What do you think of Lammy's comments on taking the knee?

[ForSnappySwan]

David Lammy has said he wouldn't take the knee for Nowak as it's just symbolism.

He was asked why did he take the knee for George Floyd, and he said it was different then because we were in a pandemic.

What do you think? I think he's right about the first point but don't understand what the knee has got to do with the pandemic.

There was another Labour MP on Newsnight this week who's clearly embarrassed that she took the knee and said something like "it was right then but that's in the past now and we shouldn't go back to it"

Also, would Henry Novak have died if the police got him medical assistance? They may not have stabbed him, but they rejected his claims he'd been stabbed.

Just watched Lammy's LBC interview on this. What an idiot he is. Blaming the pandemic? Come on.

As I understand it, Henry Novak was stabbed 9 times with an 8" knife that looked like a stiletto.
The problem with stab wounds is that they have a small opening and can be very deep. If someone bleeds internally into the chest cavity, for example, very little blood will be visible externally.
Apparently he was bleeding from the mouth, which should have made them question the wisdom of laying him flat on the ground.

It begs the question "do they do First Aid Courses" as well as DEI ones ?

No offence to @IStillHearTheWaves but he facts need to be laid bare to stop this sort of speculation. MSM could do that.

The Judge is crystal clear that the pathologist's evidence was that Henry could not have been saved. Even if paramedics had been on scene in minutes the fatal wound, severed artery, could not have been accessed quickly enough.

It was a massive misjudgement to handcuff him but I think it's almost standard process these days. He was cuffed for less than a minute before the officers realised he was in a very bad way and started CPR.

There will be further investigation on this at the inquest.

I think the IOPC will be on it too.

I think it's different because Floyd's death was representative of institutional police racism and violence, and Nowak's death was the result of awful incompetence and callousness of the individual officers.

What happened to him was appalling, but to pretend on the account of this one incident that the police are 'too woke' and 'anti white' when compared with the masses of wrongful arrests and disproportionate deaths in custody of people of colour reported over decades and decades, it's not justified to treat it the same way.

There is a possibility that handcuffing him did contribute to his death though, which would call the comments by the judge exonerating the police actions into question. Obviously the fault lies with the killer and his family and hopefully these questions will be answered at the inquest but I think it's legitimate to question these things.
I have copied and pasted this from another thread
Could Henry Nowak have survived? Dr. Krzysztof Magier
@DrMagier
, a pediatrician and former honorary consul of the Republic of Poland in Cowes, analyzed footage from a police body camera showing Henry Nowak's death. Dr. Magier heads the pediatric intensive care unit, with experience in combat medicine training and a specialized course in treating severe injuries (including gunshot and stab wounds). He disagrees with the pathologist's and judge's opinion that Henry Nowak had no chance of survival and that handcuffing him essentially changed nothing. On the contrary—there is a high likelihood that the police intervention contributed to his death. He analyzed the autopsy report, which points to damage to the subclavian vein as the main source of bleeding, and explains where the problem lies. In a healthy person, venous bleeding occurs under low pressure and often self-limits thanks to the naturally forming clot, while simply approximating the wound edges and compressing the surrounding tissues closes the vein enough to slow or even stop the bleeding. The body camera footage shows that when police arrived on the scene (likely 5-10 minutes after the injury), Henry was conscious enough to speak quite loudly. He was therefore not yet in a terminal state. After his arms were twisted behind his back and handcuffed, the vein was most likely stretched, the clot torn, and bleeding dramatically intensified. Within just about three minutes, he lost consciousness and died. People with suspected internal injuries should never be moved or yanked abruptly—such actions can destroy the natural clot and lead to massive internal hemorrhage. Instead of immediately calling a medical rescue team and handing the patient over to paramedics, the police handcuffed him. If paramedics had arrived first on the scene, Henry’s chances of survival would have been much higher. "50%"—writes Dr. Magier. Paramedics could have quickly started an IV, administered fluids to increase circulating blood volume, and tranexamic acid to stabilize the clot, and if needed, performed needle decompression (inserting a large, long needle into the lung), because the issue wasn’t so much lack of lung function, but compression of the blood-filled lung on the heart and mediastinum, which blocks circulation. Worse still, the incident took place just a few minutes' drive by car (2–3 minutes by ambulance with sirens) from Southampton University Hospital—a regional Major Trauma Centre equipped with a full team of specialists, procedures, and equipment. "I am convinced that if Henry had arrived there alive, the doctors would not have let him die"—writes Dr. Magier. In summary: the aggressive police intervention, instead of saving a life, led to death through improper handling of a severely injured person, even though world-class care was just minutes away. "I fear the Judge and pathologist were too lenient toward the police"—writes Dr. Magier.
Based on this there is a possibility, despite the delay by the family in calling the police, that had the police accepted Henry claim of being stabbed and called an ambulance, he might have survived, especially as the hospital was only 5 minutes away.

