Should non-citizens pay the same tax if excluded from benefits?

[InWithPeaceOutWithStress]

Reform’s latest policy proposals include cutting all benefits for foreign nationals including EU nationals with leave to remain.

My partner is an EU citizen with indefinite leave to remain. He’s never claimed any benefits but you never know what’s round the corner.

It seems unfair to expect him to continue paying the same rate of national insurance and income tax if he isn’t entitled to the same benefits I’d be entitled to. Have Reform thought that through?

If our household isn’t entitled to the same safety net, we shouldn’t have to pay the same rates of national insurance and income tax.

@Onmyhighhorse2

There is a very big difference between me agreeing with this specific policy and supporting Reform generally, and surely you can recognise that. I have a long list of concerns with Reform and the thought of them winning a general election is worrying. It’s just this particular policy that I do agree with.

I’m a U.K. citizen. What part of my post makes no sense to you. The part that points out that no one would pay in if they thought they wouldn’t benefit? In fact the people that pay the most tax aren’t generally eligible for benefits… I pay tons of tax and I’d never qualify for any benefit, should we all just not pay any more like the OP suggests? That is what makes no sense…

@Minasama

If you read upthread you will see that this particular poster has made similar comments elsewhere. I am not sure if it’s intentionally goady but there is a pattern emerging…

So you agree with tearing up the agreement for ILR and start goodness how lengthy negotiations with the EU again? Because you do know that UK citizens have similar rights in European countries too currently? You think this will save money?
Do you know, I think even Reform won’t actually do this. They just pretend they will as it’s such a vote winner.

If you lived in Germany you would have the same rights to German social security before Brexit as a EU national and after Brexit under the withdrawal agreement. That part made no sense unless I misunderstood your post.

Again: just because someone doesn’t agree with you, doesn’t make it Goady. Reform policies is the very definition of Goady.

Exactly. As usual, Reform wants to pit people against each other. Nasty, divisive policies.

Yes you would. If you lost your job and eventually used up your savings, you’d be eligible. If you had a serious illness and became disabled, you’d be eligible for PIP. If a loved one became ill and you were forced to give up work to care for them, you’d be eligible for carers allowance.

Ah yes Brexit means can’t go back and forth and now need a visa for more than the 90 days in a rolling 180 day period. It’s really difficult for you with family to care for in the UK. I wish you luck in the next few years, maybe you can relocate to France.

I know that. However in Germany many benefits are only available after you have paid a certain amount into their system. There are length of residence requirements in local areas before you qualify for social housing, and you need a residence permit which is only valid for 5 years (and you can see how your permit might not get renewed if you require housing although not sure if in practice it worked that way.)

In practice a lot of better off older people are not going to run down their savings and assets to the extent that they would qualify for anything, so the situation is similar to a foreign national who wouldn’t qualify. It would be a dangerous precedent since you need the better off to pay in since they pay the vast majority of taxes.

It’s the same in the UK.
Most legal and all illegal immigrants have NRPF (no recourse to public funds)

If you lost your job, you would do everything you could to get another one, even if was a much lower paid job. Much more preferable to relying on benefits.

In all fairness, people are vile to each other on MN. We don’t have a Reform Government.

When people first arrive here I thought their benefits were paid for by their home country (for EU citizens).

No one gets anything when they first arrive, you need to be in the UK for quite a significant amount of time. Are you thinking of recriprical health agreements?

Yes you can.

In many cases you don’t have to take the HRT.

Look up CAB pages.

I thought that was the case, but it seems it’s not.

There are numerous exceptions, for example the Afghanistan resettlement programmes.
CAB has all of them listed on their website.

It is the case. Afghan resettlement are legal immigrants that meet the very strict criteria for refugee status. It’s only legal refugees that are eligible for some benefits for an initial period because refugees are literally fleeing grave danger with only the clothes on their backs.

Refugees are around 0.8% of all immigration. The rest, you have to get Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) to be eligible for income based benefits. ILR used to take 5 years (advertised time although Home Office processing delays made this more like 7 yrs), now it is 10yrs minimum.

The CAB pages reflect a teeny tiny minority of immigrants. It’s less than 1%.

No, homeless EU citizens (that do not have settled status) are swept off the streets and put on a plane back to their home country. That’s why many of them refuse to go to homeless shelters.

Well, duh, the poster obviously meant AFTER job hunting had failed and if sick/disabled often doesn’t matter what the pay is, you may not be able to do any job.

There are many different groups mentioned there.

It all adds up really quickly.

Pip can be paid, even if you are an investment banker.
If you are fit and well, there are minimum wage jobs, to tide you over.
if you are sick/ disabled, that is a totally different matter.

I think you’d be surprised at how few minimum wage jobs are available these days.