Tax Credits = benefit-dependent society?

[Chil1234]

Seems that the scariest thing facing many people on these boards about getting rid of the Labour government would be the prospect of a drop in tax credits and other benefits.

Being cynical, I'm now wondering if Labour didn't deliberately engineer the way tax credits work not solely to help those in genuine need but also so that the maximum number of people receive a portion of their income from the state. If it wasn't in part to create a culture of dependency and entitlement why else set the ceiling for receipt up as high as £50k?

Innit - Much classier in The Suburb.

Shes not in a nursery, she spent 10 hours a day with a wonderful women in her 40s in her beautiful home with 2 other mindees. The three of them had their own bedroom and beds. Its as homely a place for her as my home... and as any of your homes. Its not an institution.

FE I certainly would never say that (I know it wasn't directed at me btw). My eldest was in full time childcare from 6m until he started school at 4 yrs and 5mths old.

I can't stand the 'if you are a sahm then you are not setting a good example' bullshit though and I do get defensive .

This last comment was directed at you, just a feeling I get from reading through most of this thread.

ok.

ROFL.

I don't think I could bring myself to live there or highgate village or anywhere like that. (Not that I will ever be able to afford it). I would feel like I was showing off

I am a terrible inverse snob actually. Or just a snob. Combo of the two maybe

Argh, I mean the last comment wasn't directed at you .

ImSoNotTelling - you filthy middlephile you.

Oh get over yourself I was a single mother for 2 years and I did the same as I do now. In fact it was easier because I only had to consider my daughter where as now I have a partner and a step daughter to cook for, consider the feelings of, give my time too etc etc. Put her to bed and put my feet up rather than spend time with the other two.

Actually if it helps you with your vitriol, he earns an enourmous salary and i dont actually have to work at all.

WOHM/SAHM - you are both wrong obviously. It's the M bit that does it.

I know and it's depressing.

I have turned into my mother.

I want to buy a piano. And this after laughing in the face of my friend who (bizarrely) stated "how can anyone with children live in a house without a piano?". (yes I know)

I am the absolute product of my upbringing.

mumutd - haha that makes more sense, I was thinking... 'But I have a three bedroom house too.. '

Anyway, Id better be getting on with all this hard work I keep harping on about and claim to be doing! Theres not been much evidence of it since I logged on to MN today haha.. MNs not going to put dinner on the table!

Haha - We still have to go to may parents for the piano ;) Well other than the toy one.

I have enough trouble with the flippion recorder... a piano!

"may parents" is the accent coming out?

I think we probably know each other

(no I don't want to know!)

sorry if I've offended you, but it just really grates on me to see single parents being branded as lazy, and not doing enough, not working hard enough because they only work part time.

Fair enough if you find life more difficult now because you have other people to consider - everybody's circumstances are different.

But surely you can see that a single parent singlehandedly raising a child, running a house, working 16+ hours a week and studying for a degree once the kids are in bed is NOT lazy by any stretch of the imagination?!

Wouldn't your anger be better directed at people who have absolutely no intention of going back to work ever, and claiming benefits for the rest of their lives?!

ImSoNotTelling - May accent is a variable thing depending on whom I am talking too ;) My grandmother had the most magnificent cut glass accent. I tend to generic middle class norf london. Unless I'm talking to a minicab driver or a judge.

The thing I don't get about all this bashing part timers is that a woman's career covers something like 40 years. The child rearing years take up just a small portion of that.

If a mother (or father) wants to be there for the children during those years and not take on the commitment of full time work, then there are many advantages to working part time.

For women, a great excuse for the lack of opportunities and progression has always been the poor provision of childcare. Fair enough, if you're earning a small fortune, working full time is an option, as you're far more likely to be able to afford full time childcare. The same for parents with great family support.

For the vast majority of workers earning minimum or even average wage, the tax credits go someway to helping parents to work and pay for childcare.

I personally think that has many benefits for women and society as a whole. For parents, it means they can take the pressure off a little during those early years whilst keeping their hand in the workplace. Or it enables them to improve their education for better employment prospects in the future, when their children are older.

For single parents that benefit is surely enormous. The alternative for most single parents would be to stay on benefits completely and not work at all, as childcare costs would be prohibitive.

The system may well need tinkering with, I wouldn't argue that it's perfect, but the principle behind it is spot on.

"But surely you can see that a single parent singlehandedly raising a child, running a house, working 16+ hours a week and studying for a degree once the kids are in bed is NOT lazy by any stretch of the imagination?!"

I personally would have felt lazy, yes. But Im the kind of person who stops to watch eastenders, then gets back up again.

I had an overwhelming need as soon as I became a single mother to get out there and earn money to bring home. To me, providing financially for my family is my goal. Its what gets me out of bed. Not doing a degree, or doing housework, or playing with my children (more than at the weekend of course, please dont think I dont think its important to play with children!)

Oh, I am MORE angry at people who dont work at all yes!!!

Also, I wasnt about to stand back and allow my male peers take all the payrises and clients from under me! But thats another thread!

There was a lot of talk/presumption made/stated towards the start of this thread that people seemed to think that the purpose of Tax Credits was to help people get back into work! Nothing of the sort is true, Tax Credits are really the inverse of a Tax Relief/Reduction, but supposed to be targetted at low income/low-earners/specific groups, rather than Tax Reductions, which benefit all tax payers to greater or lesser degrees.

Thus quite simply, rather than Government choosing to introduce Tax Reductions as a means of channelling more funds to 'needy' persons/families, Labour chose to introduce Tax Credits, with a whole set of rules of their own (as opposed to general taxation, tax bands and tax rates). It's a bit like the VAT philosphy, whereby people are not Taxed at source, but on what they buy/spend their money on...in an analogous way.

If I'm correct, 'needy' persons/families appear to have been those earning upwards to £50k (or thereabouts), but no more.

Tax credits have thus nothing to do with getting back into work, but more so supposedly help those with very limited incomes to quite literally survive in their daily lives. Whislt in theory it may have been a good idea, one spin off it has created is a whole class of people who make little real attempt to work seriously (or work as much as they could do), but sit back and expect (...and get) Tax Credits to keep them in their lives of dependency !!!!

DevonParent, who are these people who don't work 'seriously' and what does that mean?

are you for real?! How is that lazy?! Studying for a degree part time with OU on top of everything else is bloody hard work! And I don't even have time to sit down to watch eastenders!

And working part time IS providing financially for the family, we don't do it for free!!

Why is doing a degree a bad thing? It will enable me to get a full time job ffs

And I do housework because I'd rather not live in a shithole.

And It's because I've spent so much time with my DD that she is way ahead of her peers in terms of intelligence and development.

You chose to full time, that what you wanted to do with your life. That doesn't make you better than me!

fourelevene/cordonbleugh - you are both already in the wrong for being mothers, so you can never be good enough, and nono one CARES how hard anyone works. It certainly has nothing to do with the salary you earn.

cordonbleugh, I take my hat off to you. I really don't think I could do it.

I'm a SAHM with one child and a DH who works. I'm knackered most days. There's no doubting you work bloody hard.

I've a friend who works full time but with fantastic family support. Her parents picke up the kids in the morning, give them breakfast, take them to school, pick them up from school, give them dinner and take them home again after she gets home, around 6.30ish. She couldn't work without their support, but rarely gets to spend time with her children, as they're off to see their Dad at the weekend.

I think whichever way you choose to do it, it's hard.