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Original poster

Depressed lefties sign in here...

878 replies

WilfSell · 02/05/2010 20:20

...on the grounds that if we assume there will be a Tory govt, then the crowing triumphalism of all the Chinless Wonders and Thrusting Monetarists and Nasty Racists who'll poke in here to crow and gloat, will somehow force a cosmic rift in the time-space continuum. And it will be like 1992 all over again but the other way round.

I fear the best we can hope for is a hung parliament.

I've suggested hemlock for the Election Night supper thread...

OP posts:
clemette · 02/05/2010 23:10

I think all "lefties" have regarded Murdoch with, at the very least mistrust, for as long as we can remember.
Can't say I celebrated the Sun backing Blair.
Anyway, you are on a wind up, and I should be in bed...

Heathcliffscathy · 02/05/2010 23:10

no sorry bonzo, as much as it will make you all irritated and hating of me, you all deserve a good kick up the backside for moping when you should be out there activisiming. out there on mn. out there in rl. for labour if you must. but you are FEEDING the fantasy that we're going to get DC. don't you see that?

said · 02/05/2010 23:12

Lots of us have never bought into any Murdoch products.

Ninjacat · 02/05/2010 23:13

Revolution?

Murdoch is doing nothing new. Lets remember the Daily hate Mail backed Hitler in the 30s.

Ninjacat · 02/05/2010 23:14

sorry i meant Daily hate Mail

missmoopy · 02/05/2010 23:15

Hello! Just adding my name to thread so come next Friday I can sob on your shoulders.

Heathcliffscathy · 02/05/2010 23:16

i don't think i'll be allowed in to sob will i? not that i'll be sobbing because it will be GOOD!

onebatmother · 02/05/2010 23:16

Sophable, I have to go to bed, but I stand by my assertion that the country we live in now is infinitely better than the one we left in May 1997.

The LD's, if they're involved in some form of coalition, will be once again able to claim the benefit of futuresight, without the responsibility of power.

Janos · 02/05/2010 23:17

Yes, press have always been thus minded, been going on for years.

Anyone else remember the 1992 election and the Sun headline 'If Kinnock wins the election, will the last person left in Britain please turn out the lights?'

atlantis · 02/05/2010 23:20

"Anyone else remember the 1992 election and the Sun headline 'If Kinnock wins the election, will the last person left in Britain please turn out the lights?' "

Remember it, I still have the copy!

claig · 02/05/2010 23:26

onebatmother we are going through the biggest financial crisis since the 1930s. We were better off in 1997

Heathcliffscathy · 02/05/2010 23:27

onebat...the gap between rich and poor has got bigger, social mobility is worse, and more children are living in poverty.

that's fucking grim. but true. and on YOUR criteria a total failure.

Janos · 02/05/2010 23:29

Interesting to look at voting intentions in Scotland..conservatives currently in 4th place according to yougov polls here

zippy539 · 02/05/2010 23:30

alysonpeaches - you have summed it up perfectly. That was what it was like and what it will be like again.

atlantis · 02/05/2010 23:35

"Interesting to look at voting intentions in Scotland..conservatives currently in 4th place according to yougov polls here "

It wants me to update my browser to firefox. I hate firefox.

Janos could you just give the stats please?

onebatmother · 02/05/2010 23:35

YOU were better off, claig. Not everyone else. And in any case, that's not the only criteria, and I gather there's been a bit of a global thing kicking off.

Soph = social mobility has declined, which is a failure. But the decline, and the failure, could have been infinitely worse.

You want socialism, so do I - but that's not what we've had or what we will have if we get a LibDem govt (which we won't get. There\s no point using that frame of reference.

We need to try and judge like for like. What would LibDem social policies have done differently, but also would they have been accomplishable given the size of the pot?

animula · 02/05/2010 23:37

Sophable - I have to take issue with that. The gap between rich and poor widening is a global phenomenon - and the fact that we seem to have a good helping of the very wealthy in GB is a part of that.

Comparatively, Britain has fared better that most first world countries in stopping that gap widening.

