Europhobe or Europhile?

[MrIC]

I've been a Europhile since I was a teenager and really like the "idea" of the EU (admittedly the reality can sometimes be annoying). I'm British, born in Britain to British parents, and I currently live in Spain - I've also visited 16 other EU countries.

I love the fact that I have the right to live and work anywhere in the EU, that I don't need a visa, and that I can get healthcare should I need it. I believe that the EU has played a major role in developing Europe's (and by extension Britian's) economy and improving the quality of life of 100s of millions of people.

I'd really like to hear from Europhobe's who have a genuine, rational objection to the EU and their reasons.

Your 10 truths are tosh, by the way. I have to go to the (european) supermarket, if Ive got time later, Ill pull them apart 1 by 1. If I can be arsed. Think for yourself, please, and try not to be so scared.
Also, maybe you would like to live in a european country for a year or two, you might realise that things are rather different from how you think they are.

linctash, to be honest I can't be arsed to pull it apart line by line. Why should I if you can't be even arsed to credit who's written it in the first place?

"I don't get how having a different system of weights and measures can affect your national identity (I still feel Irish since they switched over)."

The metrication has nowt to do with the EU anyway.

hansard.millbanksystems.com/written_answers/1965/may/24/weights-and-measures-metric-system#S5CV0713P 019650524CWA_171

Above link is to a house of commons debate from 1965, which was 8 years before the UK joined EU, in which the British Industry made it clear that the metric system would be better for the British Industry as it would help increase exports sales.

It already had been legal since 1864 anyway.

The "ten truths" stuff comes from a website run by David Noakes, an ex-candidate for the UKIP leadership.

He left UKIP claiming that it had been infiltrated by EU moles.

According to UKIP Watch, Noakes has also alleged that David Cameron has family links to the Nazi party.

Sounds like the kind of guy we should sit up and take notice of.

earthstar I agree that the terms Europhobe and Europhile are misleading and don't allow for the breadth of possible positions.

For example, I also believe that the EU is undemocratic, over-bureaucratic and probably corrupt. But it's also very new and it will take a while to improve. I prefer the "idea" of the EU to the reality - what it could be, rather than what it is.

linctash you've already made your position quite clear. You don't like foreigners - that's not twisting your words, you stated as much. Which is why I'm in favour of the EU; the more we get to know our neighbours, trading partners and (in my case at least) close friends the rarer xenophobia like yours will become.

'For example, I also believe that the EU is undemocratic, over-bureaucratic and probably corrupt. But it's also very new and it will take a while to improve.' Not that new in that plenty of people have made shedloads from it (the Kinnocks for example?). How long do we need to wait for it to improve? How does spending money on the creation of a comic book featuring workers from the EU in Africa for instance help anyone? (see Daily Telegraph, 20/02/10)

If a business failed to get it's accounts signed off for years, it would fold, or be investigated - why hasn't that happened with the EU?

I have no problem with a loose federation of trading partners, but I do NOT want closer political, monetary and legal integration.

@MRIC

"Which is why I'm in favour of the EU; the more we get to know our neighbours, trading partners and (in my case at least) close friends the rarer xenophobia like yours will become."

Weve been there and done that - didnt you ever do history in school. The history of these islands tells us that the french will destroy us given the chance - do you really want me to list the time they have tried to invade us, and the times they have assisted out enemies, all the times weve caught them selling arms to our opponents - it was even the frnch wgo supplied arms to the irish rebellion in the middle of WW1 in 1916 - the same time we were saving there necks once again from another german invasion!!!

History tells us that all nations are different in there nature, and nations never change in there characters. The aims of the French and Germans are the same now as they were in the 18th century. These aims include european domination and the destruction of england, the old enemy.

You only have to look at the way the EU works to see what the french are like - they break the rules whenever it suits them, when they strike its always aimed so only the english suffer - funny how most of the strikes occur only a channel ports. The classic example of the picking and choosing of the rules was the illegal ban on our beef they conducted for years, with the sole aim of burying our beef export industry - permanently.

