Page 7 | Ann Widdecombe Thread 2

thebrollachan · Yesterday 15:33

Erys · Yesterday 15:24

The fact that you're using statistics about violence to collectively demonize men and trans women is an example of pushing people into getting angry. Domestic violence doesn't happen just to women, and women typically aren't killed for their sex in this country. Women also assault men, and same sex couples assault each other as well, and there's no pathologizing about that. They're simply viewed as abusive partners, but when someone who happens to be a man who hits someone who happens to be a woman. then it's 'violence against woman'. You can see the contradiction in play when the subject of violence against trans people comes up. When a trans person is assaulted or killed, people like yourself come along and say "But who says they were killed for being trans? Maybe it was for another reason." So where does that sentiment go when men hit or kill women? Who says it's because they're women? The fact that it mostly happens in relationships is a testament that men aren't generally just going around assaulting women just for being women. It's not the same as gay bashing.

"Women in the UK have not been killing or threatening to kill trans identified people"

Anti trans people, both men and women, have celebrated the suicides and murders of trans people, whether they personally make threats or not, which was my point. They aren't against violence toward trans people. It's a prejudiced movement. When you trivialize people's trauma and mental health issues regarding their sex as a violent, perverse, woman hating sex fantasy, the way most anti trans people do, then why would you expect anything but a negative response? And violent and extremist rhetoric exists for all causes. Even animal rights activism is full of threats and abuse and at times even terrorist activity. A cause shouldn't be defined by bad behaviour. Anti abortion activism has at least 11 murders associated with it, that doesn't have any bearing on the anti abortion argument or stance. The same applies to everything else, including trans people.

If you're reaction to people who disagree with you is to instantly brand them hateful bigots, then you're the bully in that scenario.

Show quote history

Anti trans people .... have celebrated the suicides and murders of trans people.

Examples?

hihelenhi · Yesterday 15:34

Erys · Yesterday 15:24

The fact that you're using statistics about violence to collectively demonize men and trans women is an example of pushing people into getting angry. Domestic violence doesn't happen just to women, and women typically aren't killed for their sex in this country. Women also assault men, and same sex couples assault each other as well, and there's no pathologizing about that. They're simply viewed as abusive partners, but when someone who happens to be a man who hits someone who happens to be a woman. then it's 'violence against woman'. You can see the contradiction in play when the subject of violence against trans people comes up. When a trans person is assaulted or killed, people like yourself come along and say "But who says they were killed for being trans? Maybe it was for another reason." So where does that sentiment go when men hit or kill women? Who says it's because they're women? The fact that it mostly happens in relationships is a testament that men aren't generally just going around assaulting women just for being women. It's not the same as gay bashing.

"Women in the UK have not been killing or threatening to kill trans identified people"

Anti trans people, both men and women, have celebrated the suicides and murders of trans people, whether they personally make threats or not, which was my point. They aren't against violence toward trans people. It's a prejudiced movement. When you trivialize people's trauma and mental health issues regarding their sex as a violent, perverse, woman hating sex fantasy, the way most anti trans people do, then why would you expect anything but a negative response? And violent and extremist rhetoric exists for all causes. Even animal rights activism is full of threats and abuse and at times even terrorist activity. A cause shouldn't be defined by bad behaviour. Anti abortion activism has at least 11 murders associated with it, that doesn't have any bearing on the anti abortion argument or stance. The same applies to everything else, including trans people.

If you're reaction to people who disagree with you is to instantly brand them hateful bigots, then you're the bully in that scenario.

Show quote history

Ill-informed, non-factual rubbish, once again. I have not seen a single person "celebrate" the death of a trans person. Stop lying. Sorry, but you are projecting. The evidence is not on your side here. Trans women are literally men, often highly misogynistic men, as many of their advocates' quite OPEN and public statements against women demonstrate. Perhaps you should listen to trans people more than you clearly are. And your post is a derail; neither worth my time, or anything to do with Ann Widdecombe, frankly.

If you wish to excuse political violence, violence against women that you think is "deserved" and telling lies to excuse it , that's up to you. I'd prefer to have more integrity and ethics than that, thanks.

As, thank goodness, do many posters here, regardless of political persuasion. I won't be reading your future missives, btw, so I'd suggest not wasting your (or my) time writing them. Pointless fact-free, bigoted nonsense.

rainbowstardrops · Yesterday 15:36

The police are saying that there does not appear to be a risk to the wider public.
As the man was arrested relatively quickly (and since released without charge), I wonder if this is someone well known to her. Otherwise, I’d say the wider public definitely WOULD be at potential risk. She was outspoken but from what I’ve heard from other ‘celebrities’, she’d stand her ground and then move on and have a laugh with you. It’s very sad.

PerkingFaintly · Yesterday 15:37

I think posters trying to shoehorn Dando into this are shit-stirring for drama, to be honest.

