Greens adopt policy treating Zionism as racism (part 2)

[Twiglets1]

Follow on from previous thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/politics/5585462-greens-adopt-policy-treating-zionism-as-racism?page=40&reply=155235707

Sure. I don’t understand people who strongly support a party enough to join it anyway (I’m not a joiner), but if you have joined and find it a part of your identity then leaving may not be be as easy as all that. Stay and change from within etc etc. Plenty stayed in Labour despite Corbyn as leader.

That's you.

I can identify with those that have joined membership of something they now want to leave but will do so when their membership lapses or when they get around to cancelling the direct debit - which may take months.

Stay and change from within sounds exhausting - I wouldn't bother personally, I would just leave and then decide if I wanted to join another party or not.

That's me.

If you can leave so easily, why bother joining in the first place?

It's not that deep. Not everyone becomes a member of a political party and it then becomes "a part of your identity".

My son is an example. He became a member of the Labour Party when he got a cheap student rate. If they did something he really didn't like he wouldn't bother to renew his membership. Not that different to letting his gym membership lapse if it became something he was no longer interested in.

Sure, but expecting those who have joined for other reasons are going to find it more difficult to leave, particularly if it is something they have invested time and effort into, and/or get something out of.

Yes of course some will find it difficult to leave and some will stay to fight from within. But equally, some will leave because the Green party no longer feels like a good fit for them.

That’s a hugely optimistic take on the future TBF. I suspect you are playing devil’s advocate here, but for those who might not be: Polanski is not a dictator, so it doesn’t actually matter whether he agrees with the policy or not, since it’s now their official policy - and the fact that he stayed away during the vote rather than daring to vote against it is hugely significant IMO.

It suggests that he is in a position of extreme weakness and preferred to remain (nominally) at the head of the party rather than try to influence it. Which invalidates the claims that it will “probably” be changed and “doesn’t actually mean anything”.

Oh dear, imagine thinking Gaza is the most important issue of the day for people in the UK. They sound very ideological and deluded.

I think there is a difference there as the Labour movement is far more longstanding and a larger m9vement than The Greens. It's more or less impossible to take over be cause there are so many differing views. The Greens have been taken over, and quite easily, in the space of a year by activists. Even if half of the 200000 that joined are activists who joined to vote the Zionism policy in, that is more than the 60,000 who were already there. According to Polanski, most of the post 2025 members agree with the policy.

I also suspect @noblegiraffe was playing devil's advocate.

Makes for a lively discussion anyway.

No I wouldn't either, and I'm not a ' joiner' either, but some people are, especially if it's cheap and gives them immediate voting rights and people are egging them on, as it seems Greens for Palestine did in this case.

It is, because it’s set the Gaza faction on an inevitable collision course with the genderists and “queerphobia” faction.

Sure, I wouldn’t stay in the antisemitic party (not that I’d have joined in the first place) but I’m mulling the suggestion that there’s no reason for Greens to stay in the antisemitic party which I don’t think is strictly true. Caroline Lucas and Adrian Ramsey are prominent examples of people who have a lot invested in it.

I don't believe they are anti Semitic, anti Zionists and and anti Semitic are two entirely different things.

Corbyn wasn't either he just opposed the Israeli government. If you can't oppose something without being labelled then we truly are losing the right to free speech.

Has the green party been hijacked... possibly yes but you can't label all it's members the same. I oppose halal meat slaughter in the UK...but I don't opposed the right to follow islam... my beliefs are religious beliefs have no part in how the state is run and the state should not consider religious beliefs when passing laws. 100% Secular and religion is 100% private and must adhere to state rules.

I'm wouldnt vote to ban religion as it's a free country but the idea that a religion gives you some protective rights for me is intolerable. You are a child of the state and not some imaginative friend.

They voted to have as party policy wiping the world’s only Jewish state off the map.

Even Corbyn admitted that antisemites often use the word Zionist as a code word for Jew. It’s a shame that there are still some who either haven’t cottoned on or are stupid enough to believe that people can’t see this.

The KKK coined the term 'Zio's'. I doubt they really meant to protest against a government they didn't like or Israeli settlers.

If they were also campaigning for all religious States ( mostly Islamic, but also technically the UK) to be abolished then fine. How about Iran? It used to be part of Mesopotamia. They are now extremely brutal. How about campaigning to not only get rid of the Ayatollahs but eliminate Iran and subsume it into Iraq? Let's get rid of Pakistan and subsume them back into India instead of just protesting about journalists and opposition politicians being disappeared?

Jewish members can now be sancioned by the party for attending a zionist-aligned synagogue - which is most of them by the way. The want the world's only Jewish state to be dismantled and are calling the majority of Jews in the UK racist. And the woman who out it forward is pals with a would-be Al-Qaeda terrorist.

But the reason Iran is what it is is because the Americans and British put in place a dictator who was equally brutal and was basically removed.

Regardless I've never said we should start reversing decisions made decades ago. Israel is there to stay but the danger is actually now internal rather from the outside and it's the result of it's government and it's politics.

You think the danger to Israel is internal and not Iran and its proxies?

And have you not considered the chance of Arab parties forming a majority in Israel? You are so lost in the Iran thing that you have forgotten about politics. Id argue that is a huge risk for Israel.

Forming a majority? They currently have what, 19 seats? And this is a bigger threat to Israel to the country they are currently at war with and who have actively been trying to destroy them? “Lost in the Iran thing” when they are firing rockets as opposed to campaigning in elections.

I mean, in the very long term what will finish Israel is population replacement - I guess this is why IVF is freely available there.

“Zionists believe in the right of the Jewish people to national self-determination and sovereignty in their ancestral homeland (the Land of Israel, centred around historical Zion/Jerusalem“

• Jewish Self-Determination: Jews constitute a distinct nation and deserve a sovereign home where they can live free from persecution, pogroms, and antisemitism.
• Right to Statehood: Support for the existence, safety, and legitimacy of the State of Israel as a Jewish homeland.
• Historical and Cultural Ties: Deep historical, religious, and ancestral connections linking the Jewish people to Judea and Jerusalem

Doesn't this definition - if you substitute nationalities/regions as appropriate - generally apply to virtually every nation on Earth? I certainly feel this same way about my own country of birth and although I’m not Jewish, I also believe in it for Israel too. So I guess that makes me a Christian Zionist?

I was tempted to set up my Halloween decorations this year as the Green party conference.

Could have used the life sized skeletons and figures I have for school disco plus put up signs saying Green party conference

In the end I decided not to because these nut jobs as you all know from on mumsnet have no sense of humour. Didn't want a window smashed or car tyres let down

Haha chances of them seeing the funny side approximately zero.