Why would Reform voters accept that they will scrap the NHS?

[NEGUY82]

Even when you present them with pretty undeniable proof they wants to do it they just say "lefty propaganda, he said he won't" - well of course he says he won't it would cost him the election.

Not for private insurance healthcare they cannot. They may be covered for state care.
In the UK I would dread what that would look like here.

What would you think of a system where NHS treatment never needs insurance, has some modest co-pays, but where there are incentives for people to use private healthcare.

Think of it like moving from a system where the whole country lives in state provided housing regardless of means or preferences, and at no rent, to a mixed housing market with a mix of private and social housing. The govt’s housing budget goes in those who most need it, not on everyone.

Unlike actual housing (which is supply-constrained for stupid reasons), healthcare becomes no longer scarce and rationed becuase new entrants come in to serve those who are able and willing to pay.

Have you lived in a country with US medical style system? I have.

In the US, my SIL had to pay thousands, just for an emergency broken arm.

In Switzerland I paid over £350 a month for the bare minimum insurance, where I had to get preauthorised phone permission regardless of the level of emergency. Couldn't be seen for minor appointments (ear infection etc).

If you've got a spare £6,000 a year for medical insurance, good for you. I don't.

Look at your local Gp or outpatient DNA rate and tell me people value this sainted service.

If people had to pay health outcomes would improve as it would add value. Host a party with drink supplied and see how many half empty glasses and cans at the end of the night. Ask people to bring their own and there less waste.

Yeah in a cost of living crisis let’s start charging people for basic medical care. Can’t see any problems with that!

I suspect most of the ‘NHS doesn’t work’ crowd you have no idea what it’s like to have a chronic (and in other countries expensive!) health problem and I hope for your sake that that remains the case.

spend some time of forums where type 1 diabetics or people with kidney problems in countries with insurance based systems (yes including Europe) talk about it and realise how incredibly lucky we are.

If we move to a private system it will be the exact same service but you have to pay.

the nhs isn’t failing is just propaganda. It’s once of the most efficient healthcare systems in the world. I think only Japan beat us.

Many people can pay £6,000 for healthcare and many people can’t.

Should the govt’s free provision be spread evenly across both groups or be concentrated on the latter group?

The public just will not bear higher taxes needed to do both at a decent level, especially as we continue to age. If they would then this would be a different conversation.

This. No one can seriously think the NHS is working as it is. Endless billions poured into a failing service.

Illegal immigrants don't get free access to the NHS so I am not sure what this means?

Do you mean that immigrants won't be coming here to work in the NHS if it doesn't exist?

I’ll tell you what is true though. The likes of farage and the rich tycoons who run newspapers make no money from the nhs so it is in their interests to stir up the “nhs is rubbish” propaganda so they can start profiting from all our co-pays.

And what are the queues like?
Do they have a better ratio of GPs to patients?

How many times are you going to keep repeating this, despite other people more knowledgeable than you telling you how it works?

Yes, it should be equal. That's the point.

Who do you think Labours PFI trough benefited?

PFI was a dreadful idea and should never have been allowed. It is exactly the kind of thing people should actively campaign against.

I live in Sweden and it does depend to a certain extent where you live - there are a lot more doctors in Stockholm than sparsely populated rural areas but you dont have huge queues. There is the "healthcare guarantee"
-within 24 hours you must be able to make contact with your registered health centre
-within 72 hours you must be assessed by a doctor or other medical professional
-treatment/tests/specialist appointments must be available within 90 days

If your health authority cannot meet the 90 day deadline you are free to apply for care in other health authorities or approved private clinics.

So - for example
DD1 needed an MRI but there was an 6 month waiting list so she had it done 3 weeks later in the neighbouring health authority.

I had a strange growth near my eye which was suspected to be (and was) a cancerous Basal Cell Carcinoma. The waiting time to my hospital was 14 weeks so the GP offered me a referral to a private clinic. I saw the surgeon the Friday 10 days later, and had surgery on the next Tuesday so within 2 weeks of my GP appointment.

Excellent. Had three emergencies with the kids recently.

DS broke his wrist, was seen by the GP within an hour of calling, got sent to hospital. Waited 20 minutes for x-rays, in the end the whole process from calling the GP to being home with a cast took slightly more than 3 hours.

Baby had a funny breathing episode, GP agreed it was suspicious, got sent to hospital, got seen immediately, tests done immediately, nothing serious, sent home quickly.

Baby had an allergic reaction last year, got seen by the GP the same day, got a referral to pediatrician. Within the month got sorted with hospital appointments, blood test, epi pen and special formula, all free of charge.

Grandad fell at home. Called to A&E, they advised us that they were busy and we would have to go to a hospital further afield and wait for callback. Within an hour we got a callback to say they do have a space, ambulance was there quickly, grandad transported to hospital, offloaded to cubicle, got a scan and blood tests, back home by ambulance a couple of hours later.

For the 200 euros I pay per month for me and two kids I can't fault it. Last year I cost them a lot because of pregnancy and an operation with a two night hospital stay. Didn't cost me a thing extra.

For people that have less income there's subsidies that pay for almost all of it.

But why is that the point of our healthcare system? Even if by being unequal both groups could get better and quicker treatment?

Or put a different way: let’s say we could equalize housing by spreading the social housing budget across all households. Everyone would be worse off than now, but no one would be worse off than each other. Should we do it?

The NHS is in a state because parts have already been hived off to private providers who, because they have NHS contracts, put NHS branding on their documents. So people blame the NHS for the shit care they get from these providers, while public money is paid to for profit agencies and taken away from truly NHS services. Stopping this would do a lot to repair the damage from the Tories.

Endless billions of public money Siphoned off to private healthcare companies.

But he has repeatedly said he will ....

Our ageing population makes the NHS model untenable

The average UK tax payer is already paying about 4k per year via taxes for the NHS.

My DM had a knee replacement from a private provider with a NHS contract. She had excellent care - certainly not shit care. So I would disagree - there are many reasons why the NHS is in a state, it's certainly not wholly down to parts being hived off to private providers.

What are you basing that on @Bunnyofhope

We don’t pay enough tax for a state pension & the NHS

We get a lot more bang for our buck with the nhs then we ever would if we went private. We spend less per head than most developed nations on our healthcare.

And the mismanagement was under labour the last time on nonsense management jobs and locums!