Tax Credits = benefit-dependent society?

[Chil1234]

Seems that the scariest thing facing many people on these boards about getting rid of the Labour government would be the prospect of a drop in tax credits and other benefits.

Being cynical, I'm now wondering if Labour didn't deliberately engineer the way tax credits work not solely to help those in genuine need but also so that the maximum number of people receive a portion of their income from the state. If it wasn't in part to create a culture of dependency and entitlement why else set the ceiling for receipt up as high as £50k?

A degree will not get you a job. However, if I did a degree I could command a higher salary.

I would LOVE to do this but until I can afford to fund the time it would take to do a degree myself, i do not see that it is my right to do so. Its a luxury that i cant afford.

If working full time provides enough financially for your family then why are you relying on tax credits..? That makes no sense.

I am sorry to tell you this, but it is not because you spent time with your dd that she is ahead... my daughter is too. I'm sure you did a great job though and I dont think im better than you.

thanks wubbly - I do work hard but I love it because I get the best of both worlds. I've never been happier actually!

Foureleven seems to have missed the part where I've said that part time work is a short term thing for me, and that the sole reason that I'm doing a degree is so that I can get a full time job!

oh and foureleven, on your profile, you claim to be "fiercely independent and self-sufficient" I really don't see how that can be when you have a partner bringing in money, providing emotional, physical and practical support. Any yes, it may be that now you have other people to consider, but you also have another person to consider you I don't.

I don't work full time, I work 20 hours a week.
A degree will get me a job because, in case you didn't realise, it results in a qualification - of which most jobs require

Sure, I could go and work in tesco without a degree, but I don't want t, I want a job and career that I love and enjoy doing.

You obviously work in a field that does not require a degree.

re DD's development - fair enough if your daughter is too, but at least I can claim the credit for it, not her childminder.

and if you don't think you're better than me, then why are you putting me down for only working part time?

I don't pay childcare, so can't be sure of the costs, but I understand it ranges from around £120-£300 per week for each child - is that right?

On that basis, even working full time, with a salary of say £40k (ha!) a single parent with 2 children is still going to have to rely on tax credits to pay the bills.

full time childcare about £1000-£1200 a month round here.

I don't think it's on to call a fellow mother lazy. Working is a doss compared to looking after chidren IMO. Cordonbleugh sounds like she has a lot on her plate.

I don;t want to get embroiled in this though, oojamaflip is right, as mothers whatever we do is going to be wrong.

yea that's about right wubbly - childcare cost vary depending on where you live and what type of provider you use.

There are no full time jobs in this area with an annual salary of over £25k, and even they are specialist jobs that require specific qualifications and experience.

So yes even if I worked full time, I would still be reliant on tax credits to help with childcare.

haha I have rightmove bookmarked for property porn!

Well, if I stay on full benefits, I'm a lazy scrounger, if I get a part time job, I'm still lazy, and clearly not working hard enough! So yes you're right oojamaflip and imsonottelling - nothing I do is the right thing. Oh, unless it's working full time of course.

I didn't realise working my ass off to get a degree in my spare time was a luxury though

"oh and foureleven, on your profile, you claim to be "fiercely independent and self-sufficient"

I take no money from him, I make him live in a house far smaller than we could do because I insist on paying half of the rent/ bills etc. So thanks but I am independant, fiercly so.

I am interested to know what degree you are doing that is going to get you a job?
Just to point out that I don?t think you are a better person if you earn more money, but I do think you are a better person if you go to work and earn money for your family for as many hours as you can rather than take tax credits. Bottom line ? staying at home with kids and an education past 18 IS a luxury. If you can?t afford to do it, you shouldn?t do it.

Seeing as this is the Tax Credits thread, here's a link to the BBC piece clarifying the proposed changes by Lib Dems and Tories. Puts the changes in context with the other changes they are proposing to the tax system.

here

Riven, I beleive you and your DH care for a child with a disability. I have said several times (although I think its flippin obvious) that this is a completely different situation.

Riven - no-one is talking about people in the situation that you and your family are in. No-one.

if you only pay half the rent/bills, and share a home with another adult who helps around the house and with the children, then no, you are not "fiercely independent" are you? because you rely on another wage, and another person.

My degree is in health and social care. True, to get into that field, I could work first as a cleaner in a care facility, then as an HCA, but if I wanted to progress, I would need to train as a nurse (degree) or a midwife (degree) or if I wanted to be a health visitor I would need a degree in nursing or midwifery plus post grad qualifications.

To be a social worker you need a degree, to be a psychologist you need a degree, to be a teacher, you need a degree.........the list goes on!

No, I can't afford to work part time and complete a degree without financial support from the government, but if I didn't get that support, I would remain on income support for the rest of my life. Or get a low paid full time job, which doesn't require me to have a brain and use it in which case, I would still need tax credits to top up my income.

So your point is invalid tbh. I am incredibly lucky that I am able to get this financial help to give me the tools I need to get a full time job at the end of it. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

but foureleven, how can a single parent afford to work full time, taking into account childcare costs? Unless of course, they've got family who can take on the childcare for nothing?

On a salary of £40k, which is way, way above the national 'average' (and frankly unrealistic for most people) the take home weekly pay amounts to around £535 - a hefty sum. Taking an average estimate of £200 a week, for 2 children that's leaving you with just £135 to house yourself, pay utilities, council tax, food and clothes, travelling etc. If you use the national 'average' salary of around £31k (still pretty unrealistic in my view) you'd have £10 left in your pocket after your 40 hours!

I don't honestly see how that is feasible or am I missing something?

cordonbleugh - So you cant be independant and married or with a partner?

It's also absolute rot that a degree doesn't open doors for you.

My DH is dyslexic and left school with few qualifications. He worked shitty jobs all his life until he took his degree. He's now doubled his salary in the last 2 years. He still doesn't earn a fortune by any means, but he's on a career path now and has a real opportunity to advance further in his field.

cordonbleurgh, I think you're a great example of why tax credits work, you've been given a chance and have seized it with both hands. I've no doubt that over the years to come you'll more than pay back what you've received in taxes. Good luck to you!

not in the purest sense of the word, no.

You rely on your partner to pay half of all your outgoings, I presume he does things around the house? And is involved with his children?

Therefore, you rely on another human being to live the lifestyle you have chosen.

You may be independent in the sense that you are your own person, you are not controlled by anyone, you have your own thoughts and feelings etc.

But that's not what we're talking about here.
Single parents have to do it all ALONE you are not alone, you have a partner to help you.

exactly wubbly, now I have a job, even though the amount of tax I pay will be minimal, given that my annual salary is only £7042, I can start paying back what I've had from tax payers money for the last few years. And when I go full time, I can pay even more back in taxes. As strange as it sounds, I'm actually looking forward to paying taxes again, because I'll be bloody proud to be able to say that I pay my taxes in order to help people less fortunate than me.

ANYWAY - Cancel all tax credits,benefits etc. and have a Citizens Pension/National Income like the Greens propose. Save billions in bureaucracy, no more whining about scroungers, resources freed up to help those who actually need extra help.

Again - I WAS alone for For 2 years, and I worked full time. 20k salary, childcare costs £800. TC paid a lot of this for me, I was very grateful and worked every hour god sent.

My profile description was nothing to do with this arguement, I was refering to my personality. I have a naturally independent personality. Living with a man doesn?t mean that is any different.

ANYWAY