Why would Reform voters accept that they will scrap the NHS?

[NEGUY82]

Even when you present them with pretty undeniable proof they wants to do it they just say "lefty propaganda, he said he won't" - well of course he says he won't it would cost him the election.

I never vote reform but it needs scrapping for the European model. It’s in a right state

It's in a right state because it's going to take time to repair after 14 years of Tory mismanagement, look at satisfaction surveys in 2010 they were record high.

What about people with existing conditions that can't get insurance?

I would vote for a party that would scrap the NHS. It is not fit for purpose and the entire system needs changing. I wasn’t aware that this was a reform policy.

They deny it, but read what happens behind he scenes - the NHS is fine if managed properly. Again, what about people with pre-existing conditions that won't be able to get insurance?

I don’t vote reform.

I’m disabled. The nhs is a mix of great and shit.

i had medical insurance through my work which because it was a group insurance was fine with pre-existing conditions

Because they don’t care. They think it wouldn’t affect them when it would.

The NHS is damaged beyond repair and the sooner people stop pretending otherwise, the better off we will all be

The other EU systems do not leave people uninsured. It is not failing NHS v American model. Once you have lived elsewhere even if only briefly you realise how the NHS rations care with queues which don't exist in better systems.

My work insurance covers pre existing conditions for me and my husband.

Pre existing conditions are covered in other systems. There are Government safety nets as a minimum. But choice of provider means facilities expand to meet demand and everyone gets more timely treatment. In the NHS you have to wait to be the sickest person to get say an operation. NHS plays Russian roulette with our health by keeping us waiting for basic care.

That's correct for the Netherlands. Everyone here must have basic health insurance, or you get fined. The insurance is the same cost for everyone and no one can be excluded. Children go free.

What system are you thinking of regarding people with existing conditions? The US? The European models aren't based on systems where existing conditions preclude you from insurance

What’s the ‘pretty undeniable truth’ you refer to in your OP?

The NHS has never been fine, nor has it ever been managed properly. The best it's ever done is have reasonably short waiting list. Even then the care and outcomes have been worse than Europe.

To be honest, I don't see the NHS as something we respect or treasure. We abuse it, complain about it, it's a bottomless money pit no matter how much money we throw at it. Staff morale is low, staff sickness high, resident doctors complain of low wages and long hours. Newly qualified doctors can't get jobs and are going abroad.

This . The NHS doesn’t work for anyone in any meaningful way and needs ripping up and starting again .

The NHS is unaffordable and unfixable. It’s too big. It’s going to have to change and people will have to pay insurance.

I think this has been unofficially the policy for ages - erode it so that as many people as possible switch to private insurance to avoid the nightmare queues, then at the end push the remaining people over onto a private insurance model once everyone else has accepted it’s the only solution.

Look at what they’ve done with dental care; same model.

It's well documented in studies of facism that people are not considering the impact on themselves so much as on The Other Group that they despise. Whatever their hated Other is, as long as they receive worse treatment.

Hence far right parties only ever campaign on negative platforms, with cuts, excursions, "the country has gone to shit", inciting violence and racism etc. It works. Bad news sells and travels fast.

I think you are right. Do we continue with the unacceptable wait times and often poor levels of care because it's free or do we accept that we have to pay to get a better level of service.

This policy might actually make me more likely to vote for a party (although not Reform in a million years).

The NHS is no longer sustainable or effective.

And you just watch illegal immigration dry up overnight the minute the NHS is no longer free at the point of need.

Take people on Dialysis for example, £500 per treatment - treatment is 3 times a week. How is an ordinary working person supposed to be able to afford £1500 a week? It's more than they earn.

No idea. I'll vote to protect the NHS to the exclusion of all other policies.

Although there are a few other Reform policies that put me off too.

The opposition would have to be far right and far left to make Reform the best of a really bad choice. However, I have hopes for Kemi B. She may continue to improve before 2029.

Do you think there is no one on dialysis in the EU? Of course people are not paying the true costs of the care they receive in all cases. It is not the American model.

Farage wants the American model. In the EU you still need insurance, which you can't get for an existing condition.

Not true. Most EU schemes have Government safeguards. Often the premiums are based on your age, not your conditions. Check out the Netherlands as an earlier poster said.