Europhobe or Europhile?

[MrIC]

I've been a Europhile since I was a teenager and really like the "idea" of the EU (admittedly the reality can sometimes be annoying). I'm British, born in Britain to British parents, and I currently live in Spain - I've also visited 16 other EU countries.

I love the fact that I have the right to live and work anywhere in the EU, that I don't need a visa, and that I can get healthcare should I need it. I believe that the EU has played a major role in developing Europe's (and by extension Britian's) economy and improving the quality of life of 100s of millions of people.

I'd really like to hear from Europhobe's who have a genuine, rational objection to the EU and their reasons.

www.fivechinesecrackers.com/2010/01/winterval-beast-that-wouldnt-die.html

And?

By WidowWadman Fri 02-Apr-10 14:16:55
I don't really see what the EU has to do with your ugly bigotted xenophobic rant.

(Oh, and regarding the "English Race" you might want to read up on history - Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Romans, Normans, Vikings and the few Celts which haven't been driven out- even your Royal family is German...)

Yea see what i mean. Instead of realising we feel threatened, instead of recognising our concerns, you just call us racist for doing what every one else does, standing up for there own culture.

And yes, the english race is a product of immigration, like every other race. Except we the English were formed as a nation when we got our first King in 927 AD. So recognise we the english have a history that goes back 2000 years. We have a distinct culture, a history, and distinct social way, traditions and customs.

Your response is the racist bigoted one. You're the anti-english bigot who simply pushes my point of view aside, gives it no credence, ignores my concerns, my fears, and my alarm, and pretends that my culture doesnt matter and isnt under threat.

Well guess what, yes it is, and until you recognise that, until YOU give MY culture the same consideration that OUR laws give YOUR culture, then calling ME a racist is laughable. YOU'RE the racist here. YOUR the one that sticks two fingers up at me when i object to my culture being diminished.

Labour has managed to keep the lid on the immigration debate for 14 years by this tactic, it is not racist to talk about immigration and object to it, and its not racist to be alarmed that my culture is being swept away.

now wake up to whats going on, because the longer you ignore us and walk all over us, the worse its going to get, you anti-english racist bigot.

"Except we the English were formed as a nation when we got our first King in 927 AD So recognise we the english have a history that goes back 2000 years."

So you live in 2927 AD? Do you have sonic screwdriver, too?

Ah, so you have no answers to my previous post, except to come up with something facile. There were peope living here on these islands well before 0 AD, you idiot.

So if that is your only answer, WidowWadman, we may assume you cannot deny or refute any of the accusations in my previous post you are indeed an anti-english racist bigot, who sticks two fingers up at my english culture ?

Just as we thought.

I like the free movement of goods and people across borders but the Euro is an economic disaster waitng to happen (as Portugal,Ireland, Greece and Spain are now finding out). I do not like the political fudge, corruption and the fact the UK is a massive net contributor financially which other countries live off.

I think we should renegotiate our terms of membership as it seems the Germans are now finally in the process of doing.

Its too late. The Lisbon Treaty basically gives the EU the right to do what the hell it likes, including giving itself any new powers it wants without any further argument or vote.

"There were peope living here on these islands well before 0 AD, you idiot."

Yes. They weren't English, though.

lincstash, what's your definition of immigrants flaunting their culture/shoving it down people's throats? What things come under that heading?

Scary, ABD, Bonsoir, MrIC you name it have been able to talk sensibly & openly about the pros & cons of the EU for some time on this thread

But with great excitement, you marched in with your oft repeated 'I'm the only immigrant in the village' schtick (tho' Scary politely pointed out you aren't really).

Widowwadman, I think you fully expected to have a round of applause for shouting Lincstash down, throwing abuse, and generally imposing rude demands. Believe me, the kneejerk "RACIST!" shoutdown you employed doesn't actually work much any more in discussions about immigration, other than to drive yet more people into the arms of the BNP.

You might want to think about why Lincs believes you are at heart an "anti-english racist bigot, who sticks two fingers up at my english culture".

Well we have instances where you have moslems demanding sharia law, immigrants objecting to English christians wearing crosses, or objecting to the english flag. The use of the veil is objectionable to many english people, and you have cases where moslem women demand special treatment when it come to that, such as wearing it when trying to teach children in our schools, or refusing to go through full body scanners at airports because 'its againts there religion'. And you have millions of immigrants who refuse to learn english and demand we learn there language instead - how arrogant, how insulting!!

Then you have foreign criminals using his country to hide from the police, immigrants who commit crimes and then expect to remains nhere, one classic case is Lercio Chindamo, a vile italian thug who knifed a headmaster to death, yet demands to remain here. In peterborough, we have immigrants killing swans and eating them ,which is an insult to the Queen, and a vile practice.

A particularly obnoxious bit of PC bollox was Birminghams invented 'Wintermass' nonsense. Lets get this clear. The Church of England is the nation religion. The Anglican church is one of the cornerstones of State ( Anglican prayers are said in parliament every day), and the Queen is the head of the church. So to try and abolish Christmas in this was was an insult to the entire establishment of Church, State and Monarchy.

When you move to a new country and a new culture, you should have respect for your new host. You should learn there values, learn there customs and culture, and learn there language. Foreigners expect it of us in there countries, and we are entitled to the same respect for our society. its not too much to ask.

A lot of countries will not let you emigrate there unless you have money in the bank and a job, and should you become unemployed you are deported after 6 months. Many countries will not let foreigners own businesses or property. I think thats a superb idea and should be implemented here.