It’s not just one incident though. The girls abused by the rape gangs in Rotherham and elsewhere were also ignored and disbelieved by police who often believed the abusers .

Sorry, but no similarity.

I’m not claiming the situations are similar in every respect but they are both situations which suggest that the police are overly concerned about accusations of racism and this affects their judgment.
I was responding to
“What happened to him was appalling, but to pretend on the account of this one incident that the police are 'too woke' and 'anti white' when compared with the masses of wrongful arrests and disproportionate deaths in custody of people of colour reported over decades”

it’s not just one isolated instance of police ignoring the allegations of a white victim.

Edited for xlarity

That’s not quite accurate. While prejudice cannot be ruled out as a contributing factor it’s not the only one.

Other differences include BMI, pre-existing conditions such as diabetes, poverty rates, some heart conditions, communication barriers and a prejudice within certain communities against allowing state-sponsored intervention.

The statistics quoted include deaths related to domestic abuse, and there too there can be differences in prevalence between communities.

I think there are far bigger issues to discuss.

I agree. The authorities were very hasty in their assessment that Henry could not have been saved, even if he'd been treated appropriately as a victim of stabbing, instead of as a racist criminal.

I find it very suspicious and the MSM being so quick to go along with this is very dubious too.

The internal injuries through which he bled to death could not have been accessed treated even if paramedics had been on the scene immediately.

Why do you think you know better than the medics who gave evidence at trial?

The inquiry will still look at this. Look at what had been said today by the Nottingham parents and families. Systemic failure.

He was asked why did he take the knee for George Floyd, and he said it was different then because we were in a pandemic.

I think we all know the difference! It was always a stupid gesture, especially as it referred to an event in another country but it gave the extremists yet another excuse to throw their accusations about if one didn't allow oneself to be bullied into it.

Quite clear to anyone with a modicum of intelligence that the post does not say his killing was justified, just that his criminality placed him in that situation. The police's actions made a saint from a sinner.

100% this. He would be taking the knee if enough other politicians did it.

He was doing it both for the initial cause AND because it was fashionable. He would be doing it again if it were fashionable again.

He definitely was not doing it to bravely make a stand, as it is not remotely brave, zero bravery required, if everyone else is doing it and doing it means you escape scrutiny whereas not doing it would mean hard questions and going against the grain.

I agree. They are jumping on any plausible argument to protect the police officers in question.

I understand it is very hard to be a police officer and difficult to recruit when officers on the beat making the wrong judgement call then have to face possible accusations of being causative in someone’s death.

But that doesn’t mean I’m going to hear a court case clear police officers of wrongdoing and assume it is always correct. There are many many medical experts or even doctors who make mistakes and get it wrong, the expert in this case could be among them.

Yes, but for me it's the officer's training that's in the wrong, as much as the officers themselves. I'd rather see their race action plans being reviewed than see a couple of lowly plods thrown under the bus. They need to police without fear or favour.

Yes to this. And it is bigger than this still as seen in the press conference today re Nottingham. It’s the kind of failings that are now pervasive across institutions and services.

David Lammy thinks that men have ovaries, just ignore.

The point is that the police actually murdered Floyd. They did not murder Novak.

I think politicians like Lammy are wildly naive to have taken the knee for George Floyd but make a point to refuse for Nowak.
At this point, I’m starting to think they are purposely engineering civil unrest.