We already KNOW what there like, thats why we dont like them, and we dont trust them, and we would be fools to hand control of our nation over to them. Its you thats behind in this area.

Lincstash I am beginning to wonder if you are for real. Do you express these views out loud in RL? I have never heard anyone talking like you.

scaryteacher, if the UK applied the same standards to its accounts that the EU does, they wouldn't ever be signed off either.

"Lincstash I am beginning to wonder if you are for real. Do you express these views out loud in RL? I have never heard anyone talking like you."

Pendulum, you need to get out more.

Lincstash you are confused about who the English are. The English are Germans, those Germans that you don't like. The English are Anglo-Saxons, England is a German word and English is a Germanic language, with 40% French words like parliament and beef. The English did not originate on this island, your ancestors are in Germany. Go and visit Germany, they will welcome you and you will learn about your heritage.

The French already conquered us in 1066. Most of our aristocracy have French names and are of French origin, coming over with the Norman invasion.

Churchill was one of them. Churchill was so keen on France that in 1940 he proposed union of England and France, as Ted Heath, a man who knew him well, will tell you

"Churchill to have said otherwise, for this was the same man who in June 1940, as France was succumbing to German invasion, wrote, published and proposed, with the full support of his War Cabinet, the Declaration of Union between Great Britain and France, stating: "The two governments declare that France and Great Britain shall no longer be two nations, but one Franco-British Union. The constitution of the Union will provide for joint organs of defence, foreign, financial and economic policies. Every citizen of France will enjoy immediately citizenship of Great Britain; every British subject will become a citizen of France." Unfortunately the French were being overwhelmed by the Germans and could not respond to his proposal."

www.independent.co.uk/opinion/a-eurosceptic-churchill-never-1365239.html

Union of Britain and France was discussed again in 1956 when Anthony Eden was in power.
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/jan/16/france.past

The French aren't running the EU. The French people don't trust the EU, that's why they voted against it. But the people who are running the EU told the French politicians to hold the vote again, until the French people got it right.

You've got it wrong, the French are in charge of diddley squat. So your fears about the French are misplaced and your statement below is misguided.
"We already KNOW what there like, thats why we dont like them, and we dont trust them, and we would be fools to hand control of our nation over to them."

You need to find out who is in charge.

Has anyone read "Bloody Foreigners: The Story of Immigration to Britain" by Robert Winder? It's a fascinating book, and particularly interesting on the role played by foreigners in the development of the British economy (starting with the English brewing industry, which wouldn't have been up to much without Flemish immigrants).

I love Europe but hate the EU, I used to work in Strasbourg, and have lots of German and French friends. I just think that EU membership is too expensive especially now that the UK owes so much money. At the moment we pay £45,000,000 a day but hidden away in last month's budget was the fact that our contribution is set to double over the next two years. Someone told me that Norway only has to pay £150,000,000 a year to trade with the EU which is about 100 times less than what the UK have to pay.

At the same time we are being told that drugs to combat cancer, Alzheimer's disease, rheumatoid arthritis and osteoporosis, which are widely available in the Europe, are too expensive for our GPs to prescribe. There?s Nikki Phelps, 37, and her husband having to sell their house in order to pay for the cancer drug she needs so that she can have a few more years with her 2 year old twin boys. It would only cost the NHS £100 per day to extend her life and that of many others. Some of the £45,000,000 per day we pay the EU would help save and/or prolong a lot of lives.

Precisely. I live just outside Brussels and enjoy it, but it is the cost of the EU that annoys me and the wastage.

In the case of NHS spend - it would make sense to look at how the NHS uses its budget and how they could maximise what they can buy, before blaming the cost of the EU for her not getting the cancer drug.

The point obviously being that if we has £450,000,000 more per day for the NHS, then the drug could be afforded.

Not neccessarily, it might be just spent on more admin or other stuff.