Tax Credits = benefit-dependent society?

[Chil1234]

Seems that the scariest thing facing many people on these boards about getting rid of the Labour government would be the prospect of a drop in tax credits and other benefits.

Being cynical, I'm now wondering if Labour didn't deliberately engineer the way tax credits work not solely to help those in genuine need but also so that the maximum number of people receive a portion of their income from the state. If it wasn't in part to create a culture of dependency and entitlement why else set the ceiling for receipt up as high as £50k?

(no childcare we can use sadly) - that is not a good situation to be in and having the choice taken away from you because of that is not a good thing at all. I appreciate that but at no point ever in my life have I flamed anyone for working part time/ not working/ being a SAHM whatever, if they really couldnt.

It's those that as you rightly say 'give others a bad name' that get to me. Its the attitude these days (in general, not just on this subject) of, I can make my own lifestyle choices because the state will foot the bill.

Its the sense of entitlement that a lot of people have because they are a parent when actually being a parent makes it all the more important to push yourself out there and work your arse off.

Oh I know you didn't foureleven

And no cjhildcare doesn't stop me nbeing self employed at some point and I am owrking towards that, but need to qualify first. Will get there though and then will rule the world feel really good and know i've earned it!

DS1 (the one who cannot acccess childcare) is 10; in six years he will be at college or similar and I will be 42. The younger kids (including mroes evere but less violent ds3) can use after school provision so I still ahve a good 25+ work left in me yet- this is a blip. Nothing more.

ok, I have already said previously in this thread, that I could work full time. I'm not disputing that.

My reason for choosing to work part time, is that I need to be able to fit in my degree as well. If I worked full time, I wouldn't have time to do it on top of everything else. Maybe that is selfish, but I need this degree to increase my chances of getting a well paid full time job which will enable me to be self sufficient.

My degree should be completed in october 2013. In the months leading up to the end of my degree, I will be looking for a full time job. As soon as I have that degree certificate in my hands, I hope to have a full time job.

Then the issue of spending time with DD will be a non issue because she will be in school full time anyway.

The benefit of my part time job is that it is in the field that I want to work in anyway, it will provide me with invaluable experience (which also furthers my chances of getting a decent full time job) and will look good on my CV.

The government has provided me with incentives to come off income support and go back to work 16+ hours a week. I have very gratefully taken them up on what they offer, and I don't feel guilty at all.

I suppose you'll be disgusted to learn that as well as tax credits (working, child and childcare element), the government will give me a one off job grant of £250, and and extra £40 a week for 52 weeks just for going back to work in the first place (in work credit)?

You are working too hard fio

TBH I think retraining works well for teh country longer term- better 3 years on PT wages then 40 on a decent income than 43 on a crao wage that always needs topping up

So personally, I ahve no issue with that

No I am not disgusted to learn that. In my line of work I know all about these incentives and I am undecided as to whether all of them are a good thing or not. I mean clearly they are there to encourage people to go back in to work, great. But what has happened to society that we need any more incentive than having a job and paying our way. No one would have given my grandma money for getting a job when she and my grandad were hard up with a young family 40 years ago..?

cordonbleugh, I am sorry we have ended up rowing. I actually took huge offence to the women (who has disappeared) who claimed that she had every right to stay at home with her child and have her pay topped up because she didnt want her child to be institutionalised. Then there was someone else making out that a mother is incapable of working full time.

Somehow you and I have got in to an arguement when to be honest I actually based on your last post I have no issue with what you are doing!!!!

Good for you cordonbleugh. I am studying towards a Modern Language degree also with the OU. Like you, I want to get a well paid job, so I don't ever again have to rely on ANYONE, least of all a man! I should graduate in 2013 also. I think it is a good investment for society as well as for my son and myself. However, for these 6 years studying it would be totally unrealistic to expect someone to work full time and bring up a young child single handed.

well, I have to be honest and say that I don't know much about politics so I am not able to have an intelligent debate on the pro's and con's of a society that requires top ups and incentives from the government to go back to work instead of claiming full benefits!

Perhaps it reflects the low work ethic of some people in this country. But perhaps low work ethic is caused by the availability of benefits and the assumption that they will be better off not working (which is actually rarely the case) vicious circle?!

