has a severely disabled child copes with bills becuase her carer DH works part time and gets TCs.

These may not be the exact things they were set up for but they are the things the constituents benefits (eg Family Credit) were and they make a real difference to real people in horrid circumstances.

good genes, not god! lol Although I suspect he thinks he is god sometimes the way he behaves

Viagra!

cordon - ugh, just had a terrible thought - like one of those TV shows with corrupt fertility doctors and the link - are you going to have to leave the area/vet all her boyfriends when the time comes?

yep! there is a good chance that in the future, a by she 'likes' could be a half brother

I think it will be quite easy to tell though. There's not much ethnic diversity in this town, a very small percentage of afro-Caribbean/africans living here, and it's likely that the majority of the mixed race population has been fathered by him!!

'How is working part time lazy? surely not working when you could do (disability and caring responsibilities aside) is lazy'

Oh FGS, I've heard it all now. So because I chose to give up my career to look after my young children (instead of paying an astronomical amount on childcare so someone else could do it for me)that makes me lazy .

When did it become so frowned upon for mums to stay at home in their childrens early years.

I was on a fairly decent salary but saw most of it fly out of the window on childcare costs and leaving my 2 young boys in nursery for 10 hours a day and only really seeing them for an hour before it was their bedtime was not my idea of how I wanted my children raising.

This isn't a dig at full time working mums, my eldest was in full time nursery from 6 mths until he started school.

I have made a choice purely on how I want to raise my children, once my youngest is in school then I will hit the job market again.

Live and let live

Cordonbleugh, we were together for about 3 months when i got pregnant and he left a few months after she was born. He paid for a little while, not a lot. Contributes now but unreliably and has told me as of August he wont be paying anything because he has a debt he wants to pay off. Whatever, Im not going to beg for it! Your daughters dad sounds like a prize d!ckhead. Eurghhh.

Mumtd - You've missed my point. 'Live and Let Live' yes, if you can fund it yourself. If your partner is paying or youve got rich parents or you earn enough even doing part time, fine work part time and look after your kids.

My point is that if you are relying on tax credits to top up your wages so that you are able to work part time that is not fair on those of us who dont get to spend time with our kids because we work full time so that we dont have to rely on tax credits. My point is nothing to do with whether its better for the kids to have mums at home or not.

I have met an awful lot of women who choose to work part time so that they can spend time at home with their children and because of tax credits they are no worse off for the fact that they work less than full time.

How is it fair that they spend 2 days of the working week having coffee mornings and taking their kids to the park while Im at work funding it?

I conceed my arguement is weaker when the kids are babies, even weaker if mum is working part time to study for a vocational degree - and obviously arguement is non existant if mum has a disabled child that needs care.

But if kids are at school then tax credits are basically supporting a choice to have time in the day to do housework that the rest of us have to fit around work, and to pick kids up from school which lets face it - isnt essential if you can afford it.

Oh and yes, not working at all is worse, of course.

isnt essential if you can't afford it.

Part time work is really hard to come by Riven, its so frustrating when youre in a situation where you need to work part-time like yourself.

Where do you live if you dont mind me asking?

'Oh and yes, not working at all is worse, of course'.

FE but I do take my role as work, I have 2 children in school and a 3 year old and 20 mth old not in school. Dh earns enough for us to get by, we have a comfortable life and don't need the tax credits for me not to work, but they do come in handy (but my dh pays taxes and I have paid quite a lot of tax in the past, so I don't feel guilty about that).

Some people choose to work full time even if they don't have to, I am not going to start feeling guilty that they are paying more taxes, it is their choice.

I don't get annoyed that my dh is working full time and paying taxes to enable some mums to stay at home with their children, I actually think that it's a good thing.

I also disagree that it is wrong to want work around school hours, again not all jobs pay well enough to cover childcare costs for out of school hours/school holidays. So a family would be better off (not just financially) to work part time and have less childcare expenses and have more time with their children, what is wrong with that?.

Riven, is there anything you can do on a self employed basis, eg I've just started a will writing business as I only work 3 days and am bored.

You were an academic, weren't you, in your former life? Could you do tutoring for GCSEs, Alevels from home? All those years of HEing must have built up loads of skills which people would be prepared to pay for.

It's v v hard to find a pt job, but starting up your own business may have alot of advantages.

BTW does anyone want a will doing? I'm cheap as chips

I don?t exactly choose to work full time, it?s a duty I have as a fit and able person with skills to work every hour that I can to support my family. The alternative would be to work part time and claim tax credits to top up my salary (at least it would have been when I was single but wouldn?t get any now, my salary is too high and mine and DPs jointly is def too high) I just couldn?t have done it.

Basically, looking after children is not what I call a ?job? it?s hard work yes, no one doubts that. And a worthwhile thing of course. But at the end of the day my obligation to my children is to support them financially and build a future for all of us. Also to set an example as I really don?t think I could cope with my daughter staying home to raise children when she is older.