I'm so sorry I can't link but someone has brought out a properly researched study on this. I didn't not down names, because I'm trying not to get distracted from work (ha!) - which is a bit poor - but, still, I think it does tie in with what we have experienced, which is a government that has done a fair old bit.

But ... you're right, it hasn't been nearly enough, and it has, always, been with a view to what the more conservative portion of their vote would stand for. And it has been (massively) limited by a timorousness as regards wealth redistribution.

Which is a real, real shame. And I have been very angry about that. And the war.

happikidz · 02/05/2010 23:37

Sophable, your stats are wrong. Every single one, utter nonsense. Sorry but they are, even though they are in the Tory manifesto. That's exactly why I don;t trust them. If they cared about inequality, they would make sure the stats accurately.

Only the last of the 3 statements you make can be measured with a single indicator. The first two are more complex and have many measures so the Tories (as they know) can say these things then slink away having confused everybody. But the last one is measured by three very specific metrics relating to absolute and relative child poverty. It is true that during the recession, child poverty has either worsened or been stable on these three measures but it has indubitably reduced greatly since 1997, though of course not far enough. The fact that it stops coming down during a recesison indicates the danger for poverty of the current situation.

Janos · 02/05/2010 23:40

Sure atlantis, latest poll says Labour 36%, SNP 23% Lib-Dems 23% and Conservatives at 14%.

That's from 28th April though so quite possibly different now, will see if I can anything more up to date.

Janos · 02/05/2010 23:42

Can't find any advance on 28th April for Scottish voting intentions, sorry.

It's past my bedtime...

atlantis · 02/05/2010 23:46

"alysonpeaches "

That's what you experienced. My reality (and that of my friends and family) was much different.

I remember the miners strike, I remember the collecting tins and people dropping food into trolly's outside sainsbury's, but I also remember the unions trying to bring down the government and that Bloody Scargill hanging the miners out to be slaughtered, he knew it was coming and he didn't give a .
( I also don't remember Labour reopening the mines in the last 13 years).

I remember the street parties, neighbours looking after each other, the pensioners looked in on, the kids watched out on the street, knife crime hardly unheard off (especially not with teens ), old folk sitting outside on fold up chairs on their doorsteps (not bolted and chained in fear behind their doors), when coppers were allowed to catch criminals (not stuck doing paperwork) coach trips to the coast that pensioners could afford (now they choose between food and heating).

I would love to go back to the 80's.

Heathcliffscathy · 02/05/2010 23:49

janos, sadly those figures aren't as heartening as one would hope: scotland is a barren wasteland for the tories...

i'm getting it on all sides now...dh is going all cynical on me.

i'm going to run out of steam before thurs i just know it (sighs of relief all round).

can't we feel a tiny bit excited and hopeful? there is no foregone conclusion here...

atlantis · 02/05/2010 23:50

"latest poll says Labour 36%, SNP 23% Lib-Dems 23% and Conservatives at 14%.
"

Thank you Janos.

I'm actually very surprised by this I thought the SNP would be doing much better.

vesela · 02/05/2010 23:53

Janos - NC hasn't stated he'd join forces with DC. The Guardian's pro-Labour political editor tried to report something along those lines, but he was totally twisting what NC said in an interview with Andrew Marr re. the stupidity of a system that would allow someone to carry on in Downing St. if his party had come third in the popular vote.

Basically, the LDs would like to replace Labour as the main opposition to the Tories. It's a liberal left party that is far more united than people think.

animula · 02/05/2010 23:53

80s flashbacks - great.

I remember being a graduate unable to get a job and temping at a firm with lots and lots of 'rahs. All talking about their skiing holidays.

And working in various badly-paid, social conscience type jobs and being told I was a loser for doing so, and that anyone who worked in any such low-paid job (including health services) was similarly a loser. Because money was the only marker of value, and the ranks of the vilified unemployed were a reminder of what happened if you didn't sign up to that world-view.

And papers filled with people in positions of responsibility pouring forth hate-filled nonsense, and it being OK to do so, because they were taking their lead from the party in power.

Glorious, glorious days.