If you want to move here fine. Just make sure you INTEGRATE in our society have respect for English culture and customs and dont sponge off our system. Many immigrants have managed it, but vast numbers dont. And its the latter ones i object to.

Catinthehat, what have I demanded so rudely?

What do linctash's rants have to do with the freedom of movement in the EU?

And where have I shown racism?

Nah, WW, not playing that game, sorry!

I think you need to do your own research. What about a bit of honest self examination first of all - perhaps it would do you a bit of good?

eg: You do seem to throw out lots of irrelevant questions when your own issues are under the lens. Maybe you think it deflects unwelcome examination away from you? (Hint: It doesn't)

Your failure to recognize my right to defend my culture, and your attempt to suppress my right defend my culture, makes you a racist, an anti english racist.

It doesnt work anymore, you cant stop the debate on immigration by calling me racist for defending my culture like everyone else does, and you cant go on ignoring my right to preserve and maintain my culture, traditions and values.

I demand the same respect for my culture as other minority cultures already enjoy, currently to the detriment of my culture. And i demand the recognition that my culture is the culture of 95% of the population, and the culture of this host country, and therefore comes first, since we are a democracy, and democracy is the rule of the majority.

Agree with ABD, but am very glad we are not part of Schengen. There should be some means of tracking who comes in and out, especially in the current climate. The other aspect of Schengen of course was the job losses. My cleaning lady was a customs officer in Poland; come Schengen, she and her husband lost their jobs, moved to Brussels, and she cleans houses. It seems a waste of her degree to me.

I also agree to an extent with Lincstash. In the furore about the cartoons of the prophet Muhammad, demonstrators were allowed to proceed through the streets of London brandishing placards calling for beheadings and death to those who had published these cartoons. If a non-Muslim had tried that - what would the response have been? Those who protested may have been third or fourth generation Brits, I don't know; but, in the UK we do not normally call for the murder of those who poke fun at our beliefs, we shrug our shoulders, let them laugh and carry on.

I also don't like some of the practices that immigrant communities bring with them such as Female Genital Mutilation.

The Shari'a debate has been ongoing for along time - it was being discussed in 1987 when I was doing my degree. If the Shari'a courts were like the Bet Din and dealt with food laws and religious divorces, then may be there would be no problem, but they want from what I have read to be involved in settling family disputes, wills, divorce settlements and custody of the children; for which we already have courts and legal processes in place. The law of the land should be supreme (except if it is EU law).

Yes, the law of the land is the Queens law, and has been for a thousand years. No other law can be above it or even equal to it, especially not islamic law.

Furthermore, sharia law is sexist and biassed massively against women, and is therefore unfair, unjust and unacceptable to all women in this country irrespective of culture.

We will not accept the existence of sharia courts in the UK, not one single one, not for one single day. Accept the established law of this land, or go live somewhere else.

Lincstash - there are 85 (I think) Sharia courts already operating in the UK afaik.

yes, its an outrage. Classic example of sticking two fingers up at us and this country and its systems.

Oh look, another example http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1263198/Betrayed-Iraq-hero-placed-criminals-queue-home.html here

British war hero, did seven months in Iraq, risking his life for Blairs Illegal War, left the army, and the local council tells him he made himself and his family homeless, and has put him at the back of the queue, after asylum seekers and criminal.

The man is a hero, hes done his bit for queen and country, he a british born national, and we owe him all that. He should go to the top of the list IN FRONT of all the immigrants, who have done nothing for us.

I'm a Europhile,

If you go over to Europe then you see the integration ... transport, money etc it's only greed that spoils the system , and that is down to human nature . Nothing we can do about that . as for the UK not being in the europe , I find that very sad. Gone are the days we could survive in the world by our selves, gone our the days when we forced the majority of the world to speak English, gone are the days when we ruled our land with an iron fist .
Those days can never come back , but we can / must move on...

We dont need Europe, we have the 5th largest economy in the world. if we had joined the euro, we'd be well stuffed now, just like greece, because they cant devalue there currency or change the interest rate, nor can they do quantative easing.

And what makes you think any other nation is going to act in our interest? You only have to use your eyes and watch and you see in the EU its still every nation for itself. Take for example the 3 year long illegal ban on our beef after the BSE crisis by the french, they french saw there opportunity to destroy our beef industry and seized it with both hands, and stuck the knife in. We drop our guard for one second and the french and germans will have us.

Past history tells us you cannot trust the french or germans and recent experience confirms it.

People aren't still banging on about "Winterval" are they? That was just a marketing exercise, it wasn't meant to replace christmas. Can't believe anyone falls for that shite still.

I'm Irish. We fecking LOVE the EU.

Europhile.

I'm Irish, lived in England for ten years and now live in France.

Obviously being Irish I second runnybottom's sentiments.

I agree with Bonsoir's sentiments too that the intentions with which it was set up should never be forgotten. Rampant nationalism was a factor in the lead up to two World Wars and the EU may prevent something similar ever happening again in Europe.

That doesn't mean anyone loses personal sovereignty.

I don't really have anything new to the add to the argument - yes the EU is flawed at many levels - but for me personally it has been a very positive factor in my life. That may be about as simplistic an argument as I can come up with!

He probably was a viking, they used to be buried with the things they woudl need in Valhalla, like bows, axes, boats, chariots, horse....

i have no idea why they post above ended up in THIS thread..........