Riven, sorry no I wasn?t going to offer you a job but if I know what area you live in I may be able to give you some useful contacts

Ps, you have 4 kids, two of which aren?t at school yet? that?s not the same as when mums with 1 or 2 kids at school say they CANT work full time because they are mums?

ok, agree with you that once children are all in school full time, then unless there are health/disability issues, then there are very few reasons why a mother cannot work full time.

That goes for both single parents and those married/with a partner.

But, while full time working straight away may be the 'ideal', there are other aspects to consider. For instance, if a woman has been a sahm for a minimum of 5 years (be it on benefits or because their partners salary enables them to do so) then in the short term at least, part time working offers them the chance to ease themselves back into the world of employment, gain qualifications and experience, and help them to adjust to a new lifestyle change, before they go full time.

You could see the ability to do that as a luxury, but for many parents, going back to work is a daunting prospect, especially if it's the first time that they are leaving their children in childcare.

Your moral code is such that anything less than full time working is not good enough. Fair enough, you have high standards for yourself and that is actually something that I can admire and respect.

Nothing is always black and white though and sometimes you have to accept that other peoples way of thinking, while different to yours, is not necessarily wrong.

Tax credits, wrongly or rightly, are there to help people. If they were scrapped for anyone working less than full time, a lot of people would fall into abject poverty. They would end up on benefits like income support etc.

I think tax credits are, overall, great. My DH is on above average wage but we get some. We could cope without though. I think single parents should be able to stay home till their kids are older and then be able to work part time.

Studies have shown that tax credits enable some mums to stay home but that issue is 'outweighed' by the fact that they help single parents into work (according to the Gov).

I am a SAHM by choice (since having DC2) but have 5 DC so would find it too much anyway paying for someone else to have them and my DC5 has health issues. I see my 'job' as caring for them and I am also saving us money on childcare and enabling DH to work odd and changeable hours. I don't care what others think of that to be honest and see the way things are as not really 'normal' anyway compared with culturally or historically. You get one life, do what makes you happy.

I don't feel I should be doing paid work at all (at this point in time). I have enough to do. Saying that, I am doing a degree and volunteer when I can so put alot back. I will probably want a career when the kids are older or grown up but who knows. (I started young so will have plenty of work years left).

Each to their own.

'When did it become so frowned upon for mums to stay at home in their childrens early years.
'

I have found it is either people who care purely about overall economic wellbeing (ie GB) and not individuals or other mothers who are working and worried that they are not doing the right thing (but think if all others did the same as them then they would maybe not think this) or who are resentful that some get to stay home while they don't/can't. That is just my gut feeling on this, I am not saying all WOHMs think this way, when I was one I didn't.

Thanks, cordon. I?m a feisty old witch, I know. The problem is that I get really upset when I hear people say I CANT. So many women want to do so many things and get held back by telling themselves, I can?t because I have children, or I can?t because I am a single mum - even dare I say it 'I cant because Im a woman' - . Quite happy to believe that there are women out there who have some kind of amazing strength or energy or this illusive 'support' from famlily members etc who are therefore able to do what they cannot. Before benefits, tax credits etc people had to push themselves to just get on with it but now there is, IMO, too much support/ choices that enable people to opt out.

Of course there are loads of individual situations. Depression, illness, redundancy, sick children etc etc but in a 'normal' situation where a mother is healthy and able to work, I really do genuinely beleive that there should be no reason why she should not. The availability of financial support doesnt encourage this.

Thats my opinion, and i think I am entitled to it because it is my tax after all that helps support peoples choices.

What about people who dont have children.. a friend of mine went on a rant recently because she had spoken to a lady at her workplace who worked 2.5 days a week and had a daughter at school full time. She told her she neednt work full time because tax credits and benefits topped up her salary to where it would be if she worked full time

I dont really know what the solution is? Maybe the government could employ me to visit each household and decide who is deserving and who is not? I could give little lifecoaching talks too? Joke.

Agreed - there are a lot of incentives encouraging part time work, but none, that I have seen, encouraging full time.

Maybe it's all part of the governments agenda to appear to be doing something about unemployment. Don't know what the figures are, but if half of those people started work part time, with help from the government, well, that would look bloody fantastic wouldn't it? "hey, look at all these people we've helped get back into work, unemployment figures are down by 50%, aren't we great?!"

A lot of people do make excuses as to why they can't work.

Hell, my brother is 18, he lives with my dad, has no children/responsibilities/commitments etc, yet trying to make him get off his arse and get a full time job is like trying to push an elephant up a slide!

Oh, and you're not an old witch, fiesty yes, but not a witch lol

I've actually enjoyed the debate

Heehee, I love a good debate!

Oh and the point about the government is very valid i think. Otherwise why would they set 'being in employment' so low at 16 hours?

Somethings a foot!