I'm sorry too foureleven. I think perhaps our circumstances are very different despite both being single parents at some point. Do you mind if I ask whether you were with your DD's father for some time prior to becoming a single parent? I only ask because I have always been completely on my own with DD, her father has never had anything to do with her/us let alone pay a penny towards her upbringing. So I don't know any different.

I just took offence at being called lazy when, from my perspective, I am far from it When you've suffered from severe depression and even getting out of bed or having a shower is a huge struggle, to get to the point I'm at now has taken a lot of hard work, physically and mentally.

I want to be a good role model for DD. I want to show her how important it is to get a good education, a good job and to pay your own way in life. I don't want her to end up like me doing it the hard way.

To go back to OP - yes, they've made people dependent on the state.

As for the rest - I've tears rolling down my unsympathetic face at the tales of woe faced by a family taking home 100K plus per annum and finding it a struggle to get by.

YOu know cordon I don't think it is just aused by worketghic

They genuinely did lift some famillies from poverty

When we had ds1, we both worked FT but we earned a joint income of £22k and that was before TC's: we were totally and utterly skint and it was really hard work just to get by if anything broke. We were genuinely working poor. No top ups or any kind of benefits except CB and we both ahd to run a car for work.

Nowadays we don't live in luxury but we can repalce the washing amchine if it runs out and although our coats are usually second hand, if they break we can replace them without someoone going without lunch for a few days to cut the shopping bill.

The don't wanna works have always been tehre- tehyw ere there in the reighties as they are now- but TC's weren't set up to help those but those who wer really trying.

'Why has cordons ex not paid a penny for his daughter fgs? This is a terrible situation and one that seems very apparent why arent these men paying for their kids? there seems to be loads of them '

It is very telling, Fio, how, over the years, how many threads there have been from women who need to leave or have been left by their partners or spouses, and the first question they ask is what benefits they can get. NOT how much he will or needs to pay.

It's not their fault, again. It's the fault of the system that men can father two families and not pay a penny towards any of them.

FioFio, he has an indeterminable amount of children and as far as I am aware, he doesn't pay for any of them

He is a 53 year old man (yes huge age gap I was a very vulnerable 18 year old and fell for his 'charms' ) He cheated on me after only a few weeks and got her pregnant as well. We were both due on the same date. OW had her DD early and my DD was late. So not DD has a half sister 2 weeks older than her.

He then got various other local women pregnant and I've now lost count of how many half brothers and sisters DD has.

One of DD's half sisters is a year younger than me and according to her, he has fathered at least 20 children (that she knows of)

It's completely fucked up and he should be castrated.

Bloody hell cordon - as naughty as it might be to say this - I'm very surprised that a girl's brother hasn't "dealt with" him yet. Your daughter by the way is absolutely gorgeous.

Fio, they're not all really young no, some in their 20's and 30's even. He works as a bouncer/doorman at a bar/club in town (small town, only 3 and 1 nightclub) So on the rare occasions that I go out, I have to walk past him to get in. He can't even look me in the eye, never even asks how is daughter is, most of the time claims she isn't even his.

Everyone thinks he's the dogs bollocks. Cos he's jamaican and built like a brick shithouse, he's 'cool' for some reason. It really winds me up to see girls swapping numbers with him on nights out. I just want to shout "he's a wanker, he'll get you pregnant and leave you in the shit, don't go there!" But no one would believe me.

Believe me, my dad has to try very hard not to batter him when he sees him. But like I said, ex is built like a brick shithouse and dad has cancer so he's probably just get battered himself!

Thanks skihorse, she's the best, most beautiful thing that ever happened to me

cordon You could always give the girls a condom... Not much you can do to stop tipsy, impressionable girls sleeping with a man who seems exotic - but they don't all need to get knocked up.

Cordon dh's Grandad was like that; 2 legit kids he acknowledged and we know of at least 8 that he never would

Tosser had the gall to criticise Dh at our wedding for not being a chip off the old block (by which he meant Dh is faithful and stands by us)

A prime bastard for sure

no, you're right, and getting pregnant with DD was 50% my responsibility, and I'm doing my bit now.

There's nothing I can do, but hopefully these girls are more sensible than I was.

God, sounds like something off Jeremy Kyle doesn't it! We're much better off without him so I'm generally not bothered by it. Only when I see him, which thankfully isn't too often.

Oh and I heard recently that he has to take viagra to get it up

And yes Coerdon she is really gorgeous (though am a sucker for little girls as the mum of four boys LOL)