Ditto the poster who said "Surely Devon Police have more important things to do than investigate this"

hihelenhi · Yesterday 15:40

PerkingFaintly · Yesterday 15:37

I think posters trying to shoehorn Dando into this are shit-stirring for drama, to be honest.

Ditto the poster who said "Surely Devon Police have more important things to do than investigate this"

Indeed. Some quite pathetic and irrelevant stuff. I suggest scrolling on by.

DontSayItsOver · Yesterday 15:40

This reply has been deleted

Message removed as it refers to a deleted post.

The late Anne Widdecombe said “Nobody has the right to live their lives being protected from offence”.

In her honour, the post stays up.

Boomer55 · Yesterday 15:41

PerkingFaintly · Yesterday 15:37

I think posters trying to shoehorn Dando into this are shit-stirring for drama, to be honest.

Ditto the poster who said "Surely Devon Police have more important things to do than investigate this"

This. Jill Dando was very sad - just a newsreader doing her job.

If Devon police don't find murder a priority, whoever it is, then I really think questions need to be asked. 🙄

But, some on here are so filled with bile and spite, it’s hard to reason with their logic. 🤷‍♀️

beadystar · Yesterday 15:42

chirrupybird · Yesterday 14:28

The problem is you don't walk about with it in your hand all the time with your finger on the trigger and pointed in the right direction. It would be fine if the assailant gave you time to get it out point and spray, but chances are they already hit you twice. And it gives a false sense of safety, I've got my spray so I'm OK going down that dark alley, or cutting through the woods.

Show quote history

I agree with this. I carry a large metal water bottle held by a strap. If it came to it, I could use it like a bat. I have actually seen dodgy looking males eyeing it. Wouldn’t help in a group assault though.

GrandmasCat · Yesterday 15:43

GoneWithTHeWindJammers · Yesterday 12:41

Obviously, you deploy the pepper spray before the assailant grabs it. It's legal to carry pepper spray in New York. I am thinking all women and anyone over 65 should carry pepper spray for defence.

Show quote history

I carried pepper spray in my bag, when studying in the US (used to leave the labs late and had to walk through a dangerous area on my way home). It was more a deterrent charm, something to make me feel safe(r), I knew very well that most people using pepper spray in a bit of a panic spray themselves first especially if there is a tiny little breeze blowing in your direction.

Now, if you have nerves of steel and are attacking an unsuspecting person, it may probably be quite useful.

RoyalCorgi · Yesterday 15:43

Good to see that everyone has taken heed of the police instruction not to speculate online.

This has to be one of the craziest threads I've seen on Mumsnet, but the poster who wrote that the Devon police should have better things to do than investigate murder (LIKE WHAT?) takes the biscuit.

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · Yesterday 15:45

I'm honestly really shocked by this and so sad. Poor Ann :(

ShakyBake · Yesterday 15:47

I've just had a length conversation with my husband Clive, about this. Both of the opinion there is, or will be, a massive cover up

JoshLymanSwagger · Yesterday 15:55

HarrietPierce · Yesterday 15:33

"She was a basically retired fairly frail woman"

I would never describe her as frail. She looked quite robust to me despite being small of stature.

A 78yr old woman who needed a carer?

Not that robust I'd imagine.

JoshLymanSwagger · Yesterday 15:55

RoyalCorgi · Yesterday 15:43

Good to see that everyone has taken heed of the police instruction not to speculate online.

This has to be one of the craziest threads I've seen on Mumsnet, but the poster who wrote that the Devon police should have better things to do than investigate murder (LIKE WHAT?) takes the biscuit.

Quite.

Onmytod24 · Yesterday 15:56

JoshLymanSwagger · Yesterday 15:15

it's ok - I've reported my own post.

I'm so sick of the attitude of some people.

She was an old woman, relying on a carer, living alone in a remote area - looks like she didn't have a car either.

If that was your Auntie, Gran, Mum...?

Imagine being her relative and stumbling over these threads.

Some of the comments are grossly offensive.

Show quote history

I think she would find your comment that she was an older lady reliant on a carer grossly offensive. And by the way, untrue.

FWC2026 · Yesterday 15:57

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

what's more important in your little world than a murder??

JoshLymanSwagger · Yesterday 15:57

beadystar · Yesterday 15:42

I agree with this. I carry a large metal water bottle held by a strap. If it came to it, I could use it like a bat. I have actually seen dodgy looking males eyeing it. Wouldn’t help in a group assault though.

Show quote history

But - and here is the problem with the self-defence/carry something argument...

Do you carry it with you all the time, when you're alone, in your own home?

JoshLymanSwagger · Yesterday 15:58

FWC2026 · Yesterday 15:57

what's more important in your little world than a murder??

Show quote history

Yup - and I both quoted and reported it.

🤷🏻‍♀️

ShakyBake · Yesterday 16:01

RoyalCorgi · Yesterday 15:43

Good to see that everyone has taken heed of the police instruction not to speculate online.

This has to be one of the craziest threads I've seen on Mumsnet, but the poster who wrote that the Devon police should have better things to do than investigate murder (LIKE WHAT?) takes the biscuit.

I'm not sure if your post was aimed at me but I have quite clearly noted, my concern of a cover up is my opinion (and my husband) and my opinion only. Just because I have said that, does NOT mean I have stated it as fact

JoshLymanSwagger · Yesterday 16:02

Onmytod24 · Yesterday 15:56

I think she would find your comment that she was an older lady reliant on a carer grossly offensive. And by the way, untrue.

Show quote history

Sorry for being factual.

Something that so very many posters are not doing on this or the previous thread.

I do believe she would read it as a defence of all vulnerable people of an older vintage who may not be quite up to fighting off an intruder.

ifonly4 · Yesterday 16:02

Choux · Yesterday 15:28

No one is found by an ambulance crew as someone needs to have found the person first to call the ambulance.

If the gardener found her, as reported by the DM, it did occur to me that he might have been the 26 year old arrested. It could be that he had been at the house gardening on Weds afternoon while having no idea that she was dead inside and he just thought she was out. His phone put him in the village on Weds afternoon so he was a suspect. Then the 12.30 time of death came back from post mortem and messaging with the tv team and he could show he was elsewhere at that time so he is no longer a suspect.

Show quote history

I thought this as well, or maybe someone who was doing outside maintenance. Alternatively, could have been someone who knocked on her door for some reason.

Either way, I think the police know more than they can tell us at the moment, and I hope whoever did it is found in the very near future.

JoshLymanSwagger · Yesterday 16:04

DontSayItsOver · Yesterday 15:40

The late Anne Widdecombe said “Nobody has the right to live their lives being protected from offence”.

In her honour, the post stays up.

Show quote history

And still you offend me.
🤷🏻‍♀️

NotDavidTennant · Yesterday 16:05

JoshLymanSwagger · Yesterday 15:55

A 78yr old woman who needed a carer?

Not that robust I'd imagine.

Show quote history

Her having been found be a carer seems to be misinformation. Reports are now that she was found by her gardener.

She was still active in politics as the immigration and justice spokesperson for the Reform Party so she can't have been that frail.

nicepotoftea · Yesterday 16:05

Erys · Yesterday 15:24

The fact that you're using statistics about violence to collectively demonize men and trans women is an example of pushing people into getting angry. Domestic violence doesn't happen just to women, and women typically aren't killed for their sex in this country. Women also assault men, and same sex couples assault each other as well, and there's no pathologizing about that. They're simply viewed as abusive partners, but when someone who happens to be a man who hits someone who happens to be a woman. then it's 'violence against woman'. You can see the contradiction in play when the subject of violence against trans people comes up. When a trans person is assaulted or killed, people like yourself come along and say "But who says they were killed for being trans? Maybe it was for another reason." So where does that sentiment go when men hit or kill women? Who says it's because they're women? The fact that it mostly happens in relationships is a testament that men aren't generally just going around assaulting women just for being women. It's not the same as gay bashing.

"Women in the UK have not been killing or threatening to kill trans identified people"

Anti trans people, both men and women, have celebrated the suicides and murders of trans people, whether they personally make threats or not, which was my point. They aren't against violence toward trans people. It's a prejudiced movement. When you trivialize people's trauma and mental health issues regarding their sex as a violent, perverse, woman hating sex fantasy, the way most anti trans people do, then why would you expect anything but a negative response? And violent and extremist rhetoric exists for all causes. Even animal rights activism is full of threats and abuse and at times even terrorist activity. A cause shouldn't be defined by bad behaviour. Anti abortion activism has at least 11 murders associated with it, that doesn't have any bearing on the anti abortion argument or stance. The same applies to everything else, including trans people.

If you're reaction to people who disagree with you is to instantly brand them hateful bigots, then you're the bully in that scenario.

Show quote history

The fact that you're using statistics about violence to collectively demonize men and trans women is an example of pushing people into getting angry.

I'm sure we would all prefer it if the statistics on male violence were different.

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · Yesterday 16:10

RoyalCorgi · Yesterday 15:43

Good to see that everyone has taken heed of the police instruction not to speculate online.

This has to be one of the craziest threads I've seen on Mumsnet, but the poster who wrote that the Devon police should have better things to do than investigate murder (LIKE WHAT?) takes the biscuit.

💯.
These threads were already starting to take a turn when I stopped reading last night. But Jesus, reading them this afternoon is something else.

I am actually finding it very upsetting the thought that she was lay alone in her house for a whole day before anyone found her. Possibly because until recently I had a beloved, elderly aunt who lived alone and very rurally. It was always in the back of my head the (admittedly very small) chance that someone would break in to her isolated house.