Should non-citizens pay the same tax if excluded from benefits?

[InWithPeaceOutWithStress]

Reform’s latest policy proposals include cutting all benefits for foreign nationals including EU nationals with leave to remain.

My partner is an EU citizen with indefinite leave to remain. He’s never claimed any benefits but you never know what’s round the corner.

It seems unfair to expect him to continue paying the same rate of national insurance and income tax if he isn’t entitled to the same benefits I’d be entitled to. Have Reform thought that through?

If our household isn’t entitled to the same safety net, we shouldn’t have to pay the same rates of national insurance and income tax.

I do appreciate there is a huge shortage of jobs across the Uk, especially for young people.
And why should anyone have to struggle for long, in a minimum wage job.
Near where I live, they are desperate for nursing home workers, home care workers, Teaching Assistants etc. Is this typical everywhere, or only in certain areas?

The DWP today released figures stating almost 1.3 million migrants are claiming UC. This is up 20k on just 1 year ago. 233k of this figure is made up of EU citizens with ILR. I thought to get ILR you had to prove you could afford to be self financing. Reported in the daily Telegraph.

Yes. It’s the cost of being here. They should pay the true cost of healthcare and take out insurance for that too. Most countries have differential benefits and payments.

Policies like this will surely discourage people from coming here. In a way it fits with the speech from Jeneric about getting unemployment benefit claimants to do litter picking or similar. They will discourage people from making claims. A few of whom might be genuine and suffer hardship.

Things happen, people made redundant, fall ill, become carers

57% of claimant are women.

Here is the full report
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/universal-credit-quarterly-statistics-29-april-2013-to-14-may-2026/universal-credit-quarterly-statistics-29-april-2013-to-14-may-2026

If you already have settled status and your circumstances change, this can happen. Settled status isn't taken away on economic grounds. Do a little reading.

Who will supervise the litter picking, do the administration? What will be the cost of such policy?

Why not pay a wage for litter picking instead?

Absolutely. If the job needs doing, pay NMW. Anything else is exploitation. People who think this is acceptable should think hard, because job loss, serious illness and disability can happen to anyone.

On another thread about benefits a poster suggested that, and I quote, "younger OAPs could act as overseers".

Echoes from the past.

That kind of detail can be worked out before the next election; they will probably say.

In the hope people won't ask for details?

You know those jobs require qualifications and experience?

Yes you do. However most people are self financing through employment. If they are made redundant, then they can claim UC the same as any other permanent UK resident.

No they don't. I know someone who has just secured a healthcare assistant job. She has no GCSEs and has never worked in health care.
What she does have is a lovely caring personality, she is hard working and has raised a family. She will be brilliant.

One of the most rude things to say to someone is ‘duh’.
There are jobs out there.
Go on Indeed and there are thousands.
But securing one of those jobs is another matter.

But it's a terrible job, awful. Long hours, poor pay, will ruin your health.

None of this is relevant. The point is that once an EU national has settled status, there is nothing in the withdrawal agreement that says it can be revoked on economic grounds. Criminal grounds, absolutely - but if an EU national with settled status loses their job, they have the same claim to support as a Brit.

Overturning that will have horrific consequences for the UK. Because the EU will come down hard, and they're bigger and more powerful than the UK.

Reform know this perfectly well. They're just throwing out populist chum to the unfashionable.

Agree.

To be clear, I don't agree with Reform's targeting of and moving the goalposts for people with ILR, and I think so many people know people who have worked and contributed here for decades that it's going to harm them politically to target them

But I don't think tax breaks for certain people who 'don't use as many services' is a terrible suggestion OP, and a slippery slope. Everything we do in society depends on the work (paid and unpaid) of others too, it's not a simple 'pay in/get out' calculation.

I think these type of jobs are the LAST ones we should be forcing people into. You can't force people to be warm and caring, and those vulnerable people amd children who depend on care workers/TAs etc need those staff to be well paid and treated- it impacts on them.

Have you not seen what Trump has done to agreements. Don't get me wrong I agree with you but please don't think Farage will play by any rules or international law

Laws can be scrubbed with the stroke of ink once In Downing Street. Judiciary can be sacked and puppets put in place. Anything can be done with the wrong person in power.

When Trump came to power I heard the same arguments, that his power would be tamed by Congress and law makers....how wrong they were

Farage is well funded, well connected and has deep deep connections to the Trump administration. Don't ever think he can't do something because of rules. He will rip up agreements and destroy anyone who gets in the way, he will reform the lords, sack judges....he will be utterly ruthless.

Of course Farage won't abide by laws. Fortunately he will never be Prime Minister.

I disagree that I’m talking about a tax break for “not using a service”.

I don’t use many services - no kids so no education and health costs for them, higher rate tax payer so I don’t claim benefits, no major health issues so not using the NHS much. However, theoretically if my circumstances changed I would be entitled to all of these.

The same should be true for people with ILR. They pay the same taxes as me so should have the same entitlement if needed. If they won’t have the same access to a safety net I believe they should have a tax break so they can pay towards critical care cover / life insurance / savings so they can cover themselves and their household if it came to that.

National Insurance contributions count towards the benefits and pensions in the table:

https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance/what-national-insurance-is-for

If those with ILR aren’t entitled to these benefits why should they pay the same rate of national insurance?

I hope you are right but I think that sort of complacency is risky. I do think Reform is in decline but